Buying new. What can I ask for?

[morlie822]

Hello all. New MF member and my first post.

My wife and I (we're both 50) have decided to buy our first boat. We've determined that our needs fill be filled with a 16-footer, single console new -vs- used, '07/'08 Lund or Alumacraft in the $12-15k range. The package deals I've looked at include fish finder, trolling motor, trailer upgrade, etc... And I pretty much have the gear I need necessary to hit the water.

In my opinion I've always done a good job buying new vehicles; driving away feeling like I got the better end of the deal. Buying a boat however is new territory for me and I'm wondering what "extras" I can ask for as part of the deal close? The extras I'm looking for would be: travel/storage cover (custom, perhaps?), transom saver, extra seat, 1-2 season motor maintenence are a few that come to mind.

I'd like to make my decision by this weekend after visiting the Northwest Sportshow. I'll put at least 20% down and finance the balance for the longest term possible to keep my cash-flow options available. I've always gone with long term loans but pay off usually within 50-60% of the term length.

I'd rather pay close to retail for the package and have as much of the afore-mentioned items included than get a lower price and have to buy the add-ons at retail. I'm in sales myself and realize that the dealer is in business to make a profit but what types of add-ons can I ask for without looking like a a$$? I can easily walk away from any deal, and have the patience to keep looking until I'm satisfied.

Any feedback to help close the deal would be appreciated. Thanks.

[polarsusd81]

The things you were talking about, transom saver, extra seat and motor maintenence for a couple years along with a standard cover, would probably be workable. Typically when looking at new boats, especially with the sportshow and all the other shows that run through the winter months, there is a bonus package that comes with a new boat. Sometimes you get 500 bucks worth of boating gear and accessories, sometimes more, but at the range you are looking at spending, 500 seems appropriate. I haven't bought a new boat, but I am always watching to see what happens. Sounds like you have what you want pretty well figured out.

[youngie22]

tough question... going to the sports show is probably your best bet. I would use all those dealers in one spot to your advantage. figure out EXACTLY what you want, find who all has it, find the sales men or managers from those stores and started the wheelin' and dealin. you may not wnat to hide the fact you have your pen and checkbook ready, and that ABC boat company has already thrown in this and this and also this try try to close the dael w/ them... and counter w/ what would yo like to offer me? Good luck, welcome to FM, and let us know how ya did.

[PerchJerker]

Welcome to Fishing Minnesota and good luck with your boat buying.

I'm more of the opinion that I'd rather get as good a deal as I can on the boat / motor / trailer, and not get a bunch of "other items" thrown in the deal. But that's probably because I've already got the other items, or else I know what I want and where I want to buy it, and therefore I don't want the dealer involved. The approach you're taking where you want to have the dealer include as many of those as possible is a good approach too, since those items cost the dealer the wholesale cost and not the full retail price you'd normally pay (so in theory you can get more stuff for less money).

Incentives and promotions can come from 3 soures -- the motor manufacturer, the boat manufacturer, and the dealer you buy from. Motor manufacturers are more likely than boat manufacturers to offer cash back or extended warranties, but be sure to look into those. Some boat companies put together a 'new boat' package every year that may include things like a travel cover, leather jackets, rain gear, etc. (I'm not sure if alumacraft does that or not, usually those types of promotions are heavily advertised). The dealer may put together something like a show special where they include some things like an "electronics package" or something like that. I think the key is to realize and differentiate between those 3 sources so you know what you're getting, and from whom.

After the basic boat / motor / trailer, many dealers offer some type of "electronics package". They usually consist of a graph and a trolling motor, and in my opinion it's usually not a very good graph and the trolling motor is usually on the small side for the boat. So my advice there is to pay close attention to what they're providing, and consider if you need to upgrade it or maybe go buy them elsewhere on your own.

Things that I think you should make sure you get, whether they're standard or need to be added, are travel cover, spare tire, jack stand, transom saver, boat buckle tie down straps, bearing buddies, and extra seat. Boat buckles are really convenient compared to regular tie-down straps.

Make sure you don't skimp on the trailer, some dealers will put as small a trailer under the boat as possible, which can be a long-term recipe for hassles or more serious trouble. I think a trailer upgrade to a heavier trailer, and maybe surge brakes although your boat may be a little small for that, is very worthwhile and can be part of your negotiating tactics. And while they don't look the greatest when new, galvanized trailers sure are nice a few years later when the painted trailers are rusting and full of rock chips.

You have a good idea about asking to have first year or first two years of maintenance covered - 20 hour check if it's a new motor, and winterizing at the end of the year. Even if you pay parts but get free labor it's still worth up to a few hundred dollars. Depending on how you plan to store your boat over the winter, negotiating for storage may be beneficial too. And make sure the dealer isn't going to charge you for rigging (something I hear more and more of is dealers "throwing in" the first hour of rigging time but then charging for the rest, etc.). In my opinion it's better to have all the rigging included in the deal.

I've also seen packages offered that include things like anchors, ski ropes, life jackets, water toys, etc. Up to you if you want or need that stuff.

Another tip for buying early in the year like this, you may be able to save some money by finding new non-current boats or motors. Ask for them if you're interested. The savings won't be huge, but it all adds up and it's still a new boat / motor with full warranty.

Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck and have fun shopping.

[BoxMN]

I would also rather try to work with the dealer to get a beefier/better trailer and possibly first 20 hour checkup included rather than the usually not-as-good electronic options or "paddle and ropes" type options.

Also, as was mentioned, a spare tire is a must, I can't even believe a dealer would not include that, but I guess that is just my thinking. I think a cover is almost always included in the boat show deals, although a cover you can have made from a good shop (snap on) would be a much better cover.

Good luck, have fun shopping! (and max out those horses )

[Sandmannd]

Everything posted is great and couldn't agree more. One thing you might want to see is if you can upgrade to electronics with GPS. I got that with the newer boat I got a year or so ago and they are very nice to have. Especially out on big water.

[EricD]

I can’t add much except I feel your pain. I talked to a lot of dealers about their price on the basic boat, motor and trailer and used that as a starting point. That way I could look at the package on the boat I wanted and compare the components to the retail prices from retail sports stores. Otherwise, I found myself looking at whatever price I wanted to pay for the extras and saw the boat/motor/trailer price fluctuate. In the end, I found a dealer who would nail down the basic price for me and then I started adding on the options I wanted. Prices for products like Lowrance and Minn Kota don’t change much. When all was said and done, they ended up throwing in first service, winterizing and storage and a few Lund baseball caps. At least I knew they were truly extras instead of things I was paying for at the other end of the deal. The best advice I got from this board: if you’re happy with what you get for what you paid, don’t look back. Good luck!

[rodmaker]

First of all welcome to FM !!! Good post and you will get alot of great feedback.

You picked a good place to go down to and look at boats.

I would make sure that the motor is in the top 10% or higher of the max hp ratings.

You need at least a 1200 lb trailer. Go with a roller trailer. Stay with Shoreland'r.

Sometimes they will throw in an extra seat, cover. If you can, see if they will at no charge do a 20 hr maint check after your break in period if you purchase a new motor.

If they get pushy, walk away and go to a different dealer. It should be a fun experience purchasing your first boat.

Let us know what you end up with.

[BobT]

One possible misconception.

At one time it was thought an advantage to display cash but not always advantages anymore. This is especially true if you are planning on using the dealer's financing. If the dealer is financing, many times they make part of their money on the finance charges of the loan. Paying cash takes that away and so they may not be as easy to deal with. Whether you pay cash out of pocket or obtain a loan elsewhere, the dealer is getting cash anyway either from you or the bank you got the loan from so there's no gain there either.

About the only time I can think of where cash is an advantage is if the dealer is offering zero interest for a period of time in which case they have to wait for the money. Now, cash is better because they don't have to wait and there's no cost to write up the paperwork.

Something to keep in mind.

Bob

[EricD]

One thing I forgot to mention. Most promos are terminal. For example, Lund is offering an extra seat and Mercury is offering longer warranties. These offers expire and I understand they use them to fill up the slots they have for manufacturing ordered boats so, when the date is up, the offer goes away. Be sure to check into the deadline for freebees.

[NCLaker]

I would suggest asking around for opinions on the type of buying/service experiences people have had with the specific dealer you are purchasing from.

I had a friend buy a $40,000 boat with all the bells & whistles and ended up with a lot of problems with how they set it up (tried give him different items then what was on the order) and some things not working properly. Also had issues with them getting things fixed after recieving it. To make it worse the dealer was 1.5 hours away.

Had another friend that bought a used boat from a dealer, brought it back to the same dealer to service a compression issue - said it would take a few weeks, didn't get it back for 3 months. Ended up missed out most of spring and summer fishing the first full season of owning the boat.

[MuskieJunkie]

 Originally Posted By: rodmaker

I would make sure that the motor is in the top 10% or higher of the max hp ratings.

I've never heard that rule of thumb before but I like it. If you've ever had a boat with an underpowered motor you would agree too.

[rodmaker]

I was told that by Halberg marine at least 15 years ago, and have heard this from others as well after they bought their boat. And found this out the hard way.

With some of the packages out there to save money, they put a motor that will handle two people fine. But any more than that, they become underpowered with all the gear and things.

I've followed this rule and it has worked well for me.

[Nick Kuhn]

 Originally Posted By: rodmaker

I was told that by Halberg marine at least 15 years ago, and have heard this from others as well after they bought their boat. And found this out the hard way.

With some of the packages out there to save money, they put a motor that will handle two people fine. But any more than that, they become underpowered with all the gear and things.

I've followed this rule and it has worked well for me.

I would agree. Our boat is rated for 75 Max and that's what we have on it. With just one person you can easily exceed 40 which is plenty fast for most situations. You put 4 people with gear in it and it tops out around 35, so not too much of a drop. A guy I work with though has a 50 on a boat rated for 90. He says it really struggles when the wife and kids are in the boat. He's looking to upgrade.

[Down Deep]

My advice is to get what you want when you buy the boat.

You need an extra seat, cover, spare tire, wavewackers, sonar, batteries and trolling motor. If your are going to buy at all, buy now to get the incentives. Lund, Alumacraft, Crestliner all have great boats that can fit the $15,000 price cap. Others to look at are Lowe, Smoker, Tracker, G-3.

If you are going to the Northwest Show, go early so you have time to bargain. I bought a Lund boat there last year and had two dealers get into a bidding war for my business. It was all low key and dignified, but each kept sweetening the deal.

I made a deal with a boat dealer (Rapid Sports, Ham Lake) that was 125 miles away from my home. I had two issues with the boat after delivery. One they solved via Fed Ex by replacing my prop in one day and paid for the return of the other one. The other was taken care of by a local Duluth dealer who did some warranty work on some of the snaps on my cover and they calibrated my tach. I don't buy into the stuff about only getting good service from the dealer you buy from. They all want the business.

The other day I saw an ad for a credit union offering 5.0% for up to 10 years on new boats or rv's. I can't remember exactly where, I was reading a Minneapolis paper while waiting for an oil change. That is a good finance deal.

[rodmaker]

Yep,

You can't get them to "plane out"

[morlie822]

**UPDATE**

Heys guys. First of all, let me say thanks to everyone who gave me input regarding my initial thread question: "What Can I Ask For?". It says alot about the membership of a forum to ask for advice and get so many replies, so quickly. Kudos to Fishing Minnesota for providing this site.

Anyway, I just couldn't wait for the Northwest Sportshow and pulled the trigger today on the purchase of a new boat. I found the boat I wanted, from the dealer I wanted, for the price I wanted. I might've saved a few $100 or so by pitting dealers against each other at the show, but the value of a long term dealer/customer relationship was important enough to me reach an agreement today. They made a few bucks, and I'm thrilled; so how could I go wrong.

Here's the skinny:

I bought the new 2008 Lund 1625 Rebel XL SS. The nationally advertised "package deal" is $12395 plus dealer prep and freight (which is around a grand). http://www.lundboats.com/rebel_2008.html The package included a base Shoreland'r bunk trailer, 50HP Merc 2-stroke, with locator and troller.

I got the maroon/red anniversary edition model and I opted for upgrades to the Shoreland'r roller SLR2200 trailer, 60HP Merc 4-stroke. They added a third seat (and a fourth free from Lund), custom snap cover for the SportTrack rail system, transom saver, spare tire with trailer mounting bracket, custom color matching registration number decal and 1st season winterizing. I couldn't be more pleased and pick her up in a few weeks.

To protect the integrity of the dealer I won't disclose the final price for everyone on the forum, but if anyone is interested, they can send me a PM.

Now, it's off to the races to get the additional gear I need to hit the water! It's a good thing I sold an extra 50 shares of stock for the shopping spree.

[rodmaker]

Congrats!!!!! You made a wise choice on the Shoreland'r trailer and the merc 4 stroke. That was a "no brainer". You did your homework, and it paid off!!!

[PerchJerker]

Congrats on the new rig, I'm sure you'll be very happy together.

Gotta warn you though, they say the only days you really like your boat are the day you buy it and the day you sell it

[Schloogs]

Congrats on the new boat, you will love it.

[bassNspear]

Congrats on the boat. Hope everything goes well for you

[Sandmannd]

Congrats on buying a money pit!! They say BOAT stands for (bout another thousand) and it's true. Always things you can find to put on it. You did great on the boat you got for a good price. Great idea to upgrade the trailer and the motor, you will be much happier with that. Hope to see you on the lakes this summer, you will enjoy your new toy a lot.

[EricD]

Congratulations! It sounds like a great rig. We looked at that package when we went shopping a month or so ago and opted for something slightly different Lund package. I'd be interested in knowing if you were happy with the dealer experience. I know I was and it's good to know who the good guy's are. You can PM if you don't think it belongs on the board.

Good idea to upgrade the motor. I did that too.

[morlie822]

Eric,

I tried to send you a PM but the page said I needed to be an administrator to access the page. Sorry. My dealer experience was a good one.

[Sandmannd]

PM isn't turned on on this site, it would bog the site down. You would have to get each others email and chat that way.