Zone 3 changes......

[Musky Buck]

Those were the same points I made about old zone 4 trigger, 2 day 1st weekend, 4 day second weekend, and then 5 days without much but bow and arrow pursuit let them not go completely nocturnal, which now in zone 2 meant better organize a drive or you won't see a deer or very many. With all the bow and goose and pheasant hunters in the area nowaday to the deer are already field nocturnal where I hunt by rifle opener.

[lichen fox]

Here's how it ended up when it headed to the Governor last nite....

Looks like they at least made the antler point restrictions make more sense...instead of two points...it's now at least 4 points .... ON ONE SIDE!! So, as it reads...You'll have to let that 130 class 3 X 3 walk if you see him on the last two days of 3A...UNLESS you've shot a doe already...then you can blast away!

Sec. 68. ZONE 3 DEER SEASON AND RESTRICTIONS; 2009.

For the 2009 deer season, notwithstanding rules of the commissioner of natural resources under Minnesota Statutes, section 97B.311, paragraph (a), the commissioner shall allow a nine-day early A season in Zone 3 beginning the Saturday nearest November and a nine-day late B season in Zone 3 beginning the Saturday nearest November 20. During the last two days of the 2009 early A season in Zone 3, a person may not take antlered deer unless the deer has at least four points on one side, or the person has taken an antlerless deer prior to taking the antlered deer during the early A season in Zone 3. Party hunting for antlered deer under Minnesota Statutes, section 97B.301, subdivision 3, is not allowed in the last two days of the 2009 early A season in Zone 3. Zone 3 is defined in Minnesota Rules, part 6232.1400, subpart 3.

[96trigger]

So, now that it passed, does it have to go through the DNR? Or are we locked in? Still not sure about the reasoning behind this. I don't see this having the desired effect, only setting us back.

Let me get this straight. Many people want to see larger bucks and have been trying to get some kind of management for age structure. So, we are now going to give them an extra weekend to kill more bucks????? I don't get it at all. Also, what is going to be the plan for does during 3A, will their be over the counter tags for does so people can get a management doe tag for 3A? I already know wich way I am leaning for deer hunting next year. Its too bad, I don't see the logic in this at all. I'm hoping that next year, it is antler restrictions all the way, otherwise, I feel that we have taken a step in the wrong direction.

[lichen fox]

First it goes to the governor...and I really think he'll sign it...then it's in the hands of the DNR and thier rule process.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how it all comes out in the wash....but remember...it is specifically for "2009"...it is not authorized after that...so basicly it is a temporary rule/law...that was probably lobbied for...as I said before, I think they really want to see what the compliance is and if it's going to be enforceable...but, for it to be in place just one year, I really don't think that 2 days of antler point restrictions is going to amount to anything when it comes to more mature bucks for the following season...I really think they are trying to get a better anterless harvest.

[96trigger]

I guess that is what I always thought the 3B season was for. It was more of a management zone for people that wanted to shoot multiple deer. I understand that temporary thing, and I'm trying to keep an open mind, but if people are able to shoot multiple deer and hunt during the rut for 3A. It is kind of a no-brainer which season to go. I don't get out much after Thanksgiving anyway, and when the muzzleloaders team up with the rest of 3B, the woods get pressured extremely hard. The nice part is, by the time 3A roles around, I usually have a nice buck pretty well patterned with my bow, so it might not be so bad going 3A, I know the weather is usually better.

I suppose if it is temporary for 2009, maybe I'll try 3A temporarily too. Hope I can convince the rest of my family to do the same. I think they will be on board. I warned them that this was coming, and they sounded like they thought 3B would be pointless also if this passed.

[Jameson]

Do I have this correct?

Everyone with a 3A license will have 9 days to hunt in 2009.

The last two days will be AR(Antler Restrictions) for hunters who haven't tagged an antlerless deer during the first seven days.

The last two days will be brown it's down for hunters who have tagged an antlerless deer during the first seven days.

[Jim916]

Last year 338, 339, 341, 342 and 344 were lottery for the 3A season. That means if you did not draw a lottery tag you were hunting bucks only. So if that stays the same this year, you will only be able to shoot a "4 point per side buck" the 2nd weekend.

We have always hunted bucks only and the only changes for me is that I get 2 more days to hunt again(we lost them a few years ago and gave them to the 3B seaon) and I will only be able to shoot a larger buck.

[Jameson]

With the No Party Hunting the last two days, there should be less hunters in the woods. I don't hunt zone 3. Zone 3 hunters how many hunters do you think you will see in the woods the last two days? My guess is in Lottery areas there will be very few hunters.

The No Party Hunting the last two days does give a little incentive to large groups to hunt 3B.

[96trigger]

It will be interesting to see what they do with the lottery areas etc.... I am well aware of what it means for zone 3, I am on the intersection of 342, 343, and 344. If they keep it at lottery, one deer only per 3A season, then not much will change. And I agree, the effect will probably be minnimal. However, if they allow more than one deer to be taken during the 3A season, i.e. use it to control population, then there is no reason to hunt 3B except for the extra day or two off at Thanksgiving. Also, the extra two days given to the 3B season are now shared with a very large number of ML hunters. I don't feel the 3B hunters really gained anything by the added weekend, last year it was insane the number of hunters in this area. It actually gave a little glimpse into what it would look like if 3A and 3B ever combined. I'm keeping an open mind, but I am skeptical of how this going to pan out. It really isn't going to do a whole lot for the deer population.

[96trigger]

Quote:

With the No Party Hunting the last two days, there should be less hunters in the woods. I don't hunt zone 3. Zone 3 hunters how many hunters do you think you will see in the woods the last two days? My guess is in Lottery areas there will be very few hunters.

Good point, I am hoping that no party hunting means no assisting in the taking also, but I'm not going to hold my breath. We will have to wait and see what it looks like. I am going to assume that there will still be a large number of hunters in the woods, either driving for other hunters, or trying to fill their tags. I think a lot of party hunting will take place the first weekend to try and save tags for the second weekend. Especially if there are guys that can only go the first weekend.

I am very curious to see how the tags shake out. Will we be able to buy a buck tag, and a management tag at the same time? Will those that haven't shot a buck yet before the second weekend go out and try and hammer the does so as to avoid the antler restrictions, or will the doe need to be shot durinig archery or some other season? Will we be able to go out and shoot a buck, and then still shoot a doe for management later on? Still too many unanswered questions, going to take some reading to figure it out.

[PostFrontal]

We hunt in 343 and 344. So if I shoot a doe in 343 (management area) does that count for my doe in 344? Or do I have to put in for the lottery in 344 and get drawn for a tag and shoot my doe there? Or do only the select few that get drawn for a tag in 344 and shoot their doe in 344 have no restriction?

[96trigger]

I don't think anybody knows just how that is going to pan out. We will have to wait and see. It is going to be interesting and we are going to have to learn a whole new set of laws for the great experiment of "2009". Should be very interesting. I'm sure it will get discussed on here as soon as we know more. Hopefully, they get it squared away before the antlerless applications for 3A are due.

[candiru]

This is a mess.

[96trigger]

It very well could be. Lots of ifs and what ifs going to be thrown out. Really wish they would have went all or nothing. AR, no party for all of 3A, and lottery only, would have been a more herd friendly start, and much easier in regs. Anyhow, we will just have to keep our ears, (and minds) open.

[lcornice]

This is a mess.

Good summation. Best post yet.

[picksbigwagon]

Lou, glad to see you posting, I know you will keep us in the loop. It is gonna be interesting putting the booklets together this year I bet

[candiru]

Good Luck, Lou

[lcornice]

Lou, glad to see you posting, I know you will keep us in the loop. It is gonna be interesting putting the booklets together this year I bet

I'm going to cut and paste some of this thread into the book. You guys will have it figured out how to explain it before I do!

[picksbigwagon]

I don't doubt that for one minute..........

[96trigger]

I was waiting for lou to jump in here, but I didn't want to call him out. I figure that he is in up to ears with this at the moment. There will be plenty of questions for him later. On a side note, mentioned this to my relatives, looks like they are gearing up for 3A, it will be the first time EVER for my hunting party. I'm trying to help them out with QDM. I'm hoping that we will be able to get a management tag for 3A so that some of those guys don't do the brown its down. Its going to be hard for some of them to switch after 30 years of hunting one way.

[cupper]

For all of you Zone 3 hunters who are as frustrated as I am, there are two people you can thank:

1.) Sen. Satveer Chaudhary of Fridley

2.) Jim Nowlan, President: Bluff Country Chapter, MDHA

Sen. Chaudhary took it upon himself to get this language into the omnibus bill at the urging of Bluff Country MDHA. He did so in the wee hours of the night shortly before the bill was signed into Law by Gov. Pawlenty. This all took place after 3 separate testimonies by the DNR against making these changes to 3A.

I've gone back and forth several times via e-mail with Sen Chaudhary and I'd be happy to share them. I will give you the last piece of inofrmation he passed onto me. It is an e-mail he recieved from Mr. Nowlan...

Senators Ropes & Chaudhary; Representatives Drazkowski; Pelowski & Dill

Just a note to thank you for your support in restoring the 2 days to the 3A deer hunting season and also for supporting the gun case amendment; the shining amendment and many of the other items on the omnibus bill.

Your hard work for these changes has earned you much respect from the constituents in this area

Thank you again

Jim Nowlan, President

Bluff Country Chapter, MDHA

43827 Twin Bluffs Drive

Winona, MN. 55987

[honker23]

I think one rather large aspect of the split season has been missed here. I feel the MAJOR reason to keep the 3B is to offer more people access to land to hunt. Most every land owner I know in the area hunts his own land with relatives/friends the first season. Then they allow others to hunt the 3B to thin the does out, and if they are lucky, take a nice buck. This allows the 3A to hunt close to the rut and usually take very nice deer. Do you think i'd have access to the land I hunt if there was one season....NOPE! The 3B is responsible for controlling the population, 3A is for your chance at a trophy. The only thing this has screwed up is the law should restrict antlers the whole 3A season in my opinion.

[cupper]

I have no problem with the split seasons. I think they are very necessary considering the amount of hunting pressure that area of the state gets. However, I think both season should be pushed back at least two weeks (that's a whole other discussion) and I feel that the restrictions on the final two days of 3A this year will make the first 7 an "if it's brown its down" situation. The average hunter will want to fill their tag before they have to worry about special regs. I'd like to see AR in both 3A and 3B for certain counties.

Unfortunately our legislature won't allow the DNR to do their job and manage the deer herd and hunting regulations for Zone 3 this year. Hopefully the'll stay out of the DNR's business in 2010.

[PostFrontal]

Whoooaaaa...I thought I read in the Outdoor News a couple weeks back when this went to Pawlenty's desk, the head of the state MDHA said the Bluffland Chapter was against it along with the Bluffland's Whitetail Assoc because they felt it should be managed by the DNR not the legislature...?

Am I not remembering correctly?

[96trigger]

Going to be awefully hard to manage a deer population during the 3B season when the 3A hunters have chased a lot of the deer into the sanctuaries. Thats how it is in my area. I know that there are plenty of deer in the area. Too many in some areas, but for some reason, during 3B, they have a tendency to go nocturnal or go to those unhuntable areas. They aren't stupid. The extra weekend will just make it that much harder. Also take into account that now 3A hunters will more than likely be able to shoot multiple deer and you decrease the number of deer available for 3B. Might as well skip 3B all together, and buy a smoke pole. Kind of looking forward to hunting 3A but I will admit that its going to be harder to find spaces and the spaces we hunt will be more crowded as we will share them with the normal 3A hunters. Should be very interesting. Really wish they would have just went all AR or nothing.

I too thought that it was the MDHA that was pushing this, not bluffland whitetails.