They Shoot Pike, Don't They?

[Muddog]

merkman

By definition fishing is, the art or practice of catching fish.

The Q, I have for you is, is spearing catching fish?

[mrklean]

Im gonna pop in and help merk out, ok i know some not all dont like spearing for pike, like you said is spearing catching fish. Not trying to be a jerk but are you guys against bowfishing rough fish then? Its the samething just a different type of fish. You may say rough fish are hard on the lakes ecosystem but you could say the samething about pike as well eating other fish. I guess i just wonder why so many are against spearing, while very few say anything about bowfishing?

[merkman]

merkman

By definition fishing is, the art or practice of catching fish.

The Q, I have for you is, is spearing catching fish?

State Statues

97A.015 DEFINITIONS.

Subd. 2.Angling."Angling" means taking fish with a hook and line. An "angler" is a person who takes fish by angling.

Subd. 47.Taking."Taking" means pursuing, shooting, killing, capturing, trapping, snaring, angling, spearing, or netting wild animals, or placing, setting, drawing, or using a net, trap, or other device to take wild animals. Taking includes attempting to take wild animals, and assisting another person in taking wild animals.

Subd. 55. Wild animals. "Wild animals" means all living creatures, not human, wild by

nature, endowed with sensation and power of voluntary motion, and includes mammals, birds,

fish, amphibians, reptiles, crustaceans, and mollusks.

Although not specifically stated there, I think it is safe to assume that a darkhouse spearer is a person who takes fish by spear.

So yes both anglers and darkhouse spearers take fish utilizing the legal methods of angling and darkhouse spearing.

[dcmusky]

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/montrose/clearwater%20winter%20creel%20summary.pdf

[dcmusky]

Something to chew on.

[merkman]

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/montrose/clearwater%20winter%20creel%20summary.pdf

[Muddog]

Carp? The number one game fish in the world? I love to CATCH them.

Is it FISHING?

[dcmusky]

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/montrose/clrwatersummer05.pdf Fair is fair. But I think this shows that if one group does't follow the slots they won't work. Think about the good of the fishery and not the fisherman, because if we have good fisheries we all become good fishermen!

[dcmusky]

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fisheries/management/regs.html

[dcmusky]

Adjust regulations

No pain, no gain. That sums up why experimental fishing regulations are needed and how they work. Fishing regulations are like a diet. If they don't require giving up something, they won't help improve fishing. And yet, like pudgy dieters hoping to shed pounds while eating glazed doughnuts, most anglers want to catch bigger fish but have traditionally opposed regulations that would restrict their catch.

[delcecchi]

Since carp are very underutilized as sportfish, bowfishing really has little effect. If there were many folks fishing for carp and there were few large ones left then it would be time to reconsider bowfishing.

[Neighbor_guy]

They bowfish for Pike in Alaska. I can honestly say, if I lived there, I would hunt 'em. I enjoy bowfishing, I look forward to it as much as any hunting season. If it were legal, and its not , I would bowfish pike from the spear house.

It is hard to look at what is accepted as "ethical" in one part of the country, because the same thing would be "unethical" or deplorable in another. Be it snaging paddle fish in MO, hunting driven deer in NC with buckshot, or shooting pike in Vermont. Who's to say, if we had grown up or spent out lives out there, we may have tried shooting them with rifles too.

[merkman]

dcmusky,

Those creel studies from the one specific lake are interesting.

It is quite interesting to see that the fish released by anglers in the summer and winter are both smaller in length and weight than the fish harvested by anglers.

Would you consider this a function of the method of angling vs spearing or is it really a function of the sportsman themselves?

Also with those catch and release numbers on this specific lake we can see that even though only 16% of anglers targeted northern pike they harvested 2003 pike, on top of this they caught and released 10,350 northern pike in the winter and the summer.

With a catch and release mortality rate of only 5% that equates to 517 fish killed by catch and release mortality alone.

Studies that have investigated the effects of catch and release in northern pike have reported low overall mortality rates (3 to 10%) (Falk and Gillman 1975, Burkholder 1992)

The Darkhouse spearers who I assume all targeted northern pike, only harvested 576 northern pike. That is just 59 more fish than the anglers killed though catch and release alone.

The darkhouse spearers dead fish became dinner, the catch and release dead fish became fertilizer for the next algae bloom.

Since you enjoy looking at specific lakes lets take a look at a specific lake like Mille Lacs or any other one of the 35% to 50% of accessible lake acreage in Minnesota that darkhouse spearers are currently outright or effectively banned from, and lets imply that those numbers pertain the fishery as a whole.

Darkhouse spearing is not as bad as you make it out to be. There is plenty of room for both legal methods to share the public resource.

I know this goes against the common way of thinking, but if you want to reduce the impact of darkhouse spearers on any specific lake, you have to open up the waters that have outright and effective bans on them. Not doing this only concentrates darkhouse spearers on fewer and fewer lakes. This has the exact same effect on those specific lakes as banning anglers from other lakes and forcing them to increase pressure on fewer and fewer lakes.

The answer is in sharing our public resources with our current legal methods. The answer is not in banning more and more methods, just because you don’t use, like, or understand them.

[Muddog]

In Missouri Bass is number one and Minnesota Walleye is #1. In Northern Mn you can hunt Deer with a Rifle and in southern Mn you hunt with slugs. So maybe we can have pike impalement free zones in Mn. It works with hunting laws!

[merkman]

In Missouri Bass is number one and Minnesota Walleye is #1. In Northern Mn you can hunt Deer with a Rifle and in southern Mn you hunt with slugs. So maybe we can have pike impalement free zones in Mn. It works with hunting laws!

I have yet to see a "runaway" spear hurt a ice fishing sportsman across the lake like a 30-06 round would hurt a hunter hunting in the hunter concentrated hunting areas of southern Minnesota.

[Muskiefool]

Hey Merk your concerned with numbers of MI members to tell the truth I have no clue and the number of members doesn't concern me I vote for quality over the masses in a conservation organization any day, sure we could have statewide banquets and everyone that comes is a member and I could try to impress you with people that really don't care about the resource or the cause.

I see you also mentioned the lack of representation from the Darkhouse at the hearing as I told you before he was sick that day or he would have been there and btw he's probably done more for fishing than you or I ever will and I don't appreciate you constantly dragging out the fact he missed one hearing in 30 years; he's committed so drop it.

That brings me to this you say you listened to the hearings but did you hear anything that was said?

I take the side of the resource over and above the theoretical needs of anglers when it does nothing but harm the resource, these fish are all we have Merk when they are gone they are gone, when they have been hammered back in as few as 5 generations they can lose their ability to come back; we see this in the lakes that do not respond to the restrictions.

Why do you want to destroy our Pike and Muskie fishery? why do you want to remove restrictions that have proven themselves to be effective?

My obligation is to the anglers in MN and to secure our future we need to conserve it and protect it from over harvest and the exploitation of all sources (land, air, water); my commitment is to the fishery and its future.

You stand for the right to exploit and do so without restriction because everyone will do the right thing; I stand on the need to conserve, we will never agree because you don't understand and never will; its not an endless bounty of game and fish for you to take and use at your will, its a fragile resource that we have all but decimated in the past 150 years.

You as others would as well; like to spear or arrow pike in the spawn, why not trot lines and nets; or blast them, it wont matter when they are all gone, then what would you choose to destroy? song birds?

I am a conservationist, I fight to provide a resource, for us to enjoy as sportfish and as a meal, but they have to be there to enjoy and harvest.

You are a combine that would harvest by any means and at any length to fill the tank and the freezer, you expect that they will always be there and that stocking will solve all your problems.

I cant see that world from my side of the street and I don't expect any different from you.

Other than that have a great weekend Merk and all; I'm off to the r3al world.

[dcmusky]

dcmusky' date='

With a catch and release mortality rate of only 5% that equates to 517 fish killed by catch and release mortality alone.

[iThe Darkhouse spearers who I assume all targeted northern pike, only harvested 576 northern pike. That is just 59 more fish than the anglers killed though catch and release alone.

TSince you enjoy looking at specific lakes lets take a look at a specific lake like Mille Lacs or any other one of the 35% to 50% of accessible lake acreage in Minnesota that darkhouse spearers are currently outright or effectively banned from, and lets imply that those numbers pertain the fishery as a whole.

Darkhouse spearing is not as bad as you make it out to be. There is plenty of room for both legal methods to share the public resource.

']Where are your numbers coming from? Did you also note that the harvested fish are the big ones? this is the problem our pike fisheries are faceing NOT SPEARING. The slots need to be in place for ALL ANGLERS not just a select few if you would like I always post my email address so contact me this fall and I would like to spear but I want to target hammerhandles. I'm a metal fabricator so I will even develope my own hammerhandle spear. I think this could do some good for the pike size structure, and I'll look&release all pike ove 24". I also was reading the outdoor news and noticed alot of other spearers not wanting the slots lifted for spearers ether, and they always talked about how the sport was past down to them. Who's going to pass it on to the out of staters, how will this effect the already too high harvest numbers on big fish. If Joe Bagofdoughnuts fron North Dakota spends $600 to come spearing is he REALLY going to "look&release" I doubt it. But really think about it Merkman & dcmusky in a spearhouse going after hammerhandles

[merkman]

I think most darkhouse spearers will agree that the slots should not be lifted for darkhouse spearers. I think they will also agree that the current system is not right either. Right now from what I know of this proposed legislation, I think the best thing it does, is to get people talking about what is wrong with the current system. It also acts as a starting point for the politicians to come to some type of agreement that is in the best interests of all northern pike sportsmen. We all know that proposed legislation can look way different after making it through all the compromises that happen in that big house on the hill. The current system of making a darkhouse spearer a criminal for the same action an angler walks away from, has to stop, I am pretty sure most sportsmen can agree with that.

If you really want to go darkhouse spearing for hamerhandles next winter just let me know. I have an 8'X8' portable 2 holed spearhouse, but I will tell you I don't see any fish when others are along, unless it is Huey. lol

I will not take you to a slot limit lake either since I don't want either of us to get a ticket if we happen to make a mistake and unintentionally kill a 24.5" pike.

I have several spears I have made myself. There is a part of darkhouse spearing that many don't know about and if you are a metal fabricator I am sure it will be right up your alley. You would be amazed how resourceful most darkhouse spearers are. For me that is one of the coolest parts of darkhouse spearing.

I don't think you have too much to worry about when you talk about Joe Bagofdoughnuts. There are aprox 2000 registered darkhouse spearers in the 4 states that border Minnesota. Very few of these darkhouse spearers are serious enough to go darkhouse spearing within their own state, much less going to another state. Most out of state spearers will be Joe Snowbird from down south who grew up spearing here, Kids who come back for the holidays to spend time with their families in the darkhouse, and I would assume a few from Grandforks/East Grandforks or Fargo/Morehead type "cross the border out of staters" In any regard these same sportsmen are allowed to hunt in Minnesota as “out of staters” so if we can trust them with a gun I think it is pretty safe to assume we can trust them with a spear.

If it passes I know I will go out with my young nephew who is an AZ resident when he comes up for Christmas. I will teach him the art of responsible darkhouse spearing, and the importance of every animal he sees in the spear hole, that you can count on. I can't wait to see him when he sees his first pike ease into the hole.

I really hope it passes.

[Random guy]

Click HERE

[GottaGo]

Wow, this kinda got completely off subject...

As for shooting pike, it sounds interesting...not so much that you're going out and killing fish and leaving them to rot, but it would be a fun way of target shooting. Maybe a shooting range could set up a small target that moves like a pike, stopping, then darting, then disappearing, etc, I think it would be a lot of fun.

[dcmusky]

N0 to be honest with you it sounds like the dumbest %$#%^$ thing I've ever heard of, shooting fish with a gun, come on! Merk I'm dead serious I'd like to target hammerhandles this winter.

[merkman]

Merk I'm dead serious I'd like to target hammerhandles this winter.

Find a lake with an abundance of hamerhandles, no slot limits, no muskies, and I am in.

I am within striking distance of just about any lake in MN and I love to travel and check out new places.

Just let me know where and when.

[merkman]

Sorry as for the original thread.

If you wanna shoot a big pike, make sure you use a camera not a gun.

[Raider4ever]

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