Moving the Firearm Season

[BLACKJACK]

It literally dumbfounds me with some of you on this site that seem to actually be opposed to having larger deer in MN. Seriously, what is your problem? Do you really like shooting dinks year after year after year?

[BeezeHound]

Bear55, I believe that muzzy season started two weeks after firearms season this year. Everyone in my group saw multiple deer everyday with the rifles. Not even a fraction of what was seen was put on the ground, we don't do deer drives and we don't walk around the woods. Explain to me where all the deer we were watching during the firearms season went because between two of us muzzy hunting only saw 1 deer and only a couple sets of tracks just passing through the woods, and hunted 10 days. Same thing happens every year so you can't tell me that a couple weeks doesnt make a difference.

[Big Dave2]

Not me. I wouldn't be willing to watch from the sidelines during the best time of the year. Archery harvest constitutes what... 10-12% of total harvest? A good portion of the bowhunters I know pass on young bucks anyhow. And rightfully so, we have over 3 months to get the job done. Taking away archery in November wouldn't accomplish anything but give a defense to the gun toters who cry foul.

I would have to argue that the 10-12% number would significantly rise if there was no gun hunting during the rut. There are not very many archers in the woods at this time of year presently because they either don't want to be out there with the guns or they grab a gun themselves and become a gun hunter for a week or two.

There would also be many more people taking up the sport of archery if thats all that was allowed during the rut. Bow sales would go through the roof.

I just thought that if the bowhunters think that we should move the gun season so that it does not fall during the rut, "for the good of the deer herd", then I figured that the bowhunters would for sure be on board to do what is supposedly right.

[Musky Buck]

Bottomline, it's 2008, I am very doubtful we'll ever get back the glory years no matter what we do with bow,rifle,muzzy. Personally I am very happy with the amount of mature bucks in all three of my areas. No one I know around where I hunt shoot the little bucks so we have several really good ones around every year. It would be in my best interests to have that more statewide so I could get some people off my fencelines, they know I have had better than average success with mature bucks so they have surrounded me to the best of their abilities, maybe if there were a few more better bucks around they would go on others land because of carrying capacity and not all run deep in my swamps. Technology has really changed hunting and fishing, for better or worse and we'll never get back to the glory days. They didn't even last very long in a way, 1971 no deer season and I think dad said 1974 1 day season. 1983 was a 2 day season actually pick 3 days bucks only or apply for a doe permit for the 2 day second weekend. I loved it, but I think the multi-zone buck tag and then the all-season buck tag hurt our buck numbers and age structure. I didn't abuse that tag, but I think many did. I think those tags allowed for quite a few guys to take multiple bucks, having 1st weekend hunters tagging what bucks a group got and "saving" those multi-zone or all-season tags so guys would have their buck tag to use the next weekend or for muzzleloading. I think those tag options hurt the state, kept more guys out that already had shot a buck, now they could shoot buck #2 and maybe more depending on tags, and then even go muzzleloading with an open buck tag. Those tags kept a lot of extra hunters afield and a lot more bucks fell because of it.

[Shoot2Kill]

Originally Posted By: Shoot2Kill

It literally dumbfounds me with some of you on this site that seem to actually be opposed to having larger deer in MN. Seriously, what is your problem? Do you really like shooting dinks year after year after year?

Shoot the messenger if you want but with comments like that who's the psychic?

[96trigger]

Quote:

There would also be many more people taking up the sport of archery if thats all that was allowed during the rut. Bow sales would go through the roof.

If thats all it takes, why doesn't everybody do it. The week before the firearm season is the prerut, that can actually be better than the rut, so why isn't everybody picking them up now?

The reason not everybody picks up a bow is that not everyone has the time and resources to do it. I think sales would go up, but not necessarily through the rough.

It's not that hard, I don't know why some of you can't understand that some of us are not horn porn guys, its not even so much that I want to see bigger bucks, we are hunters, just like you. I am really starting to come to the conclusion that those young bucks are just so stupid, that we should give them a chance. As a bonus for out sportsmanship, in a year or two, we would all start seeing older bucks. I am not a horn porn guy, I'm not like other guys I know that see a nice deer, and all they can say, is "AWWW I woulda passed on that, he's only gonna score around 140". Thats not many of us, I think most of us just want to see the forks and baskets get a little bit of a reprieve. If it means, I have to shoot more does, well then darn, I guess I'll have to. If it means going from a 5 deer area to a 2 deer area so the population doesn't get hammered, I'd do it gladly.

[Musky Buck]

Poaching would go through the roof as well.

[Bear55]

Bear55, I believe that muzzy season started two weeks after firearms season this year. Everyone in my group saw multiple deer everyday with the rifles. Not even a fraction of what was seen was put on the ground, we don't do deer drives and we don't walk around the woods. Explain to me where all the deer we were watching during the firearms season went because between two of us muzzy hunting only saw 1 deer and only a couple sets of tracks just passing through the woods, and hunted 10 days. Same thing happens every year so you can't tell me that a couple weeks doesnt make a difference.

Its called pressure, every rifle season the deer get pounded and only the ones smart enough to hide are going to live. Plus a lot of the deer you saw during the rifle season are now in people freezers. If you are hunting non pressured deer a bit later in November the numbers will still be there, probably not what you would see during the rut but that is the whole point of moving the season back. You really can't compare the muzzy season to a later rifle season when the deer haven't been pressured.

[Musky Buck]

Non pressured deer later in November pending cold temps and snow, that will quadruple the number of deer on my 3 lands leaving others with squat, I say yes definitely to a later rifle hunt!

[inspec_brad]

Non pressured deer later in November pending cold temps and snow, that will quadruple the number of deer on my 3 lands leaving others with squat, I say yes definitely to a later rifle hunt!

ARE YOU DONE YET? HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED YOU TO TELL US THAT YOU HAVE 3 PARCELS OF LAND WHERE DEER HERD UP WHEN THE SNOW COMES? FIND SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO TELL US(JUST NOT OVER AND OVER)!!!!

[Shoot2Kill]

Non pressured deer later in November pending cold temps and snow, that will quadruple the number of deer on my 3 lands leaving others with squat, I say yes definitely to a later rifle hunt!

You crack me up man...you need help with all those deer?

[Shoot2Kill]

Poaching would go through the roof as well.

When?

[BeezeHound]

Bear55 I've been hunting for many years and yes, I realize that pressure affects deer and many have already been taken with firearms before the muzzy season, but I was bow hunting after firearms season and was still seeing plenty of deer up until the first snow that stuck around. Then, like every year, they disappear into the neighbors pines for wintering like I had mentioned before. It happens to all of the properties adjacent to these pines, and the pines are loaded up after the first snow. I've been lucky enough to be invited over there for a couple muzzy hunts and it's unbelievable. So you cannot convince me that hunting later would not be any different.

[Shoot2Kill]

Bear55 I've been hunting for many years and yes, I realize that pressure affects deer and many have already been taken with firearms before the muzzy season, but I was bow hunting after firearms season and was still seeing plenty of deer up until the first snow that stuck around. Then, like every year, they disappear into the neighbors pines for wintering like I had mentioned before. It happens to all of the properties adjacent to these pines, and the pines are loaded up after the first snow. I've been lucky enough to be invited over there for a couple muzzy hunts and it's unbelievable. So you cannot convince me that hunting later would not be any different.

Where abouts are these pines? Sounds like a good place to shed hunt.

[sticknstring]

Wait until you get 500,000 hunters in the woods. Holed up in the pines or not, the deer will be moving. Sometimes adjustments need to be made. A woodlot I hunt has been dead all season, I made the choice to drive 35 minutes to start hunting Sherburne. I'm seeing all kinds of deer now. Change isn't always easy, but sometimes, the grass IS greener on the other side.

[jltimm]

If some of the "rifle" hunters actually tried bowhunting they'd realize alot of things.

You don't have to shoot every deer you see.(have to be within bow range)

You will become a better hunter by watching alot of deer and noting their behavior. (instead of blazing away with the almighty gun!)

Basket rack bucks are an easy target even for bowhunters! (so let them live)

Does are good eating, and alot of times hard to take with a bow.

You feel like you really earned your deer when you get them with a bow.

[96trigger]

Quote:

If some of the "rifle" hunters actually tried bowhunting they'd realize alot of things.

You don't have to shoot every deer you see.(have to be within bow range)

You will become a better hunter by watching alot of deer and noting their behavior. (instead of blazing away with the almighty gun!)

Basket rack bucks are an easy target even for bowhunters! (so let them live)

Does are good eating, and alot of times hard to take with a bow.

You feel like you really earned your deer when you get them with a bow

Can I get an AMEN, Brother...

I have nothing against gun hunting, I do it, but there is no comparison. Those that say its just as easy are either ignorant, or lying.

[BeezeHound]

Wait until you get 500,000 hunters in the woods. Holed up in the pines or not, the deer will be moving. Sometimes adjustments need to be made. A woodlot I hunt has been dead all season, I made the choice to drive 35 minutes to start hunting Sherburne. I'm seeing all kinds of deer now. Change isn't always easy, but sometimes, the grass IS greener on the other side.

I don't disagree with you that the deer would be on the move when the hunters hit the woods. However, why would I want to drive to another location when my family owns 200 acres of land that deer call home from late April through the first substantial snow fall? I would prefer to hunt the deer that I have been patterning all summer and fall than to drive to some place that I have no knowledge of. I would also like to be able to hunt the deer that I know are in my woods rather than having to wait for them to get scared over from a neighboring property first. We've tried everything on our property from planting food plots for all seasons to creating sanctuaries throughout the acreage to try and keep them around during the winter months, but they just don't stick around. There's nothing special about the neighbors property other than the great cover the pines provide them during the tough months of the year. I would much rather see antler restrictions, heck even earn a buck as much as I don't want to say that, before I would want to move the season back. Thats just my 2 cents but what do I know, I only hunt deer from bow opener through the end of the year and according to some I have no idea what the deer do in my neck of the woods, lol.

[Musky Buck]

BullMN what I really was saying is colder potentially later rifle hunting would put a lot of hunters sol. November is when the change takes place, a nasty november and many people won't have a single deer on their property.

[BLACKJACK]

You feel like you really earned your deer when you get them with a bow.

I agree with that 110%!!! If it wasn't for the fact that I gun hunt with relatives and its kind of a tradition, I'd give up gun hunting completely.

[BLACKJACK]

There's nothing special about the neighbors property other than the great cover the pines provide them during the tough months of the year.

I think you hit on the answer right there, plant more pines and spruces on your property if you want to keep them around.

[BLACKJACK]

The basis of everything I've posted in this thread is about why people wouldn't want to see more bucks and have more opportunites at them.

And all I've tried to do is point out that there IS a downside to QDM. You make it sound like any deer hunter that wouldn't want big bucks is an one-who-thinks-I-am-silly. Its all in how you frame the question. Ask someone if they'd want to be a millionaire? Of course they would!! But then tell them that they'd have to work 16 hour days for 25 years and live in a 15 foot trailer. Mmmmmm, they'd rethink that wouldn't they?

The same way with your 'why wouldn't people want to see big bucks' rant. Of course all deer hunters would!!! But there IS a downside to managing stictly for big bucks and thats what I was pointing out.

[BeezeHound]

Originally Posted By: BoozeHound

There's nothing special about the neighbors property other than the great cover the pines provide them during the tough months of the year.

I think you hit on the answer right there, plant more pines and spruces on your property if you want to keep them around.

We don't have the money, time or areas cleared big enough to equal the 40 acres of pines the neighbor has. It would be such a shame to cut down that many acres of oaks too. Its really pretty simple for me, we see plenty of decent bucks each year, by decent I mean that 2.5 to 3.5 year old range, so I don't see a need for pushing the season back at all.

[inspec_brad]

BullMN what I really was saying is colder potentially later rifle hunting would put a lot of hunters sol. November is when the change takes place, a nasty november and many people won't have a single deer on their property.

I know what you were saying, and so does everybody else. You just told us alot.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: sticknstring

Wait until you get 500,000 hunters in the woods. Holed up in the pines or not, the deer will be moving. Sometimes adjustments need to be made. A woodlot I hunt has been dead all season, I made the choice to drive 35 minutes to start hunting Sherburne. I'm seeing all kinds of deer now. Change isn't always easy, but sometimes, the grass IS greener on the other side.

I don't disagree with you that the deer would be on the move when the hunters hit the woods. However, why would I want to drive to another location when my family owns 200 acres of land that deer call home from late April through the first substantial snow fall? I would prefer to hunt the deer that I have been patterning all summer and fall than to drive to some place that I have no knowledge of. I would also like to be able to hunt the deer that I know are in my woods rather than having to wait for them to get scared over from a neighboring property first. We've tried everything on our property from planting food plots for all seasons to creating sanctuaries throughout the acreage to try and keep them around during the winter months, but they just don't stick around. There's nothing special about the neighbors property other than the great cover the pines provide them during the tough months of the year. I would much rather see antler restrictions, heck even earn a buck as much as I don't want to say that, before I would want to move the season back. Thats just my 2 cents but what do I know, I only hunt deer from bow opener through the end of the year and according to some I have no idea what the deer do in my neck of the woods, lol.

BooseHouse

So if the first substantial snowfall comes in Oct the deer vacate your land? Since we have never had a later rifle season I would say there is no sure way to determine anything. I would be willing to bet you would get your fair share of deer during a later rifle season. All we really have to do is look at Wisconsin, they shoot plenty of deer with a late rifle season.