Does DNR officer have the right to come into your ice house?

[Gary Crichton]

Hey if you have nothing to hide the checking will go quick and painless. C A said it, have your license ready to go. Also remember he is looking out for our interests. He or she will catch the guy or gal who's breaking the laws. I met our CO in our area and he was out checking people. We got checked around 4:00. We saw him back at the resort he came on from around 5:30 and he had checked out a few more people b-4 calling it a day after us. He checked 1 house and they had 40 perch and had their licenses(2 people). He came out of the house and heard something to his left. He said to us "THE SNOW MOVED". Found 25 more perch. Busted and he got supper also. LET EM IN.

[germanshorthairs]

I personally have no problem letting them in but I lock my door in my sleeper all the time. I do it out of safety.

[Boar]

You guys are just being nice cause you know they read this forum, Hee Hee just kidding. You certainly don't give up constitutional rights just because your hunting or fishing but you are engaging in highly regulated activities that will an must be enforced by the laws set forth for them. One DNR office told me a story, one time while on patrol he was walking down a dock towards a guy sitting there fishing in a chair with his tackle box wide open the guy turned around an saw him coming an reached down an closed his tackle box, (reasonable suspicion) an upon inspection found dope an a pipe. If you acting nervous around a CO while hunting an fishing, he's gonna check ya an check hard. A person has a resonable expectation of privacy an when a Co asks to come in you ice house or look in you trunk while you've been hunting an you say no, well you just opened up reasonable suspicion. If you have nothing hide why fight it, thier just doing their job an would rather be home or hunting an fishing with their family or freinds instead of getting a hard time from some inconsiderate [jerk-bait]. I dont like when people at work make my job harder either. My 2 cents boar

[L_Cappo]

well said boar.

[Tom7227]

It might have been well said, but Boar is wrong. Reasonable suspicion doesn't come simply from someone acting nervous, or from closing a tackle box. There has to be an 'articulable basis that there is criminal activity afoot.'

An earlier post indicated that a warrant could be obtained simply because someone refused access to a fish house. Not accurate.

I don't want to get into a lecture on search and seizure, but it isn't as easy as some think.

I also don't think that a professional CO is going to make a special effort to jack someone around for being unpleasant. If you challenge their authority you're likely to learn a lesson, but you don't have bow down either.

You're not likely to win an arguement with a law enforcement officer, and you sure aren't going to win a fight.

[kkahmann]

Thank You Tom--I was beginning to wonder if the Constitution didn't apply in Minnesota.

[cliffy]

 Originally Posted By: Tom7227

It might have been well said, but Boar is wrong. Reasonable suspicion doesn't come simply from someone acting nervous, or from closing a tackle box. There has to be an 'articulable basis that there is criminal activity afoot.'

An earlier post indicated that a warrant could be obtained simply because someone refused access to a fish house. Not accurate.

I don't want to get into a lecture on search and seizure, but it isn't as easy as some think.

I also don't think that a professional CO is going to make a special effort to jack someone around for being unpleasant. If you challenge their authority you're likely to learn a lesson, but you don't have bow down either.

BINGO!. Well said.

[hondavxr]

Just remember above all you still have your constitutional rights. Yeah its nice and considerate for you to let a Co in, but if you don't want to let him in, its also your right. That does not mean you are breaking any laws, maybe you just don't want to be bothered. I am a believer in constitutional rights. I have always let CO's in my house, but if a person doesn't want to let a CO in, its their right.

[fishuhalik]

Exactly right. You guys say you'd have no problem letting them barge into your ice house because you're not doing anything wrong. What about barging into your house? You're not doing anything wrong, so they can just come right in. You guys might laugh, but with politics it starts small and just gets bigger. One minute they don't need your permission to enter your fish house and the next they're busting down your door w/o a warrent.

God bless the constitution

[L_Cappo]

there is a diff between letting them in and letting them barge in.if your not doing anythnig wrong why not let them in?i have seen ppl get checked for acting nevous.also seen ppl get searched just because they didnt know the correct regs for that lake they were fishing.the c/os are tring to do there job.

[Sandmannd]

Yea, I don't remember saying it was OK to barge in on you. But if they knock I let them in. I always open the door and talk to other fisherman anyway.

[fishuhalik]

I agree, I'll always let a co into my fish house. What I was saying was that if someone just doesn't want to let them in, for whatever reason, they have that right, and for good reason. If a police officer knocked on your door and asked to search your house for no reason, would you let them? I personally would because I have nothing to hide, but again, if I didn't want them to, I'd have every right to tell them no

[Wanderer]

250XB was correct. A warden entered an occupied fish house and found a drug manufacturing facility. The state lost the case due to one of MN's most successful DUI lawyer's argument of entering a private premisis, or something like that, whithout a warrant. Unconstitutional, whatever the argument.

That really ticked me off when that happened. It was just another lawyer protecting criminals caught in the act for financial gain. Defend those who are misinformed, descriminated, or innocent and need to prove it. Or even to plea bargain. This precedent just gave criminals another leg up and put the C.O.s a step back in my opinion.

As mentioned earlier: Hunting and fishing is a REGULATED activity and ice fishing in particular is on PUBLIC water. The C.O.s should be able to enter at their own descretion. Sure, announce first, but still enter. A fish house is not your residence where the constitution was meant to protect your privacy.

Go ahead and compare your auto to your fish house and my opinion has a double standard, but I like it that way

A couple years ago on Mille Lacs we had a warden check us. Our 11 year old daughter was in a flip over doing a potty break in a bucket. The house was there strictly for that purpose, no fishing in it.

We told him what was going on in there but he flipped it up anyway and embarrassed both him and her. We were not offended. He was just doing his job.

[BobT]

 Quote:

It was just another lawyer protecting criminals caught in the act for financial gain. Defend those who are misinformed, descriminated, or innocent and need to prove it.

I know how you feel but one thing our laws provide is that each and every person has a right to defend himself or herself against accusation. We are all presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not the other way around.

The 4th ammendment to our constitution is there to protect us citizens from an oppressive regime and uncontrolled law enforcement. It requires that the state must exercise due process.

 Quote:

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, ...

If we don't hold our law enforcement to this rule then how will the truly innocent be protected? The only real effective way to ensure this is to declare the arrest unlawful. Any other means would make room for law enforcement agencies to go forward and violate the amendment "for the better good", which could easily be a matter of opinion. Anyone acting on behalf of law enforcement could then do what they please, to whom they please, whenever they please and the law would not protect the innocent.

It's easy to say that if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide but how many of us live perfect lives? Imagine sitting in your living room, enjoying a ballgame, and suddenly the door is busted open and a dozen officers begin searching your home just because they wanted to check up on you.

How do you feel about big brother?

Our system has its loopholes and flaws but it's still the best system in the world.

Technically, your home is on public property as well. None of us owns the mineral rights beneath our foundations and the state has the power to exercise eminent domain. A fishouse is an example of a personal effect and therfore is protected under the 4th amendment from unreasonable search and seizure. It's unfortunate when criminals get away with it because the arresting officer failed to exercise due process but that too is the law and they also must abide.

Bob

[kgpcr4]

If my daughter was doing her business and he just flipped it up on her out in the open i would knock him on his Arsee. That is pure B.S. i know they have tough jobs but if you did that to my daughter there would be the devil to pay. thats just not right. The constitution give us rights. Its not a bad thing to use them. That is what makes us different than trial by firing squad countries. Yes there are times it would be nice for the police or CO to just be able to barge in but thats not the law. In the Marines i swore an oath to the constitution. I believe in it. I defended it and i live under it! Nuff said! A few years ago i got pulled over for a tail light out. the cop asked to search the car. I told him no he could not. he called another deputy and he asked and i said no. well along comes a highway patrol. He asked and i said no. well after 45 minutes and a K9 walk around they just got in thier cars and were getting ready to leave and i told the HP to go ahead and search. he did and found nothing but my handgun and i have a permit. When asked why i did not let them search right away i told them there was no reason for them to search and its my right to say no. He agreed and away he went.

Just a note i have never not let a CO in. I try to help them do thier job.

[gulllakeguy]

Well said BobT and kgpcr4 I wanted to say/write the same thing but could not have said it better. I think some out there just love their fish and game so much they would be willing to give up their personal rights for it. I love them too but not that much.

[Wanderer]

kgpcr4,

I didn't include ALL the details as I usually don't have that much time to write a post.

I would have preferred he waited a couple minutes before flipping up the house or asked her to come out. As it was, it happened pretty quick, almost simultaneously (him asking, us answering, and him flipping). The whole time he was there checking licenses, she could hear what was going on through the canvas and had time to collect herself so there was no exposure.

I rubbed his embarrassment in his face a bit and he did apologize, but I don't think it warranted an arse kicking.

Others,

I'm always in favor of the preservation and literal interpretation of the Constitution. It truly is a defense against an over bearing Govt. But the reason for my double standard view on this subject is that before that trial, there really didn't seem to be an outcry that C.O.s were violating peoples rights by investigating fish houses the way they did.

Everyone knew the score and pretty much accepted it. It didn't get challenged until some meth heads got busted and hired a top buck attorney to keep from taking resposibility for their actions.

My memory IS a little fuzzy about how the relationship came about between the perps and this attorney (I do know his name and his brother in law), but I recall comments like "He took the case because he figured he could win it and get some publicity for his practice". They were quite proud of the business decision. No mention of being the savior of an unfortunate person's rights.

This is what I got out of a relative, not the attorney himself, after a holiday dinner. So take it for what its worth.

And not that I'm proud to admit this, but many years ago I was tagged for an extra line. I dropped down a pannie line during a slow tip up day with some friends. So this view is NOT coming from someone who has never had something to hide from a C.O.

I learned. Further, I know people take advantage of this hinderance for the C.O.s just because they can.

We're talking about little fishes here guys, and someone trying to protect our resources for us. We're not talking about bashing in the front door of my home and rifling through my stuff on a whim.

Yup, falls under the same jusridiction, but just not the same to me.

[Dooley87]

i agree with everybody that we really do need more co's out there and i always respect them and let them check out my set up, but i do favor the law that states they must gain permission to enter your fish house mainly for this reason.

i am used to fishing at our lake place in wisconsin and in the winter you get three lines, it is so nice to fish a jig and dead stick in the house and put out a tip up out at the same time. here in mn it sucks you only get two lines, when the fishing is fast one will do but when your fishing walleyes or weary panfish i just have to have a deadstick with some kind of plain livebait next to my jigging rod but i just love love love tip ups, just set one up and let it do all the work.

so i do fish three lines here in mn. i'm not going to lie. i know it breaks the law but to be honest the law stinks. if the bite is hot i just fish the jig stick and tip up but no matter were i go i just have to put out a tip up, so if i ever do get checked by a co i just reel up the rod my vexilar is in and then let them in if they ask why i have two holes in the house and a tip up out i just say that i don't want my vexilar geting tangled up with my fish so i put the vexy in a seperate hole.

if mn changed the regs to the same as wi with 3 in the minter and 2 in the summer i wouldn't care if the co's did barge into my house cause that is the extent of me breaking regs, and i only do it when the fishing is slow to try and catch a few weary fish.

[Nutty Fisherman]

Then do you fish with 4 lines in Wi when the law says 3?

[Dooley87]

no, i just like having the jigging rod on my right dead stick to my left and tip up outside. they also have a reg that states as long as your tip up is within viewing distance and you can attend it quickly it is legal. i beileve that mn you have to have it within 100 feet. dumb. i have some ht thermal tip ups with telescoping flags and you can see those clear across a lake, add a set of binocs and a couple more fisherman and you are set. mn needs to re-work their regs, i dislike cheese heads as much as the next guy but as far as fishing and hunting goes i prefer wisconsin, exept for the gosh darn expensive licenses for out of state.

[talltines]

I agree with everyone that is replying with rights protection. When it comes to anything to do with rules and regs. and laws, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. If a CO wants to come in my shack he is going to have to go though the ropes, I will excersize my rights to the full extent. I don't keep any fish, but I do like to fish two lines in my shack and a bonus tip-up outside. My point, as a catch and release fisherman I feel I am doing no damage to any fishery. So I am breaking the law with my three line set-ups, yet I am all about conservation of or natural resources. Sorry officer but I will have to say NO, until I reel up one line. KEEP ON KNOCKING BUT YOU CAN'T COME IN!!! We are already slipping slowly toward "martial law", always fight for YOUR rights, because they are YOURS. PEACE OUT!!!

[bturck]

Not all laws are good laws, but just because we personally don't agree with it doesn't mean we have the right to interpret it only to our benefit. Speed limit 60mph, but I'll drive 75 because I don't like being held up. hmmm 10 fish limit, no I'll take 20 cause the relatives are coming for a fish fry. Where does it stop? 2 lines in Mn means 2 lines. Fish more than that and pay the price. Maybe we should adopt SD laws, 5 lines and no closed season. Bill

[Nutty Fisherman]

I agree 100% with you bturck.

[2 pounder]

I find it strange that the rule breakers do not state whether the keep limits are too restricive.Where is the integrity of these folks. How about your taxes? Do you lie there too?I sure wouldn't want to hire any of you to work for me!!

[Dooley87]

i am as strict when it comes to following rules and regs as the other guy, but i don't see it as a big deal to have out an extra tip up. if a guy brings out his 2 young kids and he knows that they will only be able to fish one line but he has out six lines realisticly he is responsible for 4 of those 6, thats two extra for him. is that wrong? i never cheat lie steal, i was raised with good morals and values, i go to church every sunday and to be quite honest 2 pounder i have never caught a limit of crappies or bluegills in my life!! or took home a limit anyways. i just take home enough for a meal. i don't see anything wrong with 2 lines in the house and one outside thats why i do it, heck i'd love to put 5 tip ups outside but that would cross the line for being moraly acceptable. think what you want but don't say i lie or cheat and you wouldn't want me to work for you.

please don't post any more nasty comments cause frankly i have said nothing rude or offensive to you don't be rude or offensive to me, thank you.