how much can these lakes take

[Nick Kuhn]

http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/reports/final/polkbonelakemusky2005-2006.pdf

For those who like reading.

[b1gf1sh1]

hate to beat a horse to death ... but... alot say education is a big key, truth is it does help. handling, benefits of release vs harvest, effects of heat, bigger the fish the more fragile and why/where, so on and so forth.... all of it needs to be common knowledge throughout the fishing community as a whole for all species of fish for it to be effective. in order for that information to be distributed in the amount needed to be effective? even that needs a dollar amount.

everything costs money, from paychecks to paperclips.

IMHO, without it we are just dreaming. yea to muskie stamp. it solves several issues, from the once in a lifetime accident catch on a worm by a panfisherman needing to release it to more cash for the proper education of the public to stocking, so on and so...

side note... it's amazing how many avoid the rivers around here. i know the reasons, i've been dealing with the issues for years. just in case you don't know theres a awsome untapped resource a short drive from where you live right now. read some of the posts about rivers and in the metro forum if you think i'm joshing you. rivers put a whole new spin on muskie fishing. consider it next time your out on ''your'' lake competing with thirty guys on two hundred acres. then envision me all alone on thousands of acres and miles of water waving at walleye, bass, and cat fishermen, without another muskie lure in sight for days on end. too many give up the ghost really quick. i know the reasons, i just don't understand why. it's worth it in the end game. good luck.

[cjac]

Good discussion thus far, let's keep it that way too......

I do find it interesting that this post in 24 hours has 25 replies and 650+ reads, while a post from a month or so ago that asked for muskie anglers to contact the DNR in support of the Long Range Muskie Plan drew less numbers in both categories in a few weeks of being an active post. Point being: instead of asking the DNR "what have you done for me lately..." turn it around and ask what have you done yourself lately?

browndog made a valid point in my opinion......we're all a part of the traffic, it's not just the other guys. I'm just as guilty, as I was out last night in the metro throwing the fashionable baits of today. So, I'm guilty as well. That's the point I took from browndog's post and it made me think a bit. Along those lines I stay clear of 'tonka more or less until October.

Speaking of 'tonka, the initial post from tonkapat hits on the lack of respect and decency we've all seen from recreational boaters and other anglers. Getting cut off, followed, leap-frogged on a spot is a major buzz-kill. I've had to bite my lip so many times this year it's beyond reason. I wish I had an answer for the lack of law abidance and respect. I got buzzed by a pontoon going full speed through the "no wake" channel between East and West Rush this past weekend. Didn't see any pontoon trailers at the launch, so most likely a lake resident. To top it off, he waved to us......complete disregard for the water rules and laws.

TC Chapter of Muskies Inc has a $30k order in for 1,000 fish, so they are doing a TON as muskiemojo said, both in action (stocking) and in word (plan support). Anyone that's not a MI member can sign up now and your dues are essentially buying a fish, pretty cool really! You could, in theory, catch a nice 40ish inch fish in White Bear or 'tonka in a few years and say "I bought that fish a few years back!"

The stamp idea is cool in theory but so difficult to enforce. I can throw a 3/4oz spinnerbait for pike (which I do) and say I'm pike fishing. It's the same as the three week window between opener and muskie opener. If you like the idea of a $10 stamp, send a check for $10 to Muskies Inc., I highly doubt they would turn it down. That ties back to my initial point of what we, as the concerned and future-minded anglers can do.

A few thoughts of mine, I may come up with more. All that said, I'm looking forward to more football & soccer, hunting, cool weather....things that cut down on the number of anglers and leave more acres for guys and gals like us that "get it".

[Shack]

Quote:

You drive across the north end now and see 5 boats. Last year it would have been over 100. I think

I have translated this into the boom/bust type theory. Good reports go around town (Paper, bait/retail stores and internet) of any given situation and people run out to that situation to find out reality strikes quickly. Plus, I also give these big fish more credit for survival than most. They get caught a couple times and their brains start correcting their patterns. Maybe I am wrong. Catch and release is huge right now. Some make it and some do not, but at least the effort is strong.

Also, when you see a spot, structure, hot spot with a ton of boats on it, how many of those fisherman are actually catching fish? These fish move out of areas with high pressure and put the clamp on feeding. At that point you have to be out on that reef, break or drop off at 4:00am on a Wednesday to get that fish to bite your lure again.

On guides and taking people to their spots. I have a high respect for guides. These dudes have proven them selves in the locations and species of fish they guide for. They have pulled the trigger and are making a living at doing so. I feel the majority of their clients retain a high level of respect for what the guide has shown them. Sure, some return to those spots and some might brings others. The one little thing about this is, it will correct its self with undo amounts of pressure on that certain spot. The fish move. The guides are on the water all the time following the fish. Thus, Joe client gets skunked 4-5 times and hires said guide back to find where the fish are at again. It works out in the end .

As far as pressure and dealing with a ton of boats on your spot, look at it like a fun time. Have fun and get to know others. After a couple skunk trips (like we all get most of the time), they will move on and you will be their when the spot turns hot again.

(IMO), people go out a couple times and do not get fish, they start to cry wolf that the fishery is going under. At that point it is time to take a break and do other things. With me and cat fishing, I am coming off of the worst streak I have had in years. I know the fish are in their, but I can not nail where they are at. Same with ML and muskies, but that tenth trip after being skunked, I will find a fish and then the whole game of fishing will be put back into prospective once again for me . If I caught a big one every trip, fishing would loose some value for my self .

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

The stamp idea is cool in theory but so difficult to enforce. I can throw a 3/4oz spinnerbait for pike (which I do) and say I'm pike fishing. It's the same as the three week window between opener and muskie opener.

easily solved. ... not every lake has muskie. no oversized lures on any muskie water without a stamp.

whether fishing for northern or bass. no lure obviously not meant for smaller fish. happen to catch a muskie on a worm? throw it back. what do you think? i'd say no fishing at all on water with muskie without a stamp, but that's a little extreme.

[Nick Kuhn]

Quote:

The stamp idea is cool in theory but so difficult to enforce. I can throw a 3/4oz spinnerbait for pike (which I do) and say I'm pike fishing. It's the same as the three week window between opener and muskie opener.

easily solved. ... not every lake has muskie. no oversized lures on any muskie water without a stamp.

whether fishing for northern or bass. no lure obviously not meant for smaller fish. happen to catch a muskie on a worm? throw it back. what do you think? i'd say no fishing at all on water with muskie without a stamp, but that's a little extreme.

It'd be a lot easier to just charge an extra $5 for all licenses and then divide up the extra funds by %angling effort.

And Chris it's always easier for people to complain than it is to be constructive. I'm actually trying to steal some pages from the long range plans for my lake over in WI. Currently trying to get the fisheries biologist to meet with the lake association. Coincidentally it's the lake association that ruined the lake in the first place.

[uplander]

Great post, great suggestions! I like the idea of every muskie fisherman just sendind MI ten bucks that would be great for them if they just started getting a bunch of random checks for 10$....Or maybe us muskie fisherman here at FM should come up with some kind of fund raiser and donate all the money to MI or just go buy some muskies ourselves and have them released( I'm sure there's some red tape with that one)..But it could probably get done.

Someone earlier said with great reports comes great pressure.Thats true but it also helps prepetuate the sport...Inovators start figuring out new ways to catch pressured muskies...creating new baits.. fishing areas of the lake they normally wouldn't fish and we progress.

With good stocking effort and good sportsmanship I think the lakes will be fine...The musies on Mille Lacs are still there someone just needs to get up there and figure out how to get them to bite.....Great post again....good luck out there stay out of the way of flying muskie baits....uplander

[pisces]

Not to worry. From all I've read the past few years, fishing license sales are declining. The young generation are more interested in sitting in front of the TV or game console and are not interested in (or being introduced to?)the great outdoors. So, if this info is correct, the overcrowding situation will self-correct over the next couple decades.

Yes, I know, you were talking about this year, next year, three years from now. And I am speaking somewhat tongue in cheek, but here is still some validity in this statement.

[Croix]

Not to worry. From all I've read the past few years, fishing license sales are declining. The young generation are more interested in sitting in front of the TV or game console

I can attest to that, a lot of my buddies are too lazy to go fishing. Thus the reason I am usually out by myself. My father and I do get out quite often though in the summer which is always great. I am trying to get my younger brother into musky fishing but it is a work in progress.

[Rmac]

I would say the percentage of musky fishermen is way up.

I don't see too many guys in there twenties out there backtrolling for walleyes. They're either in those riduculous wakeboarding boats acting like idiots or throwing the big stuff.

[Shack]

Quote:

I can attest to that, a lot of my buddies are too lazy to go fishing. Thus the reason I am usually out by myself.

I can relate to that. In my case though I get calls mid-week from a couple of my buddies about getting out this weekend, but they want to go for cats. I mention ML and muskies, they do not call me back .

I had one of my closest cat buddies say last week “When you get a couple, call me”.

[Rogerio1]

If it makes anybody feel better, I haven't put one in the boat all year.....lol. its probably because I have not hit up Minnetonka, WBL, Bald Eagle etc. But maybe thats the answer.

I know the more hours on a body of water the better you get to know it, but we should spread it out a little. Where is people's sense of adventure and discovery. I have made it a point this year to visit a different lake everytime I go out. results may not be as consistant, but experienceing something new everytime is a lot of fun. it will take pressure off of popular lakes and help you broaden your skills at the same time.

I cant remeber whos sig says something like: "go the extra mile and it will bring you to some of the best fishing".....I couldn't agree more!

[MuskyBrian]

I cant agree more w/ JRedig. I often wonder how much can these lakes take. How much longer? I do often feel bad for the fish and dont mind if they get off before they make the net or boat, many are really beat up and dont look good. Heres my opinion why i dont think it will be long until we are all really struggling to get fish, escpecially big fish. 1. Its not just Minnesotans fishing MN, its the whole upper Midwest now 2. Cowgirl, doesnt take much skill and kills alot of fish (back hook down the throat) 3. Too many fishing guides pounding these lake to a pulp every day (makes it tought for others) and giving up so much info on those trips (the client can really take that info and are already up to speed on location and lures).

I dont see many bass or walleye guys like i used too and often wonder how good bass and walleye fishing may become soon. W/o more lakes in my opionon, it wont be long till these lakes are toast. Lakes cant handle all the pressure, you have guys from all over the midwest, poor releases, awesome fish producing lures that dont take much skill, is my opionon why it wont be long till fishing muskie fishing really take a dive. I live in the metro, i do wish NE WI was a little closer and that may be the area w/ alot less pressure and good lakes to pick from????

I have to go back to page one on this thread and call this guy out. Pardon my bluntness, but this has to be one of the least thought out statements I have ever seen on this board.

First off, Can you explain how Cowgirls don't take much skill? Or better yet, can you explain exactly what lures DO take skill and which ones don't? I have caught fish on a Suick before, should I be more proud of that because it took more skill?

A Cowgirl is a big bucktail...Bucktails have been around a long time, including bucktails with big blades. The "skill" is being in the right place at the right time on the right lake. If you think it is so easy, ask the people on Mille Lacs this year just how "little skill" was required to haul in fish after fish.

Now the real dumb part. Cowgirls kill fish? As opposed to which baits that don't kill fish? Again, it's a bucktail, if a fish wants to suck it in, it's going to happen regardless of the bait. Personally, I have handled quite a few cowgirl fish and there has never been anything close to a deep throated hook.

You also stated that you feel happy when a fish gets off...

??? Maybe it's time to find a new hobby????

Sorry to vent, but sometimes people need to use their brains and think before they type!

[updecreek]

Alot of Guys dont fish to eat walleye And the guys that do you will not see them throwing muskie baits. Fishing is a sport. There out there to get the big one not waste time back trolling for a 22 inch walleye to eat? or a 28 inch walleye to mount or c*p*r or a chance of a fish of a life time FLATHEAD i mean 55 inch muskie. I will not eat any fish south of cambridge.

[Scottie Thomas]

If there are 100 lakes in the state that have a fishable muskie population in them then the pressure is going to be heavy on those lakes until we get more water to fish. Walleye and bass guys have 15,000 to choose from while muskie guys get 100. In my opinion muskie guys have a huge responsibility to take care of the few lakes that are out there. That means responsible catch and release, not just preaching it but doing it, having all the necessary release tools in the boat and using them when needed. Ya muskies swallow cowgirls (maybe pinch the back barbs down?), they chow every kind of bait if they are hungry enough, just having the right C.P.R tools ready and the knowledge to use them can save fish. Doesn't matter if you fish once a year or 90 days in a row, successful catch and release happens far before a fish ever hits the net, be ready for when ya hook one!

[Jay Hanson]

Brian, have you caught alot of fish on DCG? Maybe its just me and the 5 other guys i fish with...for some reason the DCG vs say a (harasser or single bladed tail) alot (not all) fish seem to totally inhale the complete DCG where the back hook is starting to go down the meaty part of the throat. I have talked to alot of other people that have the same thing happen. No doubt the lure catches alot of fish, i have to assume its just not me and the 5 other guys i fish w/ that have had fish die more often w/ cowgirls than previous to the DCG. If you have spent alot time on the water and alot time w/ the lure then may understand what i am talking about more. IMO i dont think using a DCG takes alot skill vs some other great catching baits. Especially dawgs, pounders, glide baits, etc.

[JRedig]

Now the real dumb part. Cowgirls kill fish? As opposed to which baits that don't kill fish? Again, it's a bucktail, if a fish wants to suck it in, it's going to happen regardless of the bait. Personally, I have handled quite a few cowgirl fish and there has never been anything close to a deep throated hook.

That has definitely not been my experience with the double bladed baits. I've had more fish crush/inhale those things than any other bait in my box. Sure they don't always get hooked deeply, but I caught 5 fish yesterday on double blades of various sizes and everyone of them took quite a bit of time to get unhooked thanks to swallowing the bait. I don't think i've killed one yet, but i'm definitely nervous about the fish eating these baits deeply everytime I throw one.

-Jeff

[DHanson]

To Slow Rollin's defense, I have fished with him a lot, and he has had several throat hooked fish on cowgirls. It was truly unreal how deeply hooked they were. I even tried myself to unhook his fish with no success. We had all the proper release tools, knipex, hook pick, mouth spreaders, long pliers, and nothing would work. My fishing partner last week had 2 fish swallow lures and he did the "through the gills" operations with some success. I personally have had 1 fish completely swallow a lure this year, and yep you guessed it, it was on a cowgirl. It's not that fish won't swallow other lures, but it seems that they swallow cowgirls (double 10 type lures) more often than other types of lures.

[MuskyBrian]

I would estimate I have been in the boat with somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 DG fish over the past two years. Have never experienced a deep throated hook, just hooks that were cleanly buried in the jaws that maybe took a little extra time to undo. I go out there all the time with the proper release tools, if things don't go well it sucks but..That's the risk you take. I'm out there to get fish in the boat and I worry about all the other stuff later.

As far as the skill thing goes, there really is no wrong way to work a bulldawg..Not really sure why you feel that takes any more skill then a bucktail. To me any fish that was intentionally targeted and legally caught counts the same in my book.

[TheHawgTrough]

Interesting thread. I wonder how many guides would say the fishing is better now than it ever has been, despite the lakes getting pounded? Doesn't seem like people are catching any more of less fish than in the past. I think some of the poor fishing (Mille Lacs) may be more related to increase in forage, then getting pounded by anglers.

As far as fish getting beat up, they heel quickly and should be fine again come Spring (as long as you aren't ripping their jaws apart). They probably take more of a beating during the spawn then getting caught a couple times a summer.

[bonelach]

I agree with rmac. I get that sites like this one are a very helpful tool and a great way to converse with fellow anglers. But there has to be some truth to the fact that guys get on here and see everyone talking about the same 2-3 metro lakes. Then you add in factors such as gas prices, and people are far less willing to travel 100+ miles one way to fish for a day. So why not fish right here in our backyards? (depending if you live in the metro)

So what you get is over pressured lakes and cross-eyed muskies from lokking at baits buzz over their head all day. Plenty of my once "secret spots" are now ruined because of fishing pressure pushing fish off the spot. It's just something that everyone is going to have to deal with like it or not. If you get tired of boat traffic, go fish some tigers, or a less "chatted" about lake.

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

As far as fish getting beat up, they heel quickly and should be fine again come Spring (as long as you aren't ripping their jaws apart). They probably take more of a beating during the spawn then getting caught a couple times a summer.

please tell me your kidding. just a little info... when a fish is in the spawn the beating they take is all done underwater where there is plenty of oxygen. even fish need oxygen for the brain to function and properly regulate bodily functions. like heartbeat, and organ function. without oxegen those critical functions needed to sustain life don't work correctly. equilibrium is lost and the brain functions in a haphazard way for several days, sending irregular signals to the organs resulting in unusual fatigue, and can result in permanent irreversible damage. it takes upwards of a few days for a fish of the size we're talking about just to recover, if it even does, from just a couple minutes out of water. the larger the fish the worse it is, because larger fish need more oxygen to keep everything going, and it takes longer for that supply to be replenished once it's lost. 5 minutes can really do alot of damage, including brain damage, add to that carelessness in handling and you have a dead fish swimming away after release. please keep your fish in an oxegen rich environment as much as possible. unhook in the water let it rest in the net, or livewell, if you need a pic for posterity take it out, click, click, back in the water.

[cjac]

Interesting thread......1600 views as well.

Bottom line, there's a lot of us fishing muskies and that's not going to change. Plus, looking at the weekend reports a lot of fish were caught and seen, a good sign for things to come this Fall for sure.

There's an emerging debate in regards to the handling of fish as well.

Couple thoughts:

Think about how long a fish is out of water the same as how long your head was held underwater. Somewhat of a crude example, but it illustrates the point. 15-20 seconds, you're OK. Beyond that discomfort and panic (lactic acid build-up), beyond a minute...serious trouble. Again, just an analogy, but something to consider.

Do you have the right release tools? This is a self-assessment of ones gear. Sufficient sized and coated net, cutters, pliers, jaw spreaders, hook pick are all a must-have in my opinion. I was a guilty offender....fishing with a guy a couple years ago and he looked at my $12 hardware store cutters, and said those are #$%*@. He was right....went and bought a Knipex and did a test with those vs. my $12 cutters. No comparison. Conversely, he looked at my $4 file for sharpening hooks and said "great idea".

Have a plan: Once you hook up and a fish hits the bag....then what? Leave the bag in the water. Know where the boat is so you don't end up in trouble on a rock reef. Know where your tools are. Basically be prepared for a catch, not caught off guard. If you want a pic, then consider your camera as the final release tool, have it ready. I'm sure there are hundreds of Vince Lombardi quotes about preparation, I'm not a Packer fan, but he has a point.....

No one is perfect, but we all can position ourselves and the fish being released for tomorrow.

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

Think about how long a fish is out of water the same as how long your head was held underwater. 15-20 seconds, you're OK. Beyond that discomfort and panic (lactic acid build-up), beyond a minute...serious trouble.

all this ''after'' you just fought to basicly complete exaustion in a cage match with Chuck Liddel in some cases. at that point, 15-20 seconds might even put a major strain on you. your body would need more oxygen wouldn't it? awsome analogy cjac. not crude at all. IMO

[JRedig]

I get fish in as quick as is safe or allowable and always give them several minutes in the net of calm once they're unhooked before picking them up for a pic. I'd highly recommend the same to anyone else muskie fishing. I've always had fish swim away very quickly/briskly, no belly rollers yet. As of late, I'm not even netting a lot of them, just getting them up to the boat and getting hooks out, buh bye. Gonna have to a big one to get netted.