sunflower heater headaches

[island guy]

I've read several threads about sunflower heaters and getting headaches. What's the thought behind that? I'm not doubting it and I've not used one much but don't remember getting a headache. My neighbor heats his house with one and spends extended times in it and says he has never really noticed anything. Maybe the trick is to have a leaky house! I can maybe see it in a house that is sealed up good.

[Carp-fisher]

I think its the onset of CO2 poisoning. They say thats a bad thing...

[SETDAHOOK]

I think they affect different people in different says. I can not fish with a sunflower. I get headaches every time and have even tossed my cookies because of them (no, it was not related to alcohol). It is of course after sitting in a house for quite a while. If I have no other choice but to fish with a sunflower, I always make sure a door is left open or a go outside to get fresh air often.

[toughguy]

I fish with a sunflower all the time with the doores adn vents clozed andd i donnt theenk itz hert me 1 bitt?! Some guy tolled me it kils brane sells ubt I dout itt/

Seriously I know a few guys that get have problems with the mr heaters and won;t fish with them. I my self don't so I continue to use one. I make sure to keep my vents open, turn it off from time to time and get out side a few times an hour (hopefully to check my tipups)

[shorefisher]

Making sure it is burning clean and letting in a little fresh air in the house and you should not get sick. But if you seal your self in and run it on high you get more then a headach. Dress a little warmer and let in the fresh air a little

[stmichael]

Quote:

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I fish with a sunflower all the time with the doores adn vents clozed andd i donnt theenk itz hert me 1 bitt?! Some guy tolled me it kils brane sells ubt I dout itt/

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I almost fell off my chair!!

I do not have these issues. Vents always open and it helps to have a boy that cannot sit still.

[Grant]

with the holes in my Otter, I bet I won't have any issues~

[GatorBait]

Yeah, I've been fishing with a sunflower since I could remember and only remember getting the headache type syptoms a couple times. It may affect people differently too. I would just suggest opening the shack up to some fresh air once or twice an hour and getting yourself some fresh air too. Good ventilation (Vents,Mini Fans)in your shack as said before also helps alot.

Tight Lines,

GatorBait

[Zzapp]

I may be wrong, but I think you mean CO - carbon MONoxide, not DIoxide poisoning.

I've had the headache problem in the past, even in a leaky old suitcase style house the barn-mice lived during the off-season - just refresh the air once an hour (open and flap it)

TJ

[Ralph Wiggum]

Quote:

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I may be wrong, but I think you mean CO - carbon MONoxide, not DIoxide poisoning.

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Yes. CO. Although, CO2 poisoning is also possible, I don't think you could get it from a heater.

[fishinmedic]

I won't go into venting, looks like everyone covered it. But if you read the StarTrib article today. It's basically want happened to that 17 kid, along with his entire family showing early signs and symptoms of acute CO poisoning (Inhalation)

fishinmedic

[federline]

I don't think I can hold back from venting, no pun intended whatsoever...

This thread is missing some facts, so I'm just putting them all here. Call it what you want, call me a knowitall, I don't care really, but its important for anyone reading this to know how dangerous unvented heaters in enclosed spaces can be.

I know, I know, we all do it. There are so many people who luck out every year.

I use a sunflower in a portable when it is under 15 degrees out - I will open a foot of zipper on the top and bottom of the door, and open my vents halfway. The idea is to get cold air with lots of oxygen to hit the flame, and let the rising heat take the CO2 (or, yikes!, CO!) out the top vents.

CO is made when there is not enough Oxygen to match up with the Carbon in the Propane so it makes CO2, carbon dioxide. C3H8 (propane) + O2 (oxygen) + flame = CO2 (carbon dioxide) & H2O (water), but when oxygen is gone around the flame, C3H8+O2+heat=CO2+CO+H2O.

Headaches are only the first symptom, CO poisoning of your blood is the cause, the effect is that poisoned hemoglobin in your blood cannot transport oxygen to your body tissue.

CO binds IRREVERSIBLY to the substance in your blood that carries oxygen to your brain, heart, limbs, everything. The only true way to reverse CO poisoning is to wait until your body produces more hemoglobin to replace the poisoned hemoglobin that will now rot in your bloodstream. This is a very slow process. The CO will never unbind from the hemoglobin, it sticks to it hundreds of times stronger than Oxygen.

A guy can suck in a lot of CO in a matter of minutes, fall asleep, and then if the CO keeps being produced and inhaled, the guy is dead for sure. this is why the rare person who are found unconscious and still alive, but CO poisoned, can then go on to die at the hospital. There is a point of no return.

If you are getting a headache - you are being mildy poisoned! You will recover if you breathe lots of Oxygen for a long time. Change something about your situation to prevent being poisoned worse!

If your headache is a pounding frontal headache, you've been CO poisoned worse than if it is not. This is the last stopping point before lasting internal tissue damage starts.

If you are getting dizzy, you will pass out if you keep breathing the CO level that made you dizzy. If you pass out and the CO source persists, you are as good as dead.

If you are puking, you will die within hours or even minutes (NOT DAYS) if you keep brething that level of CO.

If you have ever been CO poisoned, your life will be cut shorter than it would have been due to heart damage caused by hypoxia. Period.

If you have anyone in this world that cares about you, whether you know it or not, or acknowledge it or not, you owe it to them to be safe with heaters. I don't know how else to put it.

[wasssit]

I use a sunflower heater and it gets so hot in the house that i have to unzip the door about halfways. I do notice headaches when it gets very cold outside and i don't have enough vents open.

[Guest]

I cant use sunflower heaters anymore.. I have been nausiated by them so many times that I get sick when I see the things let alone light them anymore.

I keep the house well vented with my buddy heater. It may not get as warm as I prefer, but I see no point in unneccessary risk. I fish outside as much as I do in a house(or more)... if I am wearing all those clothes, I dont need it to be 80 degrees.

The buddy heaters, and the paulin pup heaters both have low oxygen shut offs... but I still dont trust them with my life.

[Shawnny B]

Sumthin for you Sunflower users and "knowitalls" Does CO rise or sink, and it would be interesting to see if a CO tester goes off in your shacks, if so then I would definatly not use it!

ShawnnyB

[GudeMN]

I use a sunflower in my Fish Trap guide on really cold days. In that small of a space I don't bother banking the skirt and plenty of fresh air gets in. If I do seal the edge with snow it gets way too hot in there. The rest of the time I use a Mr.Heater Buddy...burns cleaner and doesn't kick out so much heat you have to strip down.

[federline]

Shawnny, excellent question and idea! CO is heavier than air in most situations. It's when you get a convection current going in the house, then all bets are off, 'cause it is mixing, CO isn't so heavy it won't mix in convection.

That Guy brings up low-O2 detectors. They aren't really low O2 detectors, it is actually the thermocouple in front of the flame, essentially, the air around the thermocouple metal gets too cold. It is tuned to cut the gas if the hot part of the flame leaves the thermocouple - the flame gets cooler and smaller when there is less O2 to combust the propane. That is why heaters that have "low O2 sensors" tend to blow out easier, they are much more sensitive to flame variations, such as when running out of propane, and cold drafts hitting the thermocouple - those with Buddy heaters know what I am talking about, they are really sensitive. My construction heater is the same way. I'd call it "low-O2 sensitivity feature".

[federline]

GudeMN, that is exactly my portable setup - sunflower on cold days w/ lots of vent, and Buddy the rest of the time. We have an external intake & exhaust heater on the permanent.

The Buddy heater ceramic heater design, because of the huge surface area of all the holes and catalytic effect of glowing red ceramic, leads to very complete and clean combustion of propane to Carbon dioxide and water provided enough O2 is present.

When the residential and commercial natural gas went out in Buffalo here a couple months ago, we used the Buddy heater inside. They are rated for indoor use because of their design points of (1) very clean combustion, and (2) high sensitivity to low O2 conditions.

[Dano2]

the only time I use a sunflower heater now is when I'm outside hole hoppen, I may crank it up to warm the fingers up everyonce in awhile as I dont have the ole gloves on too often when I'm catching.Other than that, I use the big buddy, but I still keep the vents open with that, even know they say its a safer heater, hell, its still propane. I leave everything wide open when I first crank it up. To be honest, I even get small headaches from the bigbuddy heater, so not sure how much safer they actually are. I cant even use propane lanterns anymore, its an instant headache for me, so I have LEDs instead

[Fisherman For a Lifetime]

Good posts, federline !!!

Dano2, good point for using the sunflower outside for quick warm-ups. I was "just" going to throw it in the trash since I bought the big buddy. You saved it from trash can death!