Snell lengths

[Random guy]

I was involved in a discussion about snells last night that got into snell length. I was wondering just how long some of you guys will run a snell and what the reason is for certain lengths, it seemed like many different ideas on just how long a snell should be due to the many different factors so I thought I would get some opinions on this to help solve the latest problem in Waskish .

[markkstanley]

Water clarity determines it for me. If I can see 6ft down I use about a 6ft snell. On the rivers I will go as short as two feet. I seldom go past 8ft. Too hard to land fish and really doesn't make that much a difference IMO. Presentation and color are more important.

[BigWadeS]

John, I'm no expert by any means. I have always used 2-6ft snells based on clarity and also a lot of trial and error. This year I made my first trek to Mille Lacs (home of the "8-10' snells." I used 6 and caught as many as everyone else we were with and around. happy fishing

[Jim Hudson]

Jon

For me, snell length revolves around water clarity as mentioned and bottom content...

Clear water usually means a longer snell, up to 6 feet for me, anything longer is hard to manage for myself. Darker water, sometimes I am at a foot and a half.

But in either sense, if I am fishing snaggy bottom, such as rocks or the a like. I like a shorter snell, be it clear or stained. Longer snells equal more snags for me in that type of environment.

[PerchJerker]

At times I'll run long snells when I want the bait to be up off the bottom. A crawler filled with air on a long snell will float high if you move slow. Or I may peg a float a few feet in front of the hooks and move slow. These are good tactics in clear water with finnicky fish.

At times I've gone with snells as long as 12 feet, but usually it's 8 feet or shorter.

[Team Otter]

Jon,

In my boat, water clarity plays a role in snell length but I also consider the depth I'm fishing and resistance to the feel of a bite. For instance, if I'm riggin' on Mille Lacs, Gull, Pokegama or any other clear water lake, you can bet the snell lengths in my boat will be between 8 - 12'. As the water clarity decreases, a typical snell length for me is 3 - 6'. When riggin' in deep water, often times the bite is soft and subtle, so the longer snell gives you time to feel the fish and not let out as much line before setting on it. When fishing in lakes with a lesser water clarity, typically these lakes are shallower and the fish are more prone to a reaction strike. Hence, I fish with my bail closed and just "give the rod tip" to the fish before setting. When using the 8 - 12' snells, I also like the movement of the bait when raising and lowering your weight to stay in contact with the bottom. A leech or night crawler almost acts like a slow-moving roller coaster which, often times, is just too much for ol' marble eye to resist.

Have any of us solved your problem yet?

[Random guy]

Thanks guys. We had a good old dabate on snell length the other night. I believe on stained Upper Red lake a short snell is all you need, more sensitive and easier to use. Of course this went back and forth so I thought I would ask the question and see what the genral census was.

[Northlander]

All good info but Im curious as to peoples feelings on leader length and hooking mortality. Looks to me like lakes that are known for huge leaders (Mil Lacs) are also known for big hooking mortality rates.

[andrew chadwick]

there is an explanation for this- these fish you see floating on top are more often than not slot fish- a fish that even if caught and obviously wont make it is to be released anyways. If there was no slot limit there would a much less hooking mortality for one reason- people would be keeping their catch.

[Team Otter]

I don't think there is a relationship between leader length and hook mortality.

[deja vu]

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I don't think there is a relationship between leader length and hook mortality.

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Of course there's a relationship between leader length and hooking mortality... but it's probably subordinate to the hook design and the actual size of hook being used. There's quite a bit of data out there to support an opinion that released fish have a better chance of living if they're caught on long-shanked oversize hooks, i.e, Aberdeen, Sneck, Kirby, Carlisle, et al. (Not certain how Circle hooks would fit in this opinion, but then I don't know anyone who trolls or drifts for walleyes using Circle pattern hooks.)

On the other hand, growing up on Rainy Lake and LOTW during the development and introduction of mono leader material, I can recall numerous trials of experimental trolling rigs developed to replace the ubiquitous Prescott Spinner rig. The results included many successful walleye trolling rigs in the 9" to 12" range (with nothing longer than 18"), and that was back when most fisherman used braided dacron, nylon, or linen baitcasting lines on their reels. The shorter the distance between the sinker and the snelled hook, the better the chances of hooking the fish, when the fisherman set the hook.

Then the Lindy rig was 'discovered', and all that data was overturned... or was it?

____________________________

A few items in the bait shop display are actually made to catch fish; but most of the items are made to catch fishermen.

Once upon a time, an expert fisherman was someone who could tell the difference; today, an expert fisherman is someone who expects a percentage of the gross...

[Team Otter]

I think we're reaching if we're putting mortality rate and leader length in the same category.

[Ranckenstuff]

Deja Vu great post with info to back it!

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I don't think there is a relationship between leader length and hook mortality.

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Of course there's a relationship between leader length and hooking mortality... but it's probably subordinate to the hook design and the actual size of hook being used. There's quite a bit of data out there to support an opinion that released fish have a better chance of living if they're caught on long-shanked oversize hooks, i.e, Aberdeen, Sneck, Kirby, Carlisle, et al. (Not certain how Circle hooks would fit in this opinion, but then I don't know anyone who trolls or drifts for walleyes using Circle pattern hooks.)

On the other hand, growing up on Rainy Lake and LOTW during the development and introduction of mono leader material, I can recall numerous trials of experimental trolling rigs developed to replace the ubiquitous Prescott Spinner rig. The results included many successful walleye trolling rigs in the 9" to 12" range (with nothing longer than 18"), and that was back when most fisherman used braided dacron, nylon, or linen baitcasting lines on their reels. The shorter the distance between the sinker and the snelled hook, the better the chances of hooking the fish, when the fisherman set the hook.

Then the Lindy rig was 'discovered', and all that data was overturned... or was it?

____________________________

A few items in the bait shop display are actually made to catch fish; but most of the items are made to catch fishermen.

Once upon a time, an expert fisherman was someone who could tell the difference; today, an expert fisherman is someone who expects a percentage of the gross...

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[Team Otter]

I see it from a different angle. When I use a longer snell, that means less line to the fish prior to setting. When using a shorter snell, in most cases, this almost always means giving the fish no line and typically a much more aggressive hook set. As it relates to mortality rate, I think properly handling of the fish after the catch and/or before the release is substantially more critical than a 2' or 12' snell.

[Northlander]

Otter what do ya think about the longer the leader = less feel at the hook and fish swallows hook deeper before the fisherman feels the bite and gets a hookset?

[deja vu]

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When using a shorter snell, in most cases, this almost always means giving the fish no line and typically a much more aggressive hook set.

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I certainly agree with the first part of your theory. But the "aggressiveness" of the hook set is entirely within the control of the fisherman, isn't it? So, if you drop the tip of your rod when you feel the 'tic', then set the hook... Using my theory, the live bait is going to slow down and drop slightly, and the attacking walleye (theoretically, of course) is going to move from a position level with the bait to a position slightly above the dropping bait, in a much better position to be hooked when I immediately set the hook.

From my point of view, fishermen using your rig wouldn't even know the walleye was there until it swallowed the hook... The truly "aggressive" hook set would be necessary when you have six feet or more of leader between your line weight and the hook.

Also, fishermen using your rig would probably be using an Octopus pattern hook (excuse me... a 'walleye' pattern, exclusively designed by Lindy, or Cabelas, et al.), and if the fish has time to swallow that little short-shanked hook so deep that it nicks its gills, the fish will die. On the positive side, if you use genuine 'walleye' pattern hooks, you should also carry a special SST long-nosed pliers to recover your hook (a pliers recommended by Rufus Catchalot, only $25 at the appropriate gear display in the bait shop).

So, in a roundabout way, I attempt to defend my initial thesis...

(Pardon me, Northlander... I didn't see your post until I posted this one.)

[Team Otter]

I'm always 6" - 1' off the bottom with my weight when using a long snell (i.e. >8') on a Lindy Rig. That being said, you still have the feel almost immediately after the fish commits to the presentation with a good to excellent rod. In most cases, of all the fish I've seen come to my boat, a very small percentage of them have the hook "buried". When and if that happens, the line gets cut and the fish is on its way.

[Northlander]

I hear ya Otter. Thats the way to do it. Too many people try to dig out a hook rather than cut the line. Im not that cheap.

If more people just cut the line we wouldnt lose a lot of the fish that die.

[Kyle Sandberg]

I was reading my walleye book and it said when pulling snells or spinners, if the fish are close to the bottom, use a shorter snell and it the fish are two or three feet off the bottom use the longer snell.

I always settle for about a 6 or 7 footer becuase, to me, it seems like the middle length.

[Dave S]

I also agree with Otter. If a fish comes back in with the hook in it's throat, the line is cut so it doesn't hang out of the mouth, and the fish is immediately released.

[Team Otter]

I start longer and go shorter, if necessary. The most aggressive fish will chase up from the bottom and you will also get the fish hanging off the bottom.

[papabear]

Doesnt depth play a role in this? I will use a 3-6' snell in deepwater. it is darker and with that much water to set the hook through the shorter snell offers quick hook sets. But i use 6-8' or more in shalow water to get the bait behind the boat more and still maintain a good angle to the sinker for feel.

[Team Otter]

Water clarity and fish position are probably the two biggest factors when deciding what length snell to use.

[deja vu]

These comments may be off topic, but maybe not, since the posters are pro-staffers.

Otter said:

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In most cases, of all the fish I've seen come to my boat, a very small percentage of them have the hook "buried". When and if that happens, the line gets cut and the fish is on its way.

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Northlander said:

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Too many people try to dig out a hook rather than cut the line. Im not that cheap. If more people just cut the line we wouldnt lose a lot of the fish that die.

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These gentlemen apparently believe that all you have to do is “cut the line”, and “the fish is on its way”. Please, tell me how this obvious miracle comes to pass?

My common sense tells me that a walleye with a hook “buried” in its gullet is a soon-to-be-dead walleye, even if its gills are not torn. This fish is going to starve to death. My experience confirms this… I’ve never caught a walleye with a hook in his gullet; I’ve never heard of anyone else catching a walleye with a hook in its gullet. How about you?

How is this fish going to get food from its mouth to its stomach, if the pathway is obstructed by a hook with a short snarl of mono leader attached to it? Does anyone really believe the fish’s stomach acid is going to eventually ‘dissolve’ a steel hook and plastic leader? Or that the fish is going to somehow slough off the hook and leader, and spit it out or discharge it naturally? Take a look at the size of a fish’s anal hole the next time you catch a nice one… Tell me, please, how a corroded hook and a snarl of mono leader are going to be passed through that opening…

Otter estimates that only “a very small percentage” of the fish he catches swallow the hook. My percentage is probably a lot smaller than Otters, because I use shorter leaders and larger long-shanked hooks. But it still happens…

When a nice walleye swallows the hook, and I can’t legally keep it, I look in the fish’s mouth to see if the point and the barb of my 1 or 1/0 Aberdeen or Sneck pattern hook is exposed. If it is NOT exposed, and I can’t expose it with a minimal amount of tweaking, then I carefully nip the leader from the eye of my long-shanked hook and return the fish to the water to die… just like Otter and Northlander.

If I can see the exposed point and barb of the hook, I use a special magnetized nipper to clip off the point and barb of the hook, so I can pull the hook out from the eye end… OR, I might use the nipper to clip off the shank of the hook as close to the bend as possible, then use a long-nosed pliers to clamp on the point and barb end of the hook and remove the embedded portion.

Now, that fish may still die of infection or numerous other causes, but I believe it’s got a much better chance of living with the obstructing hook removed.

Lots of confidential information revealed in this thread, about leader lengths and what to do with fish that swallow the hook… I have one final question for you… After you put your bait on the hook, do you have a special way of spitting on it before you drop it in the water?

[Northlander]

Deja Im not trying to argue with you 1st off.

As far as cutting a line on a deeply hooked fish I think in most situations you are better off doing that than digging at a hook and trying to vut it or pull it out.

There have been many studies on this and some are still going on. I havent really seen enough data that has made me decide one way or the other what to do in these cases. Some say cut the line long enough so it lays outside the mouth. Some say cut the line at the hook. Wich is best? Well Im not 100% sure.

Cutting as much of the hook as you can may work, using longer snelled hooks may work, cutting and leaving some line exposed may work. Who really knows for sure?

All I know is I take it on a case to case basis and a lot of the time I wind up having to cut the line off at the hook. Or as close to it as I can.

Fortanately I jig and pull spinners a lot so I dont get many gut hooked fish. I do however get foul hooked fish that may get a hook in the gills. Then I just go by what I think will work best for that particular fish.

No matter what we do with these fish I think pulling out hooks from gutt hooked fish is the last thing I would do.

Good fishin.

Oh and I dont spit onmy bait. I dont know how walleye like Cope.