Voice your opinion...OTC MN tags

[Scott M]

From DNR News:

DNR invites public input about hunting changes (March 6, 2009)

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) invites the public to comment on a proposal that would simplify regulations for hunting Canada geese during the early fall season in the metro and southeast parts of the state.

Over-the-counter turkey license sales and a special Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) deer hunt will also be discussed at the meetings.

The DNR is hosting three public meetings:

* Thursday, March 12, from 7 to 9 p.m. at the DNR headquarters, 500 Lafayette Rd., St. Paul.

* Thursday, March 19, from 7 to 9 p.m. at the People’s Cooperative, 3935 Hwy. 14 E., Rochester.

* Thursday, March 26, from 7-9 p.m. at DNR Regional Headquarters, 261 Minnesota Highway 15 South, New Ulm.

* A fourth meeting is being planned for northeastern Minnesota.

The DNR is proposing to merge the metro and southeast early Canada goose zones into the statewide zone, making season dates and lengths, bag limits and other regulations consistent throughout most of the state. In addition to simplifying regulations, the change is expected to provide more hunting opportunities and increase harvest of Canada geese.

The change would eliminate the prohibition against hunting Canada geese within 100 feet of open water during the September season in the metro and southeast areas.

People who cannot attend the meetings are urged to complete a questionnaire online.

Written comments also may be mailed to: Season Comments, DNR Section of Wildlife, 500 Lafayette Road, St. Paul, MN 55155-4007.

Online Questionnaire, available after Mar. 12

[Dave S]

IMO, I think there's too many variables that affect the turkey populations to offer tags over the counter.

Not to mention gaining access to hunt private property being as tough as it is. The public land in my area would be pressured too much.

[DonBo]

I like the way the current system is set up. Reduces the pressure for sure. I hunt some properties that I normally wouldn't have access to because the landowners want first shot, after that they don't care as much. I don't blame them.

I'm sure it would cost less to do away with the lottery. Money is a big concern everywhere these days.

[paintbrush]

I believe what I have read about the over the counter tags, it would only apply to the last 2 seasons,and would only be good for people that have not drawn a tag in the earlier seasons.

[DonBo]

I believe what I have read about the over the counter tags, it would only apply to the last 2 seasons,and would only be good for people that have not drawn a tag in the earlier seasons.

I think the state is considering OTC tags statewide instead of the lottery we now have.

[elevatorguy]

I honestly hope they don't do it. The only way to do it fairly is limit the amount of tags and limit it to like 3 or 4 time frames. This way so every one isn't out at the same time trying to hunt. Just a thought.

[Scott Stein]

No way,leave it how it is. The lottery system we have right now works great,I think.

[WallyGator12000]

I disagree...the lottery system is working, but I am all for OTC tags. My thoughts would be to maintain the "season" system, and when you purchase an OTC tag it would only be valid for the 5 day season you choose. Only one season per hunter. The truth is for many of us our schedules dictate when we can hunt, so I think the hunter pressure would still be spread out. If you found out the land you hunt was going to be heavily pressured a certain season, choose another. Also the concerns about all the hunters scoring because they can choose the earlier seasons would be unfounded as well. If you want to risk season A or B, be my guest, mother nature may have you hunting in snow. It would be amazing never having to worry about not getting drawn for the lottery ever again...the state's turkey flock is doing fantastic, I think it's time to open things up a little.

[Dave S]

the state's turkey flock is doing fantastic, I think it's time to open things up a little.

This totally depends on where you're located. Some areas of the state have had a couple bad springs (wet) and the flocks in those areas have dropped from 150+ birds down to close to a dozen.

Not everyone scouts birds where they plan to hunt to know this or the effects of a bad season and how it carries over to the next year.

If they sell over the counter, then limit it to 2-3 days per license with only one license per spring and the ability to purchase another for the fall hunt.

[WallyGator12000]

I agree with you on the limit of one license per spring, but I would open it up just a tad, say 4-5 days per license rather than 2-3 (this wouldn't put you at the mercy of the weather as much).

Also, I meant the state's turkey flock is doing fantastic, overall. There are absolutely some areas that have been hit hard by some bad springs, and localized flocks are down. But in other areas the flocks are way up. If I remember right, hunter success with turkey hunting is relatively low (I don't remember the exact statistic, if someone can help me on this one..) and I would think that in areas where the turkey population is hurting, not many turkeys would get shot. I can't ever believe that you could wipe the population out in an area, there will always be a tom or a jake that survives, or more turkeys that move in from nearby regions (this is supposing spring hunt, males only). If the DNR got really worried about an area or a localized flock, they could shut that area/zone # down for a spring or two, and the hunters who hunt there could purchase their license for a different area/zone.

I also wonder if this idea of OTC for one season (4-5 days) could help limit the amount of turkey poaching that goes on, because then they wouldn't be faced with the hassle of the lottery system (which may cause them to say forget it, I'll just get one on my own and not register it)...

Just my two cents.

[Powerstroke]

I don't like the idea of "opening day" for turkeys. It does not matter what you think about how weather will affect your hunt. People will still head to the woods on opening day to hunt a turkey, because its not impossible to get a poor weather gobbler. It may be unpleasant, but so is late season deer hunting, but many of us still do it.

Also, turkeys will get a great amount of pressure on this opening weekend. Not to mention imagine the hunter density created by OTC tags on the opener and all of those hunters are in full camo moving about the woods.

Having a lottery system does weed out the very casual hunter who may want to try turkeys, but with surplus tags available OTC every year that is hardly an excuse.

I like it the way it is. It spreads out the hunters based on the bird density and it allows the DNR to manage the number of hunters in the woods for safety reasons. They get to consider variable that the average hunter does not have access to.

[WallyGator12000]

Then why do we allow an "opening day" for deer hunting? The truth is even though success is often greater on this day than the rest of the season, there are just too many variables to state with certainty that this would be so detrimental to the turkey populations that we should avoid it.

All of our game populations see a high amount of pressure on opening weekend, and I just can't see how safety is going to be any more of an issue than it is on deer opener (where the ammunition used (bullet or slug) travels much further than 100 yards, and is lethal out to that range). I firmly believe the hunter density would sort itself out...if you hunt public, you might have to walk a little further or get up a little earlier, and travel with blaze out and sit against a large tree. If you hunt private, you may have to opt for one of the later seasons available under the OTC theory, which I believe many hunters would choose to do anyway, because of scheduling issues.

The current lottery system absolutely weeds out casual hunters who would like to try turkey hunting, and based upon your concerns with how many turkeys would get taken in the earlier seasons how are the surplus tags for later seasons available hardly an excuse? Guys stand in line for hours for the good ones, and they go fast.

Remember, many of the other states have OTC tags, and some have bag limits greater than 1 bird, and their populations are sustainable. I know they have more birds then we do, but that also means more birds are killed each spring.

Almost every other huntable population in the state of MN is OTC (obviously moose and elk excluded). Turkeys are polygamist, like pheasants, and can sustain a huge loss to the male population as long as some survive.

In a day and age where less and less people are heading out to the woods to hunt, especially youths, I don't see why we would want to deter them with the lottery system if (and I believe this is a key point) the MNDNR determines our turkey populations can sustain a slightly higher harvest rate than we currently see. I checked the DNR HSOforum, and across the state hunter success rates last fall were variable, but the far majority were in the 30-40% range. I completely agree that more turkeys would be taken with an OTC system, but I don't believe enough to hurt the populations, or prevent them from continuing to grow.

[Powerstroke]

I am in no way a turkey biologist nor do I have all the answers. I was only stating my opinion.

Slugs and rifle ammo can travel farther, but there are few accidents because people wear blaze orange. Would we require turkey hunters to wear blaze orange when mobile? The same with other hunting types except waterfowl, but if you shoot at a boat on the water, there might be more than one thing wrong with you.

Other states do offer OTC tags. Those states kill more turkeys than MN has in its entire turkey population. States that do not have an abundant population still use a lottery for obvious reasons.

I do agree that restrictions make it tough to recruit new hunters, but I don't think we should sacrifice the quality of the hunt to recruit a few more. I want to moose and elk hunt, but because there aren't enough animals and tags to support an open hunt I feel that its difficult for me to get interested. Therefore I have to travel to another state to do so. In MN, if you would like to turkey hunt, in a casual fashion, then buy a surplus tag. Yes the "good ones" go quickly, usually to people who weren't drawn in the lottery.

Again, if you are so casual a hunter that you don't play the lottery, and you don't try to get a "good" surplus tag, and you don't want one that is available after the rush, then how bad do you really want to turkey hunt?

I think OTC surplus tags provide a great option for hunters who come upon turkey hunting and want to try it out. Or maybe they know someone who will take them out. They have an option to buy their own tag. There is the youth mentor program as well as the apprentice hunter program. We also have small game hunting and game farms.

I think access to turkeys is good for the amount of birds out there.

If the success ratio is about 1/3 for turkeys by hunters who put forth the effort of applying and includes those who get landowner permits, it says to me that A-the turkey is not easy to get and B- they are not that abundant. Even with the abundance of deer and the availability of tags, the firearms deer hunters were 37.1% successful in 2007. Our deer population can sustain this amount of hunting, but could our turkeys?

I think there are zones that could sustain OTC tags, but not the entire state. It could be treated like deer hunting if you want. Make lottery zones out of sensitive populations.

Facts were found on the DNR stats report. The rest is opinion.

[WallyGator12000]

I am also in no way a turkey biologist, nor do I have all the answers. I really enjoy discussing this, especially because I was initially shocked that some people would prefer the lottery system, I appreciate your insight into why you think its superior.

I like the idea you proposed of treating it like deer hunting, with lottery zones for sensitive populations. I also would be all for a requirement of blaze orange while mobile during turkey season, even just the flags that some vests have in the back.

My whole opinion boils down to the fact that I don't want to have to worry about not getting drawn in the lottery, and I want turkey hunting to be as accessible as possible for anyone to try, especially youths.

Thanks for the discussion so far, I have really enjoyed it.

[cw642]

Does anyone know the specific details of what they are talking about doing? If they are going to open the last two weeks up for firearms OTC then would it be OK? Hard to pass judgement on one partial sentence on the DNR site.

CW

[cw642]

Slugs and rifle ammo can travel farther, but there are few accidents because people wear blaze orange. Would we require turkey hunters to wear blaze orange when mobile?

.

Compare turkey hunting saftey record to the current deer saftey records nationwide. By Requiring blaze orange you would be confining everyone to blind hunting.

[Gordie]

the way it is works so dont fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DonBo]

Yes, other states offer OTC turkey tags. I've hunted some of those states. It's often been a zoo.

Missouri for instance, everyone hunts turkeys there. Opening weekend is enough that some new hunters wouldn't want to get involved in that again. Even they see the problems with it. Enough so that they break their season into two parts. You're alowed one bird during each time period. The second "opening weekend" is typically as bad as the first.

I believe by breaking the season into several different time periods, like they do here and in Wisconsin it's a better quality experience for everyone involved.

[Surface Tension]

If I were a landowner I'd be for OTC tags. If I hunted public land I wouldn't be in favor of OTC tags. I hunt private land and am in good standing with a private landowner that allows me to hunt.

If OTC tags happened a hunter would have add hunting pressured birds to his tactics if he hasn't already. That includes where you'll setup. That might mean birds moved off a particular piece of property. So much for scouting a turkeys daily patterns.

When I think turkeys I'm thinking quality of the hunt. More hunters in the woods means turkeys off their daily routine and sending birds off the bluff and into a two mile glide to the bottoms.

IMO, not enough birds, too little public land, and too many hunters for OTC tags.

[DTro]

Just as a note from a “never been” dude. I had a few times where I would’ve gladly walked in a bought a tag and went on a hunt. The lottery system works well for hunters that have been or have turkey hunting friends to help them out.

The whole multiple season, multiple zone, bonus tag, archery tag is confusing to a first timer (at least it is to me). I bet more people might get involved with a simpler system.

[DonBo]

Again, the biggest problem I would have is that there are some properties I hunt that the landowner also hunts. If he has an earlier season, which as a landowner he always does, he let's me hunt after his time period is done. If he gets to hunt the entire season I will not be granted permission.

[Flash]

My understanding of this is that the Spring Hunt will still be what it is. The over the counter licenses would be for the fall hunt. I don't think that they sell out on the fall licenses anyhow. So what would be the difference. I guess we will have to see what is brought up at the meeting. I may be wrong here but that is what was explained to me.

[DonBo]

My understanding of this is that the Spring Hunt will still be what it is. The over the counter licenses would be for the fall hunt. I don't think that they sell out on the fall licenses anyhow. So what would be the difference. I guess we will have to see what is brought up at the meeting. I may be wrong here but that is what was explained to me.

Good point. There certainly is a lot of assuming going on here. Guess no one has come up with exactly what the DNR will be bringing up at this meeting.

[mnhunter2]

I think they are considering offering over the counter tags in zones with 50 tags per season, for the last 2 seasons if you failed to draw, I personally don't have a problem with this plan as now its pretty easy to get a tag for the last seasons. We should be happy that the turkey population is growing and someday mabye we won't have to limit hunters at all.

[DonBo]

Just heard the real scoop tonight. Talked to Tom Glines, Minnesota's regional director. mnhunter is right, OTC tags for the last two time periods. Also OTC tags for kids after the first three time periods.

Also sounds like those of us lucky enough to have a spot to hunt in the metro area (601) should never have to go without a tag again.