Joe Mauer a lot of little problems

[jwmiller33]

strictly business, but it's pretty apparent you don't understand that and probably never will, even if he wins 3 more batting titles and another MVP....

...or another silver slugger award or a couple more gold gloves.. or another 5 all star appearances... i dont understand why you wouldnt want the best player at a position in all of baseball on your team... or one of the best hitters in the game. and its not like they were spending YOUR money in his contract... its the twins revenue and im sure the twins higher ups and GM know how to manage their money much better than you do. if you use the argument "then they wont have as much money to spend on other players", that is wrooong.. Its important to note the Twins aggregate player payroll has been around the 70 mil range the last few years. Moving to target field has allowed them to push the payroll around 100 mil in 2010 and presumably the near future, in which case the 23 million devoted to Mauer each year will still leave more money to be spent than they had in any other previous season...

Dave, you always make comparisons of Joe to other great hitters in the game and say Joe is somehow inferior. Mauers deal is nearly identicle to the deal Yankees Teixeira signed last offseason at 180 million for 8 yrs. Teixeira signed that deal as a 29 year old 1B and .290/.378/.541 career hitter with an adjusted OPS+ of 134. Mauer is a 27-year-old catcher and .327/.408/.483 career hitter with an adjusted OPS+ of 136. Mauer is two years younger with superior defensive value and every bit as strong offensively even before factoring in the huge hitting disparity between first basemen and catchers (showing his value even if a position change is needed down the line).

[Big Dave2]

but it's pretty apparent you don't understand that and probably never will, even if he wins 3 more batting titles and another MVP....

How about if he wins a world series title and then you can get back to me.

It will never happen here as long as Mauer is on this team. Its called "putting your eggs all in one basket". You can't do that when you are a small market team with a low payroll. It is rediculous to pay 2 or 3 good players worth of salery to one guy who plays 20-30 less games than any other everyday starter.

[jwmiller33]

You can't do that when you are a small market team with a low payroll.

there are only 9 teams in MLB that have a payroll this year thats over 100 million, and the twins are one of them. i'd hardly call that a low payroll. interesting note, the AL central has 3 of those 9 teams.

[Huskie]

Big Dave: Joe, 4 for 5 today, back in the .320's. How do you like your crow, baked, barbequed or broiled!!!!!!

[Coach1310]

How about if he wins a world series title and then you can get back to me.

So does he have to win it by himself or can he win it as part of the Twins... last time I checked, individual players can't win World Series titles, but TEAMS can...

Is it outrageous that someone can make 23 million playing baseball????? Sure.... but we are ALL worth what someone is willing to pay us and in Mauer's case that is soon to be 23 million per year...

[jwmiller33]

So does he have to win it by himself or can he win it as part of the Twins... last time I checked, individual players can't win World Series titles, but TEAMS can...

Is it outrageous that someone can make 23 million playing baseball????? Sure.... but we are ALL worth what someone is willing to pay us and in Mauer's case that is soon to be 23 million per year...

i couldn't have said it better myself

[Big Dave2]

there are only 9 teams in MLB that have a payroll this year thats over 100 million, and the twins are one of them. i'd hardly call that a low payroll. interesting note, the AL central has 3 of those 9 teams.

How many of them have a catcher who plays 20 -30 lesss games than other star players as their highest paid player?

[Big Dave2]

Big Dave: Joe, 4 for 5 today, back in the .320's. How do you like your crow, baked, barbequed or broiled!!!!!!

Will he be 4-5 on the day he has to sit out and rest every week?

[Big Dave2]

So does he have to win it by himself or can he win it as part of the Twins... last time I checked, individual players can't win World Series titles, but TEAMS can...

Is it outrageous that someone can make 23 million playing baseball????? Sure.... but we are ALL worth what someone is willing to pay us and in Mauer's case that is soon to be 23 million per year...

Is the goal no longer to win a world series? If not, what is the goal? I'm just telling you that it will never happen here as long as that much salary is tied up in a catcher.

He may be worth 23 million dollars but he is worth that on a team that already has star offensive players at the other key positions, not on a team that has not had a decent 3rd baseman since the early 90's.

[harvey lee]

The Twins can pay Mauer all they want but he alone will not take them to the World Series alone. Yes, Joe is good but how many catchers are out more than Joe?

Geez, one watches some of the other sports and they can suck it up and Joe can only take a few more days off.

Maybe he needs some special spring training.

I like Joe but man, get your body in shape.

[jwmiller33]

Dave, this is a quote of yours from the Brett Favre thread in the football forum:

I must be just like Bret Favre then. I recently took apart time job in a grocery store as a night manager to make ends meet. I have over 13 years experience in the grocery business so this store offered me a better wage than the other night managers and offered me my choice of hours. I took them up on all the perks and you know what, without some of these perks I would not have even taken the job but they knew they were getting a good deal at the wage they were paying me. How many of you would turn down an offer like this from your employer and say, "no, no, give me the same wage as everyone else and give me whatever hours you want to. I want to be a team player".

Give me a break!

so was joe supposed to turn down this offer and say "no no give me the same wage as everyone else and give me whatever hours you want to. i want to be a team player".... no, just like you would have, joe accepted the contract offer from the twins...

the reason there are no other catchers making that type of money in MLB in because there ARE NO OTHER CATCHERS IN MLB THAT ARE AS SKILLED AS JOE MAUER IS. you dont think the twins knew mauer was a catcher and sits out once every 5-10 games??? Yes, they knew that.

Should we be complaining on here also about how much the Twins are paying Morneau???? Because he gets hurt sometimes and ends up missing more games than Mauer does... Thus, from your perspective, we should be complaining because he is getting paid MORE money than anyone else on our team and he is playing 20-30 games LESS than other players...

For example, last year, Mauer played in 138 games compared to Morneau's 135. This year, Mauer has played in 96 games compared to Morneaus 81 games. If your so mad about the Twins paying Mauer all this money, then you should be REALLY ticked off that we are paying Morneau even MORE money to play LESS THAN MAUER.

[Z-520]

The Twins can pay Mauer all they want but he alone will not take them to the World Series alone. Yes, Joe is good but how many catchers are out more than Joe?

Geez, one watches some of the other sports and they can suck it up and Joe can only take a few more days off.

Maybe he needs some special spring training.

I like Joe but man, get your body in shape.

Are you kidding me! Get your body in shape.

[harvey lee]

Joe is a pro athlete. Seems every season he is out more and more. If its not conditioning, then maybe its Joe.

Not kidding.

[zamboni]

He is just getting older, kneeling behind the plate for a couple hours gets tougher as you get older. Remember Pena had that crazy stance behind the plate when he got older? That saved his knees.

We got people complaining about Joe, could be worse, coulda took Mark Prior. I think he mows my nieghbors lawn now

[jwmiller33]

Joe is a pro athlete. Seems every season he is out more and more. If its not conditioning, then maybe its Joe.

Not kidding.

Harvey, with all due respect, I have to disagree with this statement. Maybe it just "seems" like Joe is out more and more... Maybe its just the fact that he is getting better as his career goes on and he is getting thrust into the spotlight more and you are paying more attention to him as his career goes on. Ever since Joe has played full time (2005), he has been pretty darn consistent in terms of number of games he has played each year. 2007 is the only year where a material decrease is present.

Looking at this graph at number of games Joe has played since becoming full time in 05, it looks pretty consistent to me. I dont know about you but that line graph looks pretty consistent with 1 year (07) sticking out. The number used for 2010 is obviously the number of games he is on pace for at this moment, which is 141.

You guys who are suggesting Joe is missing more and more time each season, please justify your logic with some solid reasoning, perhaps the use of some statistics to help me better understand where your idea is coming from, because as I look at the numbers set in stone, they are telling me a different story.

Maybe the person you are thinking of that is missing more and more time over the last couple years is Morneau, but somehow no one likes to talk about Morneau, only Mauer. Morneau played in EVERY SINGLE GAME of the 2008 season (all 163 of them), but then dropped to 135 last year and is on pace for 115 this year. I would be more worried about those sharp drops than Mauer's consistent track record.

[soldoncass]

Joe's hitting is coming back since Gardy gave him some time off from catching a few games. Butera really has done a good job back there...and his average is getting up to the first floor (from the basement). I'm liking him more all the time as back-up.

[Big Dave2]

so was joe supposed to turn down this offer and say "no no give me the same wage as everyone else and give me whatever hours you want to. i want to be a team player".... no, just like you would have, joe accepted the contract offer from the twins...

I have no problem with Joe Mauer accepting the offer made to him by the Twins. I have a problem with the Twins making the offer in the first place. Let's face it, it's fans like you that forced the Twins into having to offer Mauer that contract and keep him here just because he is from here. I would have much rather seen the Twins offer Torri Hunter and Johan Santana big money contracts but they decided that those players were not worth the money.

Don't fool yourself, Joe Mauer will still be playing here next season for one reason and thats because people in Minnesota like him and will pay money to come and see him. If you want this team to win the maximum amount of games Paying Joe Mauer this amount of money is not how you do it but unfortunately a baseball team is just like any other business in that the ultimate goal is to make money not necessarily win championships.

[Big Dave2]

Should we be complaining on here also about how much the Twins are paying Morneau???? Because he gets hurt sometimes and ends up missing more games than Mauer does... Thus, from your perspective, we should be complaining because he is getting paid MORE money than anyone else on our team and he is playing 20-30 games LESS than other players...

For example, last year, Mauer played in 138 games compared to Morneau's 135. This year, Mauer has played in 96 games compared to Morneaus 81 games. If your so mad about the Twins paying Mauer all this money, then you should be REALLY ticked off that we are paying Morneau even MORE money to play LESS THAN MAUER.

No one can help injuries. I will never call a player out for missing games due to injuries, thats out of anyones control. What I am stating is that everyone knows that Mauer is a CATCHER and there is absolutely NO CHANCE that he will appear in 162 games in a year. In fact there is very little chance that he plays more than 140 games ever again. I know that he played in 146 games in 2008 but as he ages he will not be able to do that plus there were a good amount of those games where he only DHed or pinch hit.

With a guy like Morneau you can count on him to play most every game if he does not get injured. Injuries can happen to anyone, even the baby Jesus.

[bassNspear]

he will get it together down the strech!

[jwmiller33]

Dave, you are yet to provide one piece of your argument that isn’t completely subjective analysis. Could you please provide one piece of objective/factual information/statistics that would somehow show how the Twins would be better off if they did NOT resign Mauer, and let him walk as a free agent after this season?

If money is your argument, then lets look at this… Looking at last year (2009), Joe was making $10,500,000, with the aggregate Twins player payroll at $65,299,266 (USA Today), which left $54,799,266 to be split by the remaining players on their roster, or roughly $1,405,109 per player on their 40 man roster.

Next year when Joe’s new contract kicks in, he will be making $23,000,000, bringing the Twins payroll to around roughly $110,000,000, which will easily be sustained given the extremely large influx of revenue created by the new Target Field. Taking out Joe’s salary will leave $85,059,167 to be split amongst the other players on the payroll, or $2,181004 per player on their 40 man roster.

It is easy to see that the Twins have moved into a new era, the “target field era” and out of the old “dome era”. The new stadium has heightened baseball interest in the state and the average attendance per game this year is thru the roof. With more people coming to the games, they are making tons of more money in concessions. This all results in them having much more disposable income to spend on players. Even with Joe’s new contract, the Twins are going to have more money left over to spend on other players than they have ever had before, an astounding 57% MORE than they have ever had in previous seasons. Not to mention, the Twins are in new territory with having two huge superstars signed to big contracts. Perhaps the Twins are finally moving out of their old “small market” form and, with the addition of target field, finally manning up and spending some money. Do you think the Twins higher ups are like, holy carp, we spent so much money on Mauer, we probably shouldn’t spend any more money and not go after anyone else. NO! The twins aren’t buying the big motor to not even try to win the race.

And I don’t give a rats a s s where Mauer is from!!!! If he was from Wisconsin, I would still want him on my team, regardless of how much money we are paying him. Dave, you just don’t seem to understand he is the BEST IN THE GAME AT HIS POSITION. We can either have Joe behind the plate for 140 games a year hitting 320 or we can have a replacement player like Butera or Mirjales batting 250. It’s your call, but I know who I want batting when the game is on the line, and his name is Joe, and he just so happens to be from MN. I honestly couldn’t care less where Joe is from, and I think it is just a blessing that he is from MN. I think it would be foolish of you to NOT want Mauer on your team. Ask any serious baseball fan in the world if they want Joe Mauer on their team, and I can guarantee you that the ones that know baseball are going to say yes 110% of the time.

[jwmiller33]

In fact there is very little chance that he plays more than 140 games ever again.

Well he is on pace for 141 this season, and you can bet you bottom dollar Gardy won't be resting him when we are only 1/2 game back in the final stretch of the season.... Lets put a beer on it. Mauer at or above 140 games by seasons end.... You down?

[harvey lee]

jwmiller

Lets see what those game numbers are at the end of this season. It just seems like Joe has missed alot behind the plate this season.

I have not counted the number of games he has caught but I would have to believe his numbers will be closer to his 2007 season in regards to playing a position.

I will take that bet at under 140 games behind the plate and not just hitting as a DH. We already have a DH.

[zamboni]

I would be willing to bet those stats show a few games where he didn't even DH, he came in the game in the 9th and PH

[Big Dave2]

I would be willing to bet those stats show a few games where he didn't even DH, he came in the game in the 9th and PH

Thats just it. He may play in 140 games but how many of them will have been for just 1 at bat or DHing?

Not too many years ago A-Rod was making less than Mauer and was playing in 162 games a couple of years. Thats how you win games and championships.

[greebs]

it's called protecting your investment. they are going to pay him a lot of money over the next many years and they want him to be in the lineup six years from now so they have to plan for it. I doubt Joe is begging gardy every other day to let him sit.