"Where are all the ducks?"

[fishingguy]

I and a couple buddies got in a conversation over the weekend. You know the one, you and your hunting buddies all have talked about recently. "Where are all the Ducks?" Though we all had different ideas on the why's and where's. One Question was possed than none of us could answer.

"Why is it minnesota can hatch and raise, not great, but a fair number of pheasants? Hatch and raise near record numbers of canada geese? Hatch and raise grouse? Even hatch and raise hungarian partridge? But can't hatch and raise ducks anymore?"

The over lying question we all had was, why geese and not ducks?

What you all think? Thoughts?

[dan z]

I think all the towns are growning and we are pushing the ducks out of the area. new roads and not enough water. it a ton of things I just keep the faith and hope the next time I go hunting is going to be the best hunting day of my life. and you know what that has happened twice this year! so there must not "lack of DUCKS" or geese for that matter. unless you have a billion dollars live life and stop crying about they aint no ducks I just read a report with limits in nicollet county so SHUT UP!

[fishingguy]

dan z, Sorry! I'm not trying to bring you down man! hehe!

It was just a real interesting question. Thought it would make good conversation and subject to discuss.

[chub]

No use in getting owly about it, as it is a legitimate question. Got a buddy over by Webster SD at the moment. He called and said I simply would not believe it. The number of birds there boggles the mind. The locals are telling him that the Mallards pulled off an incredible hatch.

As to why isn't western Mn pulling off decent hatches anymore......

Population of humans has shrunk I would be willing to bet. They've got water. While not a boatload of CRP and prairie, there are areas that have a decent amount. There's no reason that there should not be a ton of ducks being hatched and raised out there.

Shouldn't say there's no reason. There is, and I would really like to know what it is.

[dan z]

just tired of the phrase "were are all the ducks" sorry for the rant

[chub]

I should add, that I've done well hunting so far this year. Shooting birds is generally not the problem. Seeing numbers of birds on the other hand.......

[broken_line]

umm hiding.. the north wind, cold, to many hunters, dry times, farmers, bla bla bla.. its hunting not shooting.. praise what you get and dream about what you want to get..

[SledNeck]

worst year waterfowling ever for me this year. Not even worth getting up early.

[GottaGo]

As for the question why geese and not ducks, I think geese are more adaptable than ducks. If we rip down a prarie and make a golf course out of it, the geese will still use the ponds there and just change their diet to accommadate the change. I think most ducks are not very comfortable if there's a lot of human activity around. Mallards and wood ducks might tolerate it if they have to, but i think most species would rather just up and move and find a new place to live.

[walleyehunter80]

wow dan z thats awesome! cant believe I just read that! if your sick of reading about people wondering where the ducks are.............. DONT open a post TITLED "Where are all the ducks?"

[delta dude]

Western minn has no big city sprawl, not many new housing areas and plenty of water and there still are no birds. All this poor hunting came about say the last 15 years. What changed, who knows. But really what have we done to help ducks? On most wpa's there are no nesting platforms nor wooduck houses. Looks to me on the ones I hunt there is not much to eat also. State has a big mouth on how they have a plan to bring back the ducks. Talk is cheap, lets see some action.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

I would be willing to bet the low, low, low fur prices have alot to do with low duck numbers. Just think of how many egg eating, duckling eating opossums, skunks, coons, fox, mink, ect.... Trappers take in good fur price years. Years like the last had low prices and the poor forecast for this year keeps alot of trappers off the line.

[BrdHunter01]

IMO its fairly simple.... The geese have adapted to the city life, the ducks have not. You could name every other excuse in the book but conflicts will always arise if your trying to answer the question "why geese and not ducks?" So ill say again.... Its pretty simple.... The geese have adapted to the city life, the ducks have not. I believe some day the ducks will turn around and adapt to the new habitat like the geese have, but it won't be in my lifetime...

[BrdHunter01]

As for the question why geese and not ducks, I think geese are more adaptable than ducks. If we rip down a prarie and make a golf course out of it, the geese will still use the ponds there and just change their diet to accommadate the change. I think most ducks are not very comfortable if there's a lot of human activity around. Mallards and wood ducks might tolerate it if they have to, but i think most species would rather just up and move and find a new place to live.

Agree 100% Sorry did not read all the posts before posting myself... I believe this is right on

[jdog]

i dont know how anyone can say ducks dont adapt to the city life havent you drove around the freeways in and seen all the ducks in the small ponds off the cloverleafs i was in out west for the duck opener and it was my worst opener ever but when i came home to the cities i seen way more birds on the small ponds

[MNTwinsFan]

I believe some part of the equation is the growth of Devil's Lake over the past 15 years and the resulting shift of the flyway to the West.

[BrdHunter01]

i dont know how anyone can say ducks dont adapt to the city life havent you drove around the freeways in and seen all the ducks in the small ponds off the cloverleafs i was in out west for the duck opener and it was my worst opener ever but when i came home to the cities i seen way more birds on the small ponds

Never said the ducks ARE NOT adapting. All I'm saying is they are not adapting as fast as the geese have or as efficient as the geese have for that matter. Not even close!

I do believe they are adapting just not in the same way as geese....

[DIESELDAN]

I think lack of nesting cover, predators ie skunks, possoms,racoons and raptors (no not the dineasor kind) along with drain tiling away so many wetlands. making the remaining ones deeper because of the concentration of water, and therefore capable of supporting roughfish which kills off most vegation has shifted the whole flight further west JMO. I think it will take some improvement in all of these areas to see bird numbers make at least a modest rebound. The goose numbers not being hurt so much because geese are better at protecting there eggs and young from predators (have two defenders instead of one). Feed on land more (lack of vegatation not as big of an issue). So I think there young have a higher surival rate. No real facts here just my opinion. All this said I'd still rather be out hunting than just about anything else.

[Ufatz]

Hey fellas, there is no need to speculate about the reasons. There are numerous reports by State and Federal biologists and managers that will tell you the flyway has simply shifted to the West. Might it come back East?...who knows if or when. Minnesota has done a great job of draining potholes and farming right to the edge of roadways, which does not help the situation, but that is not the total reason. This year lots of water in NDak and I can tell you, since I just left there, that there are ducks,geese and cranes everywhere you look!! It is a sight to see.

In short: there is no single reason other than the shift of the flyway to the West and only the ducks really know the reason for that.

[candiru]

Another one might be what crops are being grown. In MN just about everything is in corn or soybeans. DU. is encouraging farmers in the Dakotas and Canada to plant winter wheat because ducks have success nesting in it.

[Heartman]

Flights shifts in the northern Mississippi Flyway have been documented for many years. Single variable that most affects this shift? Water, or lack thereof. More water in Dakotas = more ducks in Dakotas; more water in Minnesota = more ducks in Minnesota.

Plain and simple. Habitat issues, sure, but without water, nothing grows.

[chub]

Hey fellas, there is no need to speculate about the reasons. There are numerous reports by State and Federal biologists and managers that will tell you the flyway has simply shifted to the West. Might it come back East?...who knows if or when.

[B. Amish]

increased fall fishing on historic staging lakes. ducks don't like getting pushed around when they're resting.

Mn has more hunting pressure. ND and SD has less. ducks will choose the path of least resistance.

poor nesting conditions in Mn. it's one thing to have water, but another to have adequate nesting cover. dabblers don't really nest in cattails (contrary to what a lot of people think). they will, but the large majority prefer grass. Mn doesn't have enough of it. and the stuff we do have is in poor shape, too many trees, too many predators.

our large type 3's, 4's and 5 wetlands are in pitiful condition. pea green water, minnows, carp, excess sediment, hybrid cattails, no shrimp, turned into bait ponds, excess disturbance from bait dealers. these used to be our gold mine for hunting. most are now drained, or degraded beyond the point of no return.

the ditches and tiles have interconnected almost every wetland in western MN. even if a wetland freezes out in the winter, the minnows are right back in there the next spring during spring runoff. they swim up the county ditch from the river and into the ponds. they can travel through tile lines under ground, i've seen it.

corn and soybean rotations are disastorous for water quality. we used to have more perenenial crops like alfalfa that held soil on the land. less cover crops like oats and wheat also mean one less place for ducks to try and nest.

geese like green lawns and open water. they can nest over water on top of muskrat huts and beaver houses. they can defend their nest against predators. we've increased the kind of habitat that they like.

[311Hemi]

poor nesting conditions in Mn. it's one thing to have water, but another to have adequate nesting cover. dabblers don't really nest in cattails (contrary to what a lot of people think). they will, but the large majority prefer grass. Mn doesn't have enough of it. and the stuff we do have is in poor shape, too many trees, too many predators.

Habitat!

[Chef]

I wonder--How much loss we can attribute to the rampant and gross over-killing south of the US Border?

Zero regulation down there folks.

One can of Worms Open and ready for debate!