Why change party hunting laws?

[DaveT]

Personally I would love to see the gun season moved out of the rut, no party hunting, no muzzy season unless they go back to the flintlocks, and a half a dozen other things. However, I was told that 30 % of the buck harvest in this state is cross tagged bucks. If we harvest 100,000 bucks in a normal year, that's 30,000 yearlings that make it to their 2nd birthday. I do believe that would make a huge difference, and not necessitate any further changes. I believe that those of us who want change deserve to have our opinions heard and considered by the powers that be. I must admit that I would like a few more days to hunt the rut with my bow before the woods turn blaze orange, that is probably selfish, but it is the main reason I leave this state when I do. I can go to 1 of 4 different states and hunt the rut in relative peace, where the deer are not completely nocturnal or running from somebody else. Now we have this early doe hunt in the metro, and the deer are put on full alert before the rut even starts. In the metro area, there was a gun season of some kind open for over 50 days. The DNR has ruined my hunting by trying to be everything to everybody, and increase revenue through extra seasons and tags. The end result is a lot of dissapointed hunters who didn't enjoy their hunts as much as they used to. If the harvest is top ten, but we hunted twice as long to achieve that harvest, is that really a success? We have more and longer seasons than ever, with more accurate and powerful weapons to use. Of course we can keep our harvest rates up, but I would like to know how many hunter hours per deer we had 5 years ago vs. last year. By increasing opportunity, they have decreased the value of the hunt and the deer.

[MOSSY]

a trophy in my eyes is any deer that is taken leagally and ethically I can see many of you have a lot more time than I do.

If my kids (all 4 of them) have the opportunity to take a deer I think that is great. My wife and myself don't mind putting our tags on the deer they shoot. I would rather they shot all of our deer.Some people don't have the luxury of multiple tags and have to shoot bucks if they don't get drawn for an antlerless tag.

[reddog]

Is it just me, or is there something about party hunting the archery season or the muzzleloader seasons, that just dont seem right. Again, its my opinion only, and as a non resident, I'm sure it doesnt hold any value, but those types of hunts traditionally have been more solitary.

Again, I reiterate, that Iowa has party hunting for the shotgun seasons only, not the archery or muzzleloader, and it seems to work out well here.

[archerystud]

If you are going to get rid of party hunting abolish it for every season/weapon.

Two years ago I shot my buck (a 3.5 year old)on the first night out with the bow. I did party hunt with my dad but didn't shoot anymore deer.

However if there was no party hunting, I would have still went out, although I would have been armed with some sort of camera instead of a lethal weapon.

[Bowfin]

The DNR has ruined my hunting by trying to be everything to everybody, and increase revenue through extra seasons and tags. The end result is a lot of dissapointed hunters who didn't enjoy their hunts as much as they used to. If the harvest is top ten, but we hunted twice as long to achieve that harvest, is that really a success? We have more and longer seasons than ever, with more accurate and powerful weapons to use. Of course we can keep our harvest rates up, but I would like to know how many hunter hours per deer we had 5 years ago vs. last year. By increasing opportunity, they have decreased the value of the hunt and the deer.

What? I had a great time last year even though I went deerless in both the Wisconsin and Minnesota seasons. I would say those who like the hunting experience and not just the shooting experience don't mind spending a lot of time in the woods to try to figure out and shoot a buck. I think we've been watching too many hunting videos and want the whole State of Minnesota be full of food plots with a half dozen protected bucks in them during broad daylight so we can decide which one is a "shooter".

As far as hours hunted per deer, I think back to the early 80's sitting in northern Minnesota - if you hunted hard all week you may have see 3-4 deer and might have gotten a shot at one. We would then go home having had a great time waiting for next year to come.

We have more deer now than we ever have historically - let's enjoy that.

[Getanet]

"We have more deer now than we ever have historically - let's enjoy that."

Great point Bowfin. I was listening to Fan Outdoors on KFAN last night and the DNR rep mentioned that in MN we harvest more geese than any state in the country. Yet the approval rating in MN among goose hunters is 60%.

I know that's off topic for this thread, but the point is we're never satisfied and rarely stop to think how good we have it.

Human nature I guess...

[CodyDawg]

There are a lot of things that could be done to help bucks mature. Among the folks that dont want change....lets assume you HAVE to pick one of these, which one would you pick (ie find LEAST objectionable)?

Eliminate party hunting

Move the firearm hunt out of the rut

antler point restrictions

Buck license restrictions (ie draw a buck tag)

any other ideas?

I think it would be good to know which idea is the least objectionable to the folks who DONT want change. And conversely, which is the most objectionable.

[Big Dave2]

There are a lot of things that could be done to help bucks mature. Among the folks that dont want change....lets assume you HAVE to pick one of these, which one would you pick (ie find LEAST objectionable)?

Eliminate party hunting

Move the firearm hunt out of the rut

antler point restrictions

Buck license restrictions (ie draw a buck tag)

any other ideas?

I think it would be good to know which idea is the least objectionable to the folks who DONT want change. And conversely, which is the most objectionable.

If I HAD to choose between the above restrictions, I would say that moving the season out of the rut would be the least objectionable to me. This does not take away opportunities, it just delays them.

Most objectionable would probably be antler restrictions.

[lakevet]

There are a lot of things that could be done to help bucks mature. Among the folks that dont want change....lets assume you HAVE to pick one of these, which one would you pick (ie find LEAST objectionable)?

Eliminate party hunting

Move the firearm hunt out of the rut

antler point restrictions

Buck license restrictions (ie draw a buck tag)

any other ideas?

I think it would be good to know which idea is the least objectionable to the folks who DONT want change. And conversely, which is the most objectionable.

Least objectionable move firearm hunt out of the rut

Most objectionable eliminate party hunting

Moving the firearms back would be returning it to where it originally was back in the 1940's 50's 60's.

Good approach to the discussion CodyDawg!

lakevet

[Getanet]

I chose "any other ideas?" Just kidding. Moving the hunt out of the rut is least objectionable. Most objectionable is eliminating party hunting.

I think you'd have a revolt on your hands if you tried to make it a "draw a buck tag" situation.

I also disagree with those who feel the regulations regarding shooting bucks will change in the short term. I think there are two big issues working against it 1) The Insurance lobby 2) License fees (I don't think the DNR would do anything to discourage people from hunting - and putting restrictions on what people can hunt would discourage some).

[Bear55]

Not to sound too much like an a$$ but why do we have to baby the people that might quit hunting if there is any little change to the regs. If you love to deer hunt you will do it no matter what. Now I understand that the DNR would never want to promote a mass exidous of deer hunters but if a few regulation changes keep you on the couch you probably won't be out hunting 5-10 years down the road anyway.

[Neighbor_guy]

Because the entire focus of our deer season is to Eliminate as many deer as possible. The only worry the dnr seems to have is how many deer are shot. What size deer doesn't seem to matter,

a 140" deer counts the same as an 8" deer (1).

If they move regular firearms out of the rut, less deer will be killed, numbers will go down, hunters will bail, and revinue will reflect it. It all boils down to the almighty $$$$$. Less deer hunters mean less cash to play with.

We live and hunt here. Play the hand you are delt, if you dont like it, toss in your cards, pick up your chips, and step away from the table. WI, IA, ND, SD, WY, KS, or any of the provinces will be happy to take your money......

Starting to sound like a bunch of whinners and cry baby's around here......

[Getanet]

I agree Bear, but some of the changes people would like to see to promote bigger bucks aren't "little" changes. As this thread has shown, party hunting is a tradition for many. Going "draw a buck" or implementing antler point restrictions are pretty large changes.

[MOSSY]

why should the majority of hunters have to comply with the minority.I believe most hunters in this state like the seasons as they are. moving the season back would eliminate a lot of kids,elderly and females from the ranks because of the cold.

maybe that is what you would like. not me

[Big Dave2]

Not to sound too much like an a$$ but why do we have to baby the people that might quit hunting if there is any little change to the regs. If you love to deer hunt you will do it no matter what. Now I understand that the DNR would never want to promote a mass exidous of deer hunters but if a few regulation changes keep you on the couch you probably won't be out hunting 5-10 years down the road anyway.

Why do we have to baby the people that want changes? Will you quit hunting if we leave it the way it is?

[BuckKiller]

the deer are getting beter and beter every year... leave it the way it is.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

Not to sound too much like an a$$ but why do we have to baby the people that might quit hunting if there is any little change to the regs. If you love to deer hunt you will do it no matter what. Now I understand that the DNR would never want to promote a mass exidous of deer hunters but if a few regulation changes keep you on the couch you probably won't be out hunting 5-10 years down the road anyway.

Why do we have to baby the people that want changes? Will you quit hunting if we leave it the way it is?

That would be a big negative. Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people, I'm more in favor of making a few small changes to see how things work out. My whole point was if guys quit hunting over a few small changes they must not be into it in the first place. Other hunting and fishing regs change yearly, I don't see a lot of people quitting, that ones that do probably didn't care for it any way.

[Joe15]

It give the deer almost no chance at all. You get 5 guys walking through a grove and another 3 or 4 posting. Any deer anyone that someone wants...they are almost garunteed to get.

I vote yes

[BuckKiller]

why fix what ain't broken

[Bear55]

If you look at the size and age structure of our buck population I would say things are a little broken. Or at the very least the numbers are very unnatural due to over harvesting of bucks.

[Jameson]

...at the very least the numbers are very unnatural due to over harvesting of bucks.

...then lets have a buck lottery!

[Big Dave2]

Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people,

Just remember, hunting in general is a lot of different things to a lot of people.

The way things are set up now, you and I both have the opportunity to shoot the deer that we choose. Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

Change is a lot of different thing to a lot of people,

Just remember, hunting in general is a lot of different things to a lot of people.

The way things are set up now, you and I both have the opportunity to shoot the deer that we choose. Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

Right now I'm for no part hunting of bucks. So yes I am in favor of diminishing your opportuity to shoot mulitle bucks but do you really feel you or anyone else deserves to shoot more than one buck a year?

As far as a buck lotto or antler restrictions, for whatever reason if they come up for a vote I would vote yes because right now I feel we need some kind of change. However I think we can both agree that they might not be what is best for the state and that more than likey they won't be happening any time soon, if ever.

[DaveT]

Under your "changes" you would still have your opportunity but mine would be diminished.

The problem BD, is that I'm sick of having the opportunity to pass up small bucks hoping for a big one that doesn't exist. Or exists in such small numbers as to make it next to impossible to kill one. I have hunted a lot of places and I know that a hunter who puts in his time and hunts smart will have an opportunity to shoot a big buck once or twice a fall in most of the states we've talked about. Whether that hunter cashes in or not is up to a lot of other factors, but he will have that chance. The way things are now I am not getting my opportunity, unless I leave the state. I am sick of hearing about how many big bucks we have in MN, what we have here is a joke compared to the other states I've hunted. I do put in my time here. I do get off my butt and scout. I put in twice the effort in MN than I do in other states because MN is where I live and hunt the most. But I haven't seen a P&Y buck in MN in 3 years. By doing away with buck party hunting, the only opportunity lost is the opportunity to be a game hog, you will still be allowed to kill a buck, just not multiple bucks. It amazes me that ducks and pheasants are put on a pedestal and deer are treated like vermin. You can't party hunt for birds here, but you can fill 10 freezers with venison, as long as you have enough tags.

Why can't an animal as magnificent as a whitetail deer get as much respect as a merganser?

[MOSSY]

BIG DAVE2 IS RIGHT

SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ALL SEASON TO HUNT AND WANT TO HAVE SOME VENISON.YOU CAN STILL PASS ON THE SMALL BUCKS IF YOU WANT.

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO LET HIM GROW SO YOU CAN SHOOT HIM LATER.

I DON'T EAT THE ANTLERS