Denard Span

[CodyDawg]

I got to thinking the other day, why does Span get a free ride in all the Twins conversations? he is corner outfielder who is hitting .288 with 6 homers and 6 (yes, 6) doubles. Six! how can he have only 6 doubles? Heck, Delmon Young has 6 doubles in way, WAY less at bats (354 to 217). He doesnt hit for power, his average is okay, his OBP is .373...good but nothing to brag about. For all the guys complaining about Cuddy, Span is much worse IMO. As a corner outfielder, he should be producing a LOT more I think.

[ozzie]

he gets deep into counts and plays great d and makes a fraction of what Cuddyer makes......that is why he doesn't get the same amount of c r a p that cuddy gets........$$$$$$$$$ money homeboy!!

[fishyguy]

He is a centerfielder playing in left because Delmon is incapable at the present time. It would be nice if he had a few more extra base hits but he is here to be our leadoff hitter, which means getting on base, working counts, stealing bases and basically setting the table for the boys behind him, and he does those things fairly well, in addition to playing stellar defense. If Delmon would start showing more plate discipline with some consistent defense I think you would find Span in center and Gomez on the bench for late inning defense and running.

[SledNeck]

Delmon isnt hitting bad, and he'll just get better with more at bats.

whats Gomez hitting, .238? enough said

[Jarrod32]

As Delmon matures as a hitter, he will be a much better hitter than Span. Heck, Gomez has more upside than Span once he matures. You are seeing Span at his best. Gomez and Young will both surpass him as hitters within another full season.

Span will be an excellent, prototypical fourth outfielder. He can play all positions, give you some good at bats, and play good defense. If the Twins can keep this group of outfielders together...and I hope they can...eventually it will be an outfield of Young, Gomez, and Cuddyer with Span as the fourth and playing probably three or four games per week, giving each of the other guys a day off.

[PierBridge]

Intersting takes guys very interesting!

I'll have to think about this one a bit!

[zepman]

Jarrod32...I disagree with everything in your entire post. My take on D. Young is the same as my take on T-Jack...they may have all the physical tools and "potential" but they just don't and will never get it.

That's an interesting stat on Span though.

[Stratosman]

I think Young hit over .300 for July... There is alot of upside for Delmon if he chooses to try to improve himself.

My opinion is that Span as well as Gomez and Delmon will improve offensively. I like span and think he does a great job at the leadoff position, maybe not the prototypical leadoff guy, but I like him there.

[solbes]

Wow, how could we call out Span this year?!? Out of the 4 outfielders we have, I'll take Span number one. He's a tough out and has a good eye. His OBP is the best among the 4 at .373 with how many walks he draws (44 vs Gomez at 17 and Young at 7!!!). He's young but already shows a lot of maturity at the plate. He is an excellent fielder. His salary is low. He's about the only guy on the team qualified to be a leadoff hitter.

I'll take Cuddyer #2 for his power, batting average, and OBP. He's got a heck of an arm. If he could stop striking out in key situations, he'd be a lot more valuable. His salary isn't a huge concern for me if he could improve just a little in two strike counts.

It's a really tough call on who you play at 3 or 4. Young has all this hitting potential, but seems to fall short. He's kind of the direct opposite of Denard Span in maturity at the plate, fielding, etc. Gomez is a guy you would love to see play more, but he needs to improve his OBP. If his average remains low, he needs to have a better eye and draw some walks. He's a real weapon once he gets on the base paths.

[CodyDawg]

Well Jarrod32, I think you nailed it. I think Span is a 4th outfielder as well. I just cannot get over 6 doubles. Span is just okay at everything, not really good at anything and pretty poor in some areas. Now compare him to some of the others and he looks pretty good in places, but as a corner outfielder, we cant have a guy with 6 doubles.

I would like to see Delmon get some more at bats. He has the highest ceiling of anyone out there, Cuddy included.

[fishorgolf]

Your kidding right?

of the 4 outfielders Span is:

#2 in RBI's

#1 in BB

#1 in OBP

What more do you want from your lead off hitter? Oh yea I forgot, more doubles.

LOL

[Stratosman]

Yeah that's crazy talk! Ignore the doubles and who do you like the best? #2 in RBI's and leads off...

[greebs]

Disagree with initial post in this thread big time.

Sure, he's no ricky henderson, but consider his stats relative to the team:

4th in avg. amongst the 'regular' starters

3rd in runs scored

3rd in hits

6th in rbi's

2nd in walks

1st in stolen bases

6th in strikeouts

Considering who bats in front of him, it's no surprise he doesn't have many rbi's since many at bats nobody is on base for him to drive in. And considering that he plays most every day, that there's 5 players ahead of him with more strikeouts, that isn't bad at all.

I'd rate him as probably our #1 most efficient player on the team when you consider what we do get out of him relative to what he gets paid..

[jigging-matt]

I suppose we could play Young more, and hope he hits more, because his defense it horrid compared to Span. The fact than with all other problems this team has had this year Span has been one of the bright spots with his being leadoff and playing great defense, wherever they put him. I wish he was just our everyday centerfielder over Gomez. I get so tired of watching gomez trying to hit one out of the park with almost every swing. Some days I would rather see Kubel in the OF instead of Young.

[CodyDawg]

Your point is taken....but you are comparing him to our outfielders who are horrid for the most part. And if you are giving him a pass on RBIs cuz no one is on base, then you better also take away his Runs Scored stats as look who hits behind him (he basically has the Triple Crown batting behind him). If he gets on and doesnt fall down, he will almost always score.

Remember I am saying compared to what a corner outfielder should produce, I think he is only so-so at best.

[CodyDawg]

Greebs,

He has a .384 slugging percentage. Good for 6th out of 6 true major leaguers in our lineup. I dont think he can pound his chest and say "I have a better slugging percentage than Nick Punto!". Heck, I can almost say that!

Bottom line, he does some things okay, mebbe even a shade of good, but it is sad that we are happy to have that type of production out of our outfielders as he is a 4th outfielder on a championship caliber team.

A couple of quick stats:

He is 47th in Americal League outfielder in slugging percentage... there are only 42 starters....38th in extra base hits and 37th in OPS.

He is 31st in OBP (all players), which sounds good until you consider that your leadoff guy should have one of the highest OBP. I couldnt sort by leadoff hitters. He is 9th compared to OFs in the AL.

So he is a singles hitter by the purest sense of the term who gets on base a decent amount of time, but is not outstanding by any means. By the way, I always thought Ichiro was the stereotypical singles hitter, but even he has a slugging percentage of .469.

[solbes]

Maybe we're just arguing to argue; it is the internet afterall Denard has a whopping 1.5 years of MLB experience. I'm going to say he's had an excellent start to his young career. I think you have to factor in experience when you start comparing him to the rest of the league and the rest of the AL outfield.

He's a career .291 average and has a .380 OBP. He can play the entire outfield if asked, has made some highlight type reel plays. He's got 35 stolen bases to his name. He hits lead-off which a lot of guys just aren't cut out for (Remember last years Gomez experiment?). And lastly he gets paid $435k. Could he improve yes, but he's not the reason why we struggle to stay above .500.

[SledNeck]

I think span belongs in the line-up. He has good atbats and seems to get on base alot.

[fishyguy]

Greebs,

So he is a singles hitter by the purest sense of the term who gets on base a decent amount of time, but is not outstanding by any means. By the way, I always thought Ichiro was the stereotypical singles hitter, but even he has a slugging percentage of .469.

Ichiro's slugging % is about .100 higher than his average. Span's slugging is about .100 higher than his average. It doesn't take a whole lot of power to have a .469 slugging % when your average is at .370.

Why we are worried about a leadoff hitters slugging % is beyond me anyway. I am worried about his OBP, steals, and defense. The whole thing that he needs to have more power because he is playing in left out of necessity is silly, in my opinion. Teams need speed, defense, power and guys to get on base. Who cares what position does what as long as the different parts are there?

[greebs]

I should preface my comments with the fact that we are talking about the twins and a low overall payroll. Keep in mind that we typically only have a handful of players that make mid to higher salaries compared to the rest of the league, so how he compares to other outfielders in the A.L may be on the low side. But f you compare him to our other outfielders I do think he's our best value of those players. His numbers are not that far off from Cuddy who as we know makes 15 - 20 times Span's salary. And he's much more reliable than Gomez and Young, who make about the same salary.

If I were a fan of say they yanks or red sox who probably pay all their outfielders in the millions, I could see where Span would be one of the weaker links on the team but on the twins where he's only about the 20th highest paid player on the entire roster and knowing we only have payroll to have just a couple of all stars on the team, what he gives us is very good in my opinion.

[PierBridge]

I think span belongs in the line-up. He has good atbats and seems to get on base alot.

That's an understatement.

I have to believe he's our best all around outfielder by a long shot and I expect him to only get better.

I wish I could say the same for the others.

Cuddy is what he is and I don't expect a whole lot more improvement from here on out. He's adequate at best.

Delmon may become a good hitter some day he seems to have some natural ability unfortunately in-spite of his average he's a POOR all round hitter and I don't see a lot of that changing anytime soon. We won't go into his defense because its just not going to happen. He's a DH for the rest of his career IMO.

GoGo ...ufffda he needs a few years and maybe he'll come around so I'm not throwing in the towel just yet but it doesn't look all that good for that happening any time soon at this point anyway.

So..

1.Span

2.Cuddy

with Delmon and Gomez tied for 4th...

We have as good a defensive outfield as there is but were lacking in some key offensive areas.

Good thread!

[SkunkedAgain]

My feeling is that Span produces and that's what counts. He's not great, but he's one of the best we've got in the outfield. A MLB team is not for player development. Gomez and Young should be in AAA "getting more at-bats" and not causing this kind of discussion.

All a player needs to do for me is produce for me right now, and that's what Span does. I hope the other two can pull it together.

[CodyDawg]

Greebs,

You really made the point I was trying to make. Yes, he is the best value we have in the OF. He is our 2nd best OFer. But when you look at him compared to what a championship caliber team has, you have to realize, we ain't even close. To be happy with his production is kinda sad really. I never said he was terrible, just that he is the one of the 2 best we got and it really aint that good. Average I guess and most Twins fans are happy with that. Then again, we have never had a really good LF.

[Dave S]

Give Span time. I agree with what Greebs has been saying. Especially with Span not having the RBI count due to the batters lined up infront of him. Also, for anyone to discredit his runs? He wouldn't be scoring any runs if he wasn't getting on base to begin with. Not to mention the steals that he has gotten.

IMO, Span is among a couple players who offer the best bang for the buck in both the AL and NL.

When Delmon was brought into the twins org. he was going to be our next power hitter to help bolster what Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer and Kubel are doing. I haven't seen that happen yet.

[Jarrod32]

Give Span time. I agree with what Greebs has been saying. Especially with Span not having the RBI count due to the batters lined up infront of him. Also, for anyone to discredit his runs? He wouldn't be scoring any runs if he wasn't getting on base to begin with. Not to mention the steals that he has gotten.

IMO, Span is among a couple players who offer the best bang for the buck in both the AL and NL.

When Delmon was brought into the twins org. he was going to be our next power hitter to help bolster what Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer and Kubel are doing. I haven't seen that happen yet.

So you are ready to dump Young and Gomez because you haven't seen them perform to their potential yet...but you say "Give Span time".

You want to be patient with Span, but are ready to throw Young and Gomez under the bus? Span is 25 years old, and Gomez and Young are each 23. You are wanting to give the wrong guy more time. Span isn't going to improve nearly as much in the next two years as Young and Gomez will.