Quick DNR Rant.... no bashing, just venting

[slick814]

Is it me, or does the DNR do some things that make very little sense?

I know there's a lot of directions that this could go, but I'm trying to figure out the logic in one particular thing that affects me personally, and doesn't make sense to me. I'm hoping maybe someone out there will have a response/reason for this...

Why is it that you need to buy an ALL SEASON license in order to muzzleloader hunt??? There's a seperate Archery license for those who wish to buy an Archery tag only... there's the regular firearms license... but there's no muzzleloader license??? If I was hunting all 3 seasons, I could completely understand the reasoning behind buying an All-Season tag... but what logic is there in forcing those of us who wish to shoot black powder to spend an extra $52 in order to hunt the muzzleloader season???

Like I said, if I was doing Archery, Regular Firearms and then Muzzleloader, I'd be fine with paying the $79 for the All Season... at $27 each, it'd save me $2.

But it makes no sense to me whatsoever to force those of us who choose to hunt with Muzzleloaders to pay so much... this may end up forcing me to skip the black powder season this year, which sucks, as I was looking forward to it more than regular gun season.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a purely personal standpoint, in that I don't see it being worth paying so much more for the extra 2 weeks...

Sorry if I rambled, just trying to vent a bit

[fisherking01]

Wow, I wasn't aware of the no muzzleloader license. I hunted archery and muzzleloader for 5 years before the all season license was out. It was available then. Not just a printing error in the book??

[JDM]

Check again. I am pretty sure there is a muzzleloader only license.

[slick814]

I had hoped that it was just an error in the handbook, so I emailed the DNR to check. Here's the response I got:

The muzzleloader season is an option of the regular firearms deer

license. Instead of picking a zone, you pick ML for muzzleloader season.

If you wish to hunt both regular firearms and muzzleloader you must be a

resident of MN and purchase the All Season License. It's the only way to

do both types of firearms hunting.

Suellen Rau, Supervisor

Information Center

MN Department of Natural Resources

Bureau of Information & Education

500 Lafayette Rd

St. Paul, MN 55155-4040

651/296-6157

[email protected]

So buying the all-season is the only way to do both... which is why I needed to vent. It makes no sense to me to have to buy the all season in order to hunt both regular firearms and muzzleloader.

[JDM]

I misunderstood. You are correct and by the way, I completely agree with you. See my post under the deer hunting section.

[lawdog]

The muzzleloader season has always been that way, you've never been able to buy both a muzzleloader and another firearm season. The new All-Season license gives you another option and you are complaining about that. Before the all season you had no way to do it.

[Jameson]

This is also not meant to be a DNR bash, just a vent.

I think part of the reason the DNR does not allow hunters to buy both a regular firearms, and then a ML license is to keep some of the hunters out of the woods during ML season. Sure, hunters can still buy an All-S to do both, but it is more expensive then if we could buy them separately. Why would the DNR want less hunters in the woods for ML? Because most CO's cannot hunt during the rifle season, the have to work, so they archery and ML hunt. Archery and ML licenses are the only licenses that we do not have to apply for a doe tag, also. These are the license types that CO's will be purchasing. I hope that the CO's available hunting days do not regulate other hunters from enjoying the woods at a fair rate, but it is hard not to think this for me.

Again this is not meant to be a DNR bash.

[Dave S]

maybe I read this thread wrong, but wasn't the origianl question about buying "just a ML license" to only hunt in the ML season? I didn't catch where he stated in his e-mail to the DNR where he intended to hunt more than just the ML season. I will have to look into the reg's a little closer to verify there is no "ML only" license.

But either way, it doesn't appear the DNR answered his question.

[harvey lee]

I guess the way I look at it this, you use to be able to shot 1 deer. Now, one has tons of options and we should be thankful for that. The DNR could go back to they way it use to be and then next to all would be upset. Over the last years we have all gotten a little spoiled with all the different options to extend our hunting in the fall.

North Dakota has always been a couple of tags and for the last 5-6 years I could get 6 a year. I know that will never last but I'm happy I had the tags I recieved for the years I did. I know that in a few more years or after a severe winter the tags will be reduced and then I'll be down to one arcghery and maybe a rifle tag.

I personally would not want to be the one in charge at the MN DNR that has to decide who gets what as every deer hunter in the state wants something different.

Tough job for the DNR to keep every hunter getting what they want. In fact probably impossible for them to do it.

[UMDSportsman]

Not to bash you guys, but in defense of the people at the DNR that answer the questions, they have tons of calls and emails to go thru and answer, and they get a lot of off the wall questions too. I am not saying that you are bashing them either, but when you copied the email into the post, and included who sent it to you, i thought about them. I am a close relative to the person that responded to your email. she has told me some of the questions that they get, sometimes they can be kind of funny, but none the less reasonable questions to those who don't know any better. they are people too and missunderstand questions and comments just as you and i do.

[lawdog]

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So buying the all-season is the only way to do both... which is why I needed to vent. It makes no sense to me to have to buy the all season in order to hunt both regular firearms and muzzleloader.

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So do you think you should be able to buy a 3a license and then a 3b or 4b license too? If you understand the difference there, why can't you grasp that the Muzzleloader is just another firearm option??

[Jameson]

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...So do you think you should be able to buy a 3a license and then a 3b or 4b license too?...

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I do think someone should be able to buy a 4A license, then if they were not successful during their 4A hunt, buy a 4B license. They still would only be able to tag the same amount of deer. I do not see it being a problem if this puts to many hunters afield. I see it as being a restriction on hunters. That yes, is overcome buy spending the cash for an all-season license. I am glad the DNR gives us the option to buy an all season license, but we should be able to buy the 4A, then if unsuccessful buy a 4B license.

I don't see the ML license being the same as a firearms license, I do realize the MN DNR does. The ML season is more restrictive of weapon type. I can use a ML during shotgun season, but can't use a shotgun during ML season. The ML season is later than all the other firearms seasons. No overlaps. Also a ML license is good statewide, not area specific.

[blue_healer_guy]

Just like anything now a days, you want more options, you are gonna have to pay for it.

[BLACKJACK]

I think that it is a good thing that you can hunt 4A OR 4B, it spreads the hunters out. The worst thing about slug hunting is too many redcoats out in the field, it gets to be a zoo, especially if you do any public land hunting.

[Scott K]

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I think that it is a good thing that you can hunt 4A OR 4B, it spreads the hunters out. The worst thing about slug hunting is too many redcoats out in the field, it gets to be a zoo, especially if you do any public land hunting.

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It doesnt need to even be public land. I have kicked many people out of my very well posted no tresspassing/no hunting land. I have even told one guy that I kicked out that he can go hunt some of my posted land, just stay away from me, to see him sitting in my stand on Tuesday morning on a 4b hunt. That was not a very pleasant conversation. I contacted dnr, told them about it they said they would contact this guy. Then in mid december I see a fresh walking trail up the woods to my stand, I walk up there and hes sitting in my stand bow hunting. Some people are just (Contact Us Please)!

[BRULEDRIFTER]

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This is also not meant to be a DNR bash, just a vent.

I think part of the reason the DNR does not allow hunters to buy both a regular firearms, and then a ML license is to keep some of the hunters out of the woods during ML season. Sure, hunters can still buy an All-S to do both, but it is more expensive then if we could buy them separately. Why would the DNR want less hunters in the woods for ML? Because most CO's cannot hunt during the rifle season, the have to work, so they archery and ML hunt. Archery and ML licenses are the only licenses that we do not have to apply for a doe tag, also. These are the license types that CO's will be purchasing. I hope that the CO's available hunting days do not regulate other hunters from enjoying the woods at a fair rate, but it is hard not to think this for me.

Again this is not meant to be a DNR bash.

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I would say this is a bit of a strech. CO's have vacation time and seniority like every other job. If a guy wants to hunt, i'm sure he can hunt. Probably not a weekend, but weekdays im sure.

[BobT]

I agree this was a bit of a stretch. If the post was not meant to bash DNR then why make statements that are unfounded and quite likely false accusation unless the writer has some evidence to be presented?

Bob

[Down2Earth]

Wouldn't a CO taking off slug season be like a football player taking off the Superbowl?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

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This is also not meant to be a DNR bash, just a vent.

I think part of the reason the DNR does not allow hunters to buy both a regular firearms, and then a ML license is to keep some of the hunters out of the woods during ML season. Sure, hunters can still buy an All-S to do both, but it is more expensive then if we could buy them separately. Why would the DNR want less hunters in the woods for ML? Because most CO's cannot hunt during the rifle season, the have to work, so they archery and ML hunt. Archery and ML licenses are the only licenses that we do not have to apply for a doe tag, also. These are the license types that CO's will be purchasing. I hope that the CO's available hunting days do not regulate other hunters from enjoying the woods at a fair rate, but it is hard not to think this for me.

Again this is not meant to be a DNR bash.

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I would say this is a bit of a strech. CO's have vacation time and seniority like every other job. If a guy wants to hunt, i'm sure he can hunt. Probably not a weekend, but weekdays im sure.

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Also, the CO's have absolutly no control over HOW regulations are set, they just inforce them. I don't think a CO can tell our legislators and other elected officials that create the legislation on seasons, Hey I need to be able to hunt too, so lets keep people out of certain seasons and manipulate the # of hunters so I can get out there too.

After re-reading your post again, your comments and train of thinking on this issue are seriously dillusional. Sorry not meaning to bash you, just venting

[Jameson]

I was told that by a CO's brother. I'm not trying to make it sound like they are trying to get the woods to themselves. I would be fine if we had a separate season just for DNR employees, anything to help or reward them. With less hunters in the woods during ML season they have less calls to respond to, and can hunt more, in theory.

[BobT]

A couple years ago when a CO visited us in the field on opening day of the early goose season, we got into a discussion about how their job kind of sucks because they have to work the very days they probably prefer to be off enjoying the activities they enjoy as well. Her reply was that they try to work out arrangements with each other to take some time for themselves just like you and I do with our jobs.

Bob

[xedge2002]

When I was in Law Enforcement Skills training this summer at Alex we had a CO come in and teach a class on atv/snowmobile/dirt bike's. After he was done we were asking him question's and he said how their schedule works is that they have to sign in 10 times in 14 days. They have to work 80 hours in that time period. He said he has had weeks where he would end up working 20 hours in one day so later in the week he would sign in for 30 minutes, do some paperwork then take the rest of the day off.

I agree they kind of get the shaft having to work most of the hunting season but they can work their schedule to their benefit too.

[slick814]

Ok.. First off...UMDSportsman, I in no way intended for it to look like I was bashing the person who responded to my email in any way. I just copied & pasted the response that I got. My apologies if it looked like anything other than that. She responded to my question quickly, politely, and professionally. I hold nothing against her, nor do I wish to have her job. Answering some of the questions that I'm sure she gets would not be my idea of fun.

My rant was for one reason and one reason alone. I merely found it strange/odd that a person could purchase an Archery Tag, or a Firearms Tag (regular firearms), but could not buy a separate Muzzleloader tag. It makes no sense to me why that is.

I completely understand why someone who wanted to hunt all three would liketo save a few dollars by purchasing the All-Season, but for me, I don't bow hunt, nor do I have plans to take it up. In order for me to do so, I would need to get special persmission to use a crossbow, as a shoulder injury prevents me from being able to draw back a bow properly. I don't want to use a crossbow for archery hunting.

I merely was trying to say that in my opinion, it makes no sense as to why a person who wishes to hunt both regular firearms and muzzleloader can't buy tags for each.

If it's truly to limit the number of people doing the muzzleloader season because of the either sex thing, then make it a doe lottery throughout the state, whatever they need to do. Or limit the number of licenses available. It just seems to me that there would be better options, and I'm frustrated at having purchased a muzzleloader last spring with the intent of being able to extend my hunting season by a few days. It just isn't cost effective for me to spend the extra $52, so I most likely will not be doing both this year.

Like I said... it was meant to be a vent, not a bash or rip on the DNR....

[96trigger]

The DNR considers the muzzle loader a firearm. One firearms season per year unless the all season license is bought. That said, I wouldn't have a problem with a person who did not fill their regular season firearm tag or register with a management tag, to buy a muzzleloader license, and have to show the unused firearm tag upon purchase of a ML tag. I believe that the ELS system can tell the agent if you have purchased a regular season firearms license. If not, I'm sure it could. Just a thought. Some people might try and risk this by not tagging or registering their deer, but they would be few and far between. They are going to do what they want anyway. There is also the party hunting factor but if thats the case, someone is still using a purchased tag.

One note, if people felt that they had more time to hunt, they may pass on some of the smaller bucks, increasing the quality of deer we see.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Slick, you should write this to the top dogs in St. Paul. It sounds like you have a very legitamate arguement. Rules like the one you mention make NO sense and w/ enough bickering, you may be aable to change something.

Just a suggestion.