Cull buck

[WaitForIt]

I see people talking from time to time about whether a certain substandard buck should be culled from the herd. Of course, its been well established that you CANNOT influence genetics in a free ranging herd anyway, but lets put that aside for a sec.

Look what happens to this 'cull' buck:

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Makes you think

[Powerstroke]

Can't post a link Dan. You gotta post the pictures.

[sticknstring]

I don't believe in "cull bucks". If a deer reaches 5 1/2 yrs old, he's going to sport a pretty darn nice rack. Might not be P&Y but who cares. I've seen spikes turn into book bucks at 2 1/2 too. Lets see some pics.

[buckhunter21]

I dont believe in culling bucks either. I think any buck will sport a pretty darn nice rack if given the chance to grow to its full potential. I could see people doing in other states but at least in our state and the surrounding ones I have yet to see a 4.5+ year old deer that didnt have a respectable rack.

[tunrevir]

We manage our property in Wisc for trophy (potential) bucks and have an intesive management plan which includes culling bucks and does. That being said, the bucks we are culling are 130-150 class deer that are in the 4 1/2-6 1/2 year old class, not the spikes, forks, basket sixes and eights. These are deer we are seeing on camera and on the hoof that have not sported a set of larger antlers in a two to three year span. We can identify alot of these bucks from the racks year to year and from other distinguishing characteristics. We keep photo files and refer to them from one year to the next and decide as a party whether we attempt to harvest them or not. This scenario doesn't always work to our advantage because we have had younger deer with better antler characteristics and potential run off the property by these older more mature animals only to be shot on adjacent land. It is very difficult to manage wild deer for trophy potential but passing up littler deer to see what they can develope into after 3-4 years does pay of in the long run. We cull does to keep the buck to doe ratio down. This again poses some challenges. You don't know if a doe is past her prime, has trophy genetic makeup to pass on to her offspring ect,ect. Our hunting party decides what deer we can (possibly) shoot and which ones are off limits, the doe culling typically occurs before they are bred throughout the archery season. One downside to letting older animals go from year to year with a herd ratio of about 2 does/1 buck is there is increased competition and this can lead to mortality through turf wars and more broken racks. To cull? I think that it really comes down to each individuals choice as to what they want to harvest, there are alot of meat hunters out there that it doesn't matter if the deer has huge antlers or is a doe, they just want food for the table. It is very difficult to manage free ranging deer and we have yet to see any of our herd go over the 160" mark.

Tunrevir~

[Bear55]

I don't believe in "cull bucks". If a deer reaches 5 1/2 yrs old, he's going to sport a pretty darn nice rack. Might not be P&Y but who cares. I've seen spikes turn into book bucks at 2 1/2's too. Lets see some pics!

I Agree stick, I don't believe in them either. I have seen plenty of large 6 pointers I would put on my wall. Just because they don't have a ton of points doesn't stop them from being a huge buck.

[sticknstring]

Here's a so called "cull" buck at 3 1/2 - 5 1/2 that I "borrowed" from another HSOforum. If you're only into antlers, you probably would've decided to take this buck at 4 1/2 since he only put on around 10" of antler. But I have a hard time finding many guys that would pass on him as a 5 1/2 because his antlers are too small. Like what's already been stated, you cannot alter the genetics of the free-ranging heard so why try? Let them grow to maturity and kill them toads! Who culls 6 1/2 yr olds anyway? I can safely say across the 2-3 properties I primarily hunt in MN, I've never seen even a 5 1/2 from the stand. This year we have a confirmed 4 1/2 on trail cams but nobody's seen him yet. Deer at this age get pretty cagey. If you get one encounter during shooting light, consider yourself lucky.

[Bear55]

Nice pics stick, that buck might not be big enough for some but I bet 99% of hunters would be thrilled to shoot him.

Also if you are culling 4-6 year olds those deer have been doing a lot of the breeding so you aren't realy eliminating their genes.

I think its just impossible to manage any kind of genetics without putting the deer into pens.

[WaitForIt]

Good to see that you guys 'get it' with regards to culling. My point (I'll repost pics later) is that you can't tell ANYTHING by looking at a 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer. By and large, give them time and they will get respectable.

A 6.5 yr buck is a trophy no matter what size or how odd the antlers are - that is a true survivor among deer and you have to be a heck of a hunter or very lucky to take a buck (or doe for that matter) of that age.

[96trigger]

Last year my cousing shot a buck that grossed 140, his rack was not symmetrical and all we could figure out is that he was a "cull buck" that just got old. This buck would have more than likely hung on anybody's wall. It was a prime example of what age will do to those bucks that people always say they need to "cull".

[HOT SPOT]

I think it can work if you are in the right situation. Ya you cant tell how big they will be when they get into there prime, but you do no that they are slow growers and if you have a high buck to doe ratio that you dont want a slow growing 3.5 yr old breeding all your does when you could have a nother 3.5 yr old with good genetic doing it. You have to remeber buck will fight till death and the bigger racked one doesnt always win.

[vister]

if you havent had anything go over 160, why are you culling 150 class deer. makes no sense

i believe without quality genetics, bucks are still able to produce 130 inches or more. genetics come into play after they hit the 160 mark. now i know several hunters havent, but would be thrilled to take a 130 class whitetail. ive got a few of em as 8 pointers, and they are very respectable. no way would i have shot them just to get them out of the herd.

if you're after antlers, you HAVE to let em go, let em grow. in my experience, thats the only way they get bigger!

[HOT SPOT]

I think its kinda one of those weird deals to. I have a pic Of a absoulte MONSTER 5.5yr old 6 pter that I would shoot before a 140 in 10 pter but his brother "according to my neighbors that they are brothers" went 182 in and was the biggest mn archary buck shot in 08. Ya they both are hug deer but as a 6pter it will score like [PoorWordUsage].

[Bear55]

They way I see it is I don't really care about score as much as shooting a large mature buck. For example this buck doesn't score well but who really cares, he's a beast!!

[bigbucks]

Agreed, my goodness that's a HUGE 6 pointer!

[HOT SPOT]

that actually looks just like the buck I have the pic of. Where you shoot him at?

[sticknstring]

Big clean 6's & 8's are pretty impressive. Here's another...

[Bear55]

that actually looks just like the buck I have the pic of. Where you shoot him at?

Sorry I forgot to mention that wasn't my deer, just a pic I found of a nice big 6.

[HOT SPOT]

bummer, I would like to no. I have not seen him this yr so that made wonder if he got shot.

[Bear55]

I checked out the HSOforum where I found the photo, looks like a Michigan deer so hopefully your monster 6 is still out there.

[HOT SPOT]

Ya me to I also go a pic of one that looks like the six but has 4 or 5 pts on the right side and hard to tell on the left. Hopefully i can at least see one of them

[fletcher]

I give credit to deer managers,,,,nothing wrong with letting them walk,,,,,,but I have ran into too many folks who claim management then shoot just any buck and then claim "cull buck"

I have seen QDM work especially if you get a "neighborhood" to buyin,,,,a few years you would be surprised what a difference it can make. If folks start showing each other monster bucks on gamecams it can rally support and build confidence,,,sometimes friendly competition based on bucks that are still alive not dead...............ground shrinkage is inevitable dont claim cull

[Bear55]

One other thing to think about before starting some kind of cull buck program is it won't work unless you hunt behind high fences. Ever year the buck fawns disperce and end up finding their own territory many miles away from where they grew up. So you can cull every buck you want but it won't do much good when your genetics are coming from many miles away. If you do happen to have some buck with good genetics in your area all of their fawns will end up moving out the area. Not worth the trouble in my opinion, especially when we only get one buck tag a year.

[InTheNorthwoods]

In order to effectively "cull bucks" you have to let them reach maturity, or at least 4.5 years of age. I would guess that less than 10-20% of all bucks in the state of MN ever reach that age. Studies have shown that it is nearly impossible to accurately cull out inferior genetics in a wild herd.

I find that most people who claim they are "culling bucks" are just calling it that to boost their egos after they already shot a young or smaller buck. (I have no problem with people shooting what makes them happy.)

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I find that most people who claim they are "culling bucks" are just calling it that to boost their egos after they already shot a young or smaller buck. (I have no problem with people shooting what makes them happy.)

It's to make them sound like all of the "Pros" and "Biologists" thay have on the ODN or VS. that claim to know how to "Properly" manage a deer herd. Too bad the herds these so called "Pros" manage are trapped inside a great wall of fencing.