dnr deer management (or lack there of)

[Bear55]

I agree lumpging all the QDM people with trophy hunters and chest thumpers is a little short sighted. One of my best seasons was last year. I didnt tag a buck but I saw some action, I was on public land so I hunted long and hard to see that action but it was great to see some chasing and a hint of a real rut. You can learn a great deal more about deer by watching them then you ever will blasting the first spiker that walks by. Every mature buck I have shot I passed up a younger buck earlier in the day, had I shot those small deer I would have never even had an opportunity to take a mature buck. Looking back through the years I really wish I would have started letting the little guys go sooner, who knows what might have been behind them.

[CSTPETER]

I've been following this thread for a few days now and finally Slim hits the nail on the head. I would venture to say that the guys who go and shoot a small buck just because it's a buck are the ones who are feeding their ego. I think most of the hunters that practice QDM are more connected to the land and the resource. These guys have decided to make a commitment to the critter and help it reach it's full potential. I personally have been a convert to QDM for the last 10 years or so. In that time I've taken two 130 class deer, one archery and one rifle. Maybe more rewarding than that is the ability I've had to watch the maturation of certain deer. You get to know them, and you actually find yourself rooting for them. I am fortunate enough to hunt both private and lightly hunted public ground during archery season, but once rifle season rolls around watch out. It's pretty depressing to see the campers and atv's roll in from points unknown, hunters who barely know the lay of the land, let alone The makeup of the deer herd pile into the woods and many of the animals that you've been watching and passing on for the last 6 months become the ego boost that these guys need. Of course it's all legal and most of the time exactly what the DNR wants...Success for everyone in order to keep the cash flowing. I just think there's got to be a better way to manage this resource to allow more of these animals to reach their potential. Do I have the answer. No. But In my case I'll move toward leasing as much private ground in the area that I can and manage it the way I feel it should be managed. Go ahead and complain about lack of access and detriment to the sport if you'd like, the way I look at it is simply this: Why would the "brown it's down crew" want to be hunt there anyway when the rest of the state is being managed to suit their needs?

[B. Amish]

Quote:

You get to know them, and you actually find yourself rooting for them.

Isn't that the truth. I've been fortunate enough to have some hunting success in my past. But the last few years, I've followed a couple of bucks from 1 1/2 to 3 1/2. Last year, I harvested one of the 3 1/2 year olds. This year, there is another 3 1/2 year old that is plenty big to thrill just about anybody. But, I have absolutely no problem if I don't harvest him this year. When you follow and pattern an individual animal for a couple of years, you develop a tremendous amount of respect for them.

I'd feel the same way about a doe if I could learn to identify them by some unique characteristic.

[ricqik]

We don't need any more restrictions, other than for safety reasons. I'd love to bag me a nice trophy but we seem to want to regulate more towards sport more than anything. This is the same deal with fishing. It's always I want a big rack, screw the meat hunters, who cares if they shoot a deer, as long as I can get me a trophy in due time. You think you know it all, yet you fail to realize it's what you want and assume it's good for everyone else. Leave things the way they are. You want a trophy, go to a ranch or outfitter. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to make a sport out of everything. The animals we harvest are not a sport, never was from the beginning, we made it that way and have lost track of mother natures intent. I would love nothing more than to bag a trophy, but not this way. I want to bag him because he naturally outwit things in his life to reach such size, not because we basically grew him up to ripe age. That's no different than growing your own lunker bass in your backyard pond and goingout to catch him when she's big enough. It just doesn't have the sentiments behind it. You will one day regulate yourself out of hunting and fishing all together.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

We don't need any more restrictions, other than for safety reasons. I'd love to bag me a nice trophy but we seem to want to regulate more towards sport more than anything. This is the same deal with fishing. It's always I want a big rack, screw the meat hunters, who cares if they shoot a deer, as long as I can get me a trophy in due time. You think you know it all, yet you fail to realize it's what you want and assume it's good for everyone else. Leave things the way they are. You want a trophy, go to a ranch or outfitter. I'm sick and tired of people wanting to make a sport out of everything. The animals we harvest are not a sport, never was from the beginning, we made it that way and have lost track of mother natures intent. I would love nothing more than to bag a trophy, but not this way. I want to bag him because he naturally outwit things in his life to reach such size, not because we basically grew him up to ripe age. That's no different than growing your own lunker bass in your backyard pond and goingout to catch him when she's big enough. It just doesn't have the sentiments behind it. You will one day regulate yourself out of hunting and fishing all together.

Can a brother get an Amen! Nicely done!

[archerystud]

You know.... for all those who think us "QDM er's" are all about our ego and just think about making the magazine covers. I would say its everything but that!

I havent tagged in 8 dam years. I watch these deer 365 days a year. I take their their pictures, I feed them, I find thier sheds, I wantch them grow from fawns in to hopefully mature animals. I have names for them for heavens sakes. I pour hundreds and thousnads of dollars into these deer, and all I want is to see them live to maturity and show their potential. These deer are like friends, like pets. Its a passion and I think I have every right to be upset when someone shoots one just "cause its legal" and then they throw the antlers in the corner of the garage and forget about them.

QDM means having 100% appreciation for the animal. Letting them grow up, living a full life. How can you look down on a system like that. I think the whitetail is an incredible and fascinating animal and I dont see any reason to wipe them off the map at 1 1/2 years old!

Years ago we could keep 6 big walleyes, 3 big pike, shoot 6 hen mallards...... its was your "right" then but the DNR has changed it. Do you all wish they hadent because you dislike the state to regulate you? I think those were needed changes and were for the better. Just as QDM is or would be for the future of deer management. Just because some things are legal doesnt make them right.

And another Amen brother!

[ricqik]

If QDM is all about growing animals up to mature status, why aren't people who are strong believer in it posting pics of nice mature doe. It doesn't sound like 100% appreciation to all deer, more like to just bucks with a sizable antlers. All I see are bucks with big racks ran in mags and ads that are on ranches, outfitters or private land managed as QDM, very few are from natural high pressured public land where the buck actually grew up under natural circumstances with natural outside involvement. I know QDM peeps talk about and harvest does too and they do, for a balance herd but disregard it publically. It was never about quality deer, it was about quality bucks. You see, again it is all about the antler, it's purely for sport, regardless of how much you want it to not sound that way. In that sense it's no longer for the good of the deer but for ones self of enjoyment and bias towards getting a buck with sizable antlers. It all falls right back to raising/growing bucks just to be harvested, a sport.

[sparcebag]

This therad changed to QDM??

All I have to say is their out there! YOU gotta find them and its hard with 500 thousand in the woods all over the state! Their smarter than us and in their environment that you seldom enter!

I saw a ten pointer shot once 20 yds away layin in a rut,only saw a antler,5 guys standin there shootin the breeze,lookin right at him,till one said look at that branch it looks like a antler,Well one with a scope scoped it out! Fired! 10 point semitrically perfect waitin for us to leave.

I've hunted since 1960 took my share of large deer with great racks! Work for em dont expect to grow em! If you expect that go to a farm or Texas and shoot a big racked deer Buck that weights in at 140-160.

To sum it up deer big ones are there they dont come easy! HUNT EM DONT expect the state to grow em just for you.I'm all for NOT hunting the rut unless its archery!! But then you trophy hunters will seldom or never see one! Thats just the way it is going into their territory!

[Shoot2Kill]

If QDM is all about growing animals up to mature status, why aren't people who are strong believer in it posting pics of nice mature doe. It doesn't sound like 100% appreciation to all deer, more like to just bucks with a sizable antlers. All I see are bucks with big racks ran in mags and ads that are on ranches, outfitters or private land managed as QDM, very few are from natural high pressured public land where the buck actually grew up under natural circumstances with natural outside involvement. I know QDM peeps talk about and harvest does too and they do, for a balance herd but disregard it publically. It was never about quality deer, it was about quality bucks. You see, again it is all about the antler, it's purely for sport, regardless of how much you want it to not sound that way. In that sense it's no longer for the good of the deer but for ones self of enjoyment and bias towards getting a buck with sizable antlers. It all falls right back to raising/growing bucks just to be harvested, a sport.

It is utterly amazing how different many points of view are in MN - this state where many deer hunters have never had a close encounter with a mature buck because of the "I gotta get my deer" mentality and the view points of our neighbors to the south where just shooting a buck to get a buck is really a thing of the past for people that have spent more than a couple seasons in the woods. If more people saw big bucks, the mentality in MN would slowly change, argue all you want - they would and you know it. It's just unfortunate that many people aren't willing to let it happen. Wouldn't you honestly like to harvest a buck you could be truly proud of vs just shooting one and tossing the rack in the garage never to be seen again? I think just shooting one to say "I got my buck" is more of "sport" than someone trying to live up to the standards they set for themselves and will settle for nothing less than something they can actually be proud of.

This season is gonna be sad in the lottery areas where people can only shoot 1 buck unless they drew a doe tag....lots of little guys are gonna get whacked, if this same season happens next year again, it's gonna be tough to ever see a deer that's 2.5 and then the cycle continues...the people that have never seen a mature buck never will and will continue to rag on the QDM guys and the QDM guys will continue to rag on "I got my buck" hunters. Good luck this fall everyone and if nothing else, be safe!

[Shoot2Kill]

Here's something to think about....

How many people in this great walleye state have let a walleye go so it can get bigger? I can about bet EVERYONE on here has said it "let it go so it can grow up and maybe we'll catch it again someday".

Aren't you happier when you land a big one one that you can take a great picture with and can actually brag about to your buddies at work?

What's the difference?

[Jameson]

fish and deer compare poorly.

The "trophy" guys and the "meat eater" guys are both pleased by letting a 25" walleye go. The "trophy" guys are pleased, because that one fish may become a 30"+ trophy. The "meat eater" guys are pleased, because the fish could potentially create a thousand 15" eaters.

The "trophy" guys are pleased about letting a basket 6 go, because it may grow to be a huge 12 with big mass and spread. The "meat eaters" don't eat antlers, or tag soup, and that one buck isn't a doe that is going to produce future deer.

If only big bucks produced babies!!!!

[Red Miller]

This has turned into to quite the discussion. Here is another thing to think about: My buddy shot a nice 14 a few years ago. Awesome critter and the talk of the camp. After getting it back from processing, the meat was so bad the dog wouldnt eat it. The antlers are impressive but the rest of the animal went to waste. ...just a thought.

[Eskimoman]

I have eaton old bucks. No the meat isnt as tender as a fawn or yearling, other than steaks you really cant tell the difference espesially if you mix it with pork.

Here is my point of veiw. If you want meat shoot a doe. That way you help the deer herd and let small bucks grow. If you arent going to mout a buck or display it and be proud of it why shoot it? Shoot a doe and get the same meat. Now if you have never shot a buck or are a new hunter and would be just tickled to shoot a basket or spike go ahead and take it. I wont look down on you. If you are the hunter that shoots that deer year after year I don't care but I sure dopn't want to hear you complain about not seeing big bucks. I personally wait fo big boys but I dont feel everyone should be forced to do the same.

[sparcebag]

Well in my home we eat the deer so first one in my bow range is my deer.I always did it this way and will continue,if it happens to be 10-12 point or larger its yet taken same with a spike.I dont hunt to puff my chest but puffed it luckly a number times.

I dont believe in state wide QDM its biased

I dont mount any wildlife or fish,and seldom take a pic! Only when I get them alive will I boast! And I have.

[jbell1981]

IHere is my point of veiw. If you want meat shoot a doe. That way you help the deer herd and let small bucks grow.

Thats great in managed or intensive areas, but a good portion of the state, especially the southern and western is lottery area with few very doe tags being offered. The majority of people in these areas will shoot the first deer they can legally tag weather it be a monster, a spike, or one of the few that got a doe tag. Most of this area is also used to only having a 2 day season as well, which doesn't help. This is the first year that is has been different. The "if its brown, its down" mentality is still very much alive in these areas and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[ricqik]

You totally missed the point. They should call it quality buck management not quality deer management.

[96trigger]

Here is my trophy doe, after hunting the 3B "doe season" to fill the freezer.

Here is the one that I worked my but off for last year on state land. I shot it 2 days before firearms.

Here is the one that I am working my but off for right now, I probably won't get him. I had him at 15 yards tonight with no shot, then I got busted, if he just would have taken 4 more steps. Call it what you want, but I am hoping to get another crack at him, or I will be rooting for him to make it through the firearm season. I am not a hardcore QDM'r. I hunt a lot of public land, I know that its not MY deer, anyone that hunts in the area has an equal crack at him, its just the way it is.

As for the lottery guys, some small bucks are going to get whacked yes, and that is fine by me. I think the DNR has it right, you need a good herd base before you are ever going to get the bigger deer. This is going to happen at the expense of the bucks and is in essence, a step backward to go forward, but I think it has to done. When the population rebounds in those parts of the state, then the hunters there can decide if they want to practice QDM.

The buck I am chasing now is probably 3 or 4 years old, maybe 5. He didn't get that big by being stupid. Bucks have an uncanny way of surviving. This guy came very close to biting it tonight, but something made him look up, then the brakes were on and the gig was up. Tomorrow, I'm going to skip lunch and move that stand because I have a short time and it is now useless. How many people would do that, especially considering I'll maybe sit in it 1 or 2 more times max, when the guns come out, I don't hunt there any more.

[Eskimoman]

I should also add there are plenty of big bucks in the state and think the dnr does a fine job in trying to please everyone and keep a stable deer herd. Hunting will never be like it is on tv. Simple as that. But there are plenty of big bucks for those willing to work for them.

[Shoot2Kill]

You totally missed the point. They should call it quality buck management not quality deer management.

Missed the point of what, please enlighten me.

[Shoot2Kill]

Here is my trophy doe, after hunting the 3B "doe season" to fill the freezer.

Here is the one that I worked my but off for last year on state land. I shot it 2 days before firearms.

Here is the one that I am working my but off for right now, I probably won't get him. I had him at 15 yards tonight with no shot, then I got busted, if he just would have taken 4 more steps. Call it what you want, but I am hoping to get another crack at him, or I will be rooting for him to make it through the firearm season. I am not a hardcore QDM'r. I hunt a lot of public land, I know that its not MY deer, anyone that hunts in the area has an equal crack at him, its just the way it is.

As for the lottery guys, some small bucks are going to get whacked yes, and that is fine by me. I think the DNR has it right, you need a good herd base before you are ever going to get the bigger deer. This is going to happen at the expense of the bucks and is in essence, a step backward to go forward, but I think it has to done. When the population rebounds in those parts of the state, then the hunters there can decide if they want to practice QDM.

The buck I am chasing now is probably 3 or 4 years old, maybe 5. He didn't get that big by being stupid. Bucks have an uncanny way of surviving. This guy came very close to biting it tonight, but something made him look up, then the brakes were on and the gig was up. Tomorrow, I'm going to skip lunch and move that stand because I have a short time and it is now useless. How many people would do that, especially considering I'll maybe sit in it 1 or 2 more times max, when the guns come out, I don't hunt there any more.

Awesome buck man, congrats!

[96trigger]

I've been on this sight for a long time, I have never seen a discussion get this long without eventually getting shut down. I'm glad that people can actually voice their opinions on these issues and not get called names, etc...

This thread turned to QDM because that is what it was basically about. DNR regulation of the deer population. In doing that, they are also regulating the buck population. Which always leads back to QDM.

[Bear55]

I should also add there are plenty of big bucks in the state and think the dnr does a fine job in trying to please everyone and keep a stable deer herd. Hunting will never be like it is on tv. Simple as that. But there are plenty of big bucks for those willing to work for them.

There are big bucks in this state but they aren't everywhere and there are not plenty of them. I would say most of the QDM are your highly dedicated deer hunters who do work their tails off to get the big buck. They hunt archery, rifle, and muzzeloader seasons, they plant food plots, they spend more time scouting than hunting, they practice strict scent control, and they go the extra mile in every way. I feel hunting mature bucks is about the odds, the more you work and scout the more the odds are in your favor. However when there are very few mature bucks to begin with your odds start so low it would take a small maricle to connect. I have a few friends who have moved out of the state, they see many mature bucks throughout the season and have taken some nice ones along the way. These guys don't put half the time in that I do and were not that successful back home. Did moving out of state magically turn them into big buck killers, I highly doubt it.

[96trigger]

I really think it depends on where you are at. Some places do have a good population of large bucks, others do not. I know that if I don't get the big guy I'm after, I still have a fairly good shot at a different buck that would be considered mature. There is more than one roaming around here.

but I should add, I put in a lot, and I mean a lot of time, scouting, planning, showering, etc... to see these guys. It isn't easy at all. I can't tell you the number of areally nice bucks I probably would have gotten if only I would have had a gun and not a bow. The big guys are smart, they are one of the toughest animals to hunt. There senses are so finely tuned, I swear that buck last night heard me breathing. Tough, Tough, Tough. Every once in a while, that trophy does land in your lap. Its never happened to me, I've had to work for every deer that I've shot with the bow, and every one has been a trophy to me.

[Shoot2Kill]

Originally Posted By: Eskimoman

I should also add there are plenty of big bucks in the state and think the dnr does a fine job in trying to please everyone and keep a stable deer herd. Hunting will never be like it is on tv. Simple as that. But there are plenty of big bucks for those willing to work for them.

There are big bucks in this state but they aren't everywhere and there are not plenty of them. I would say most of the QDM are your highly dedicated deer hunters who do work their tails off to get the big buck. They hunt archery, rifle, and muzzeloader seasons, they plant food plots, they spend more time scouting than hunting, they practice strict scent control, and they go the extra mile in every way. I feel hunting mature bucks is about the odds, the more you work and scout the more the odds are in your favor. However when there are very few mature bucks to begin with your odds start so low it would take a small maricle to connect. I have a few friends who have moved out of the state, they see many mature bucks throughout the season and have taken some nice ones along the way. These guys don't put half the time in that I do and were not that successful back home. Did moving out of state magically turn them into big buck killers, I highly doubt it.

Great post. I 100% agree. I have roommates from college that live in western IA, SE IA and Kansas - I get literally sick to my stomach listening to their deer stories and how many bucks they pass each bow season - not just all dinks...they are passing bucks that almost anyone in MN would shoot in a second. This state just doesn't have it. Are they here, yes, are there lots of them, absolutely not - it's not even close to the same caliber of deer hunting and I guess that's what is so frustrating for me. Having been "spoiled" growing up in Iowa I guess I have a different view. However, MN is a great state for many things those other states don't have so I guess you take the good with bad and try to make the most out of it - and continue to pray that the right job opens up back home and you can move back.

[CSTPETER]

You totally missed the point. They should call it quality buck management not quality deer management.

This is a pretty typical response from guys that haven't taken the time to understand QDM. Personally, I love to shoot does and that is where nearly all my table fare comes from. There is a huge difference between being a "trophy hunter" and practicing QDM.