WOLVES

[tealitup]

We have had an explosion of wolves the past five years. You can see the difference in the moose, grouse and deer populations. I see wolves every year - even placed a stand next to a den used every year. A camera is better then a gun sometimes. It should be noted that 80% of a wolves diet is white tail deer.

The DNR does a very nice job at bringing animals back to Minnesota. Just look at the turkey population and its expansive range.

[love to hunt]

Oopps, this was apparently a can of worms.

I just want to clarify that I don't hate wolves and certainly wouldn't condone random killing of the population. There is nothing more beautiful sounding then a wolf howeling in the big north woods. I was mearly stating that it is noticable that the wolf population has greatly increased in the past years and some hunting should be started to keep things in check. Controlled hunting is really the only way to keep things in balance. Humans keep building and axpanding taking away habitat and thus the animal population must follow suite. I know I would thoughly enjoy a wolf hunt and would jump at the opprutunity to get a wolf rug, I have the perfect spot.

Yes, I was a little disgruntled at the lack of animals in the area but don't contribute that to wolf kills. But when the wolves move in the deer will leave or relocate. They were starting back into the area at the end of the season as the pack moved on. Of the seven wolves I saw five of them were chasing a deer past my stand which they caught. That was possibly the most wild and naturally brutal thing I have ever witnessed but educational as well.

All in all I still had a great hunt, simply because I was with family and my brother came home from deployment to spend the deer season with us. We hunted, laughed, got some deer, baged some grouse, drank some beer (ok, a lot of beer) and sent him off to finish his job.

Some little know facts I got from a friend of mine that is in the know on these types of things (he is a wildlife biologist);

Wolf breeding used to only occured between the alpha male and female. That equates to one litter per pack and that is why hunting nearly wiped them out in the first place. Since wloves were reintroduced in Minnesota the breeding has expanded to more then just the alpha class adults resulting in more then 1 litter in a pack and that has contributed to the population rebound. This is just natures way of correcting it self.

Wolves have no natural predators except man.

Wolves diet is comprised of 55% white-tailed deer, 16% beavers, 10% snowshoe hares and 19% mice, squirrels, muskrats and other small mammals. Deer comprise over 80% of the diet much of the year, but beaver become important in spring and fall. Beavers spend a lot of time on shore in the fall and spring, cutting trees for their food supply. Since beavers are easy to catch on land, wolves eat more of them in the fall and spring than during the rest of the year. In the winter, when beavers are in their lodges or moving safely beneath the ice, wolves rely on deer and hares. Wolves' summer diet is more diverse, including a greater variety of small mammals. In other parts of the country they will also eat elk, moose and other large game animals. In ares with domestic livestock they will readily take sheep, and cattle and ocasionally pets.

They would rather leave humans alone then attack, unless cornered, trapped, protecting there young, starving, or protecting a kill.

Wolves prefer to chase and kill there pray, so if you see one don't run away.

Wolves are very shy and not see in the open very often. They try to stay in thick cover and will redily vacate upon smelling, hearing or seeing a human.

[Johnny_Namakan]

First off, I agree that the wolves aren't solely to blame for lack of deer activity. And I don't think anyone is trying to put all the blame on that. All we are saying is there is definitely a trend taking place here and we are trying to be proactive. Wolves breed at a much higher rate than deer do, per animal. Look at the yellowstone Park example. They reintroduced a pack of 20 some odd wolves in 1996. The wolve numbers are up over 300 in just ten years. Do the math, that's a 15 fold increase. Also, the pop. of 3000 some odd wolves is primarily concentrated in a small portion of the state. So densities in the areas they inhabit are high, and the only thing controlling them is natural causes. Would you rather see them get to a level of unsustainability and then do something about it, or control it now. Someone also wrote that if there were only 2000 grouse or walleye would you kill them all too. Well we have a small Elk herd in MN now too and the DNR is already giving licenses to kill them when there numbers are under 100, but that's acceptable???? And to counter someones statement about why kill something if you aren't going to eat it.....well then explain coyote hunting, or prairie dog hunting, etc. It's called management!!!!!!! Plus I bet you'd get some very good dollars for their pelts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a wolf hater at all. I think they are a wonderful animal that needs to be controlled better. I don't hate deer, but I still hunt them. those that are against the control of these animals I believe don't have all the facts and don't live with them in your back yard every single day as I do. I was speaking with a vendor of mine from WI. and he said they are gettting bad there too. This year alone 2 dozen dogs were killed by wolves while bear hunting in northern WI, and there numbres are mucher much lower than ours. What's it going to take to get people to realize they need to be controlled better? Someones kid playing in the back yard getting mauled??? Just my 2 cents!

[monstermoose78]

Well I personally like to see wolves around because wolves come to where the deer are. I got my biggest buck this year 5-10 minutes after a 2 wolves came through on the same trail. My deer dressed out at 225 and was a 8 pointer and the wolves help move the deer around for us too.

[BobT]

Hey monster, I noticed your hunting area includes a recently harvested forest. Is there some coincidence here or is this intentional? My bet is intentional.

Bob

[luckey]

Nice photo monstermoose78. However, I cannot see a site tag on the deer. It could be hidden (maybe you are sitting on it lol). Anyway, remember the tag must be attached to the deer prior to transporting. Happy Hunting.

[charliepete2]

I've got land in St. Louis county and I hear wolves on stand all the time and see their tracks through my property. I'm still seeing plenty of deer. I do think one day we should be able to hunt them, but I doubt it will ever happen since wolves are such a lighting rod with folks who never hit the woods.

[jerkin'm]

BobT, I don't even think your comments are worth rebuttal since PerchJerker pretty much said it already...If you don't think hunting or trapping the ultimate predator would be worthy of doing...don't....A hunt is not just "MEAT" to me...I consider any animal harvested a great thrill and challenge..If you consider a game animal worthy only because of it's "MEAT" you should consider taking up a different sport...yes, it is a sport...

[BobT]

That's where I have to draw my line in the sand. Yours may be different but to me, killing purely for sport and no other reason is just not right and I try to teach my children better.

Bob

[jerkin'm]

Well at least we agree on something BobT...Killing for sport is not hunting....but to each his own..I stayed in a nice log cabin last summer while on vacation with my family and they had a wolf skin over one of the chairs in the living room. It was the most amazing hide I have ever seen. Kids loved it....I would be proud to have one I harvested myself...

[Ranger Rick]

Here in Wisconsin we don't have near the wolf population that you have in MN. WI DNR says @ 400? But people question the validity of that number and I suspect it may be double what they will admit to. Many believe it is much higher. An example of why they don't believe DNR, in the area where I do most of my hunting there is an active wolf pack. Between DNR asking us to kill more does [which we've unfortunately done] and the wolf population, there are very few deer left. A wolf pack will hunt and kill in an area until there is nothing left to sustain them, then they will move on. I'm looking forward to the day when this particular pack moves on so that our deer population can recover. Wolves today also have no fear of man and that will end up being a real tragedy when they finally do kill a person, instead of his bear hound or livestock. Near Clam Lake elk were reintroduced a few years ago. The population grew steadily until the last several years. DNR will admit to a few being killed by wolves, but again, it isn't PC to admit that the liberal bunny huggers favorite wilderness symbol is the culprit. A lot of people in WI northwoods are fed up with finding the remants of deer killed by wolves. Many are now employing the Three S's, shoot, shovel and shut up. Wouldn't it be better to have a managed program instead of the Three S's?

[Powerstroke]

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A wolf pack will hunt and kill in an area until there is nothing left to sustain them, then they will move on. I'm looking forward to the day when this particular pack moves on so that our deer population can recover.

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WOW, seriously? There are well established wolf packs in MN that haven't changed there boundaries more than 3 miles in the last 10 years. People who do the research on wolves at the wolf center in Ely can find and track the pack they released 10 years ago. Not to mention there are still deer, bear, grouse, moose, rabbits etc in the area.

SO many people are so quick to question the validity of the research done just because they saw fewer deer on their 80 acres than last year.

Less than 10 minutes on the DNR's HSOforum will show you that Deer, Grouse, and Moose populations are continuing to grow throughout the state. Grouse are on their cyclical rise, but they are still rising even though the predators are too. This research is the same stuff used by the DNR to decide how many permits are given out and how herds will be managed.

I agree that wolves have reached a point where they should be declassified and allowed to be hunted under a very strict control. I'm willing to have an intelligent conversation about it. Unfortunately over 50% of the material in this thread is over-the-fence chit chat that has no truth or basis. The blanket statements and poor (Contact Us Please)-u-mptions doesn't nothing for the discussion. Half of this post has become a witch hunt.

[Powerstroke]

To BLaze,

I wanted to reply to your seperately. Deer are native to Minnesota, but there are certain habitats that deer thrive in and certain ones that are less suitable. Even though we know deer love the crops people plant, there are fewer deer in the western part of the state than in the central because the deer love the woods and swamps. Also, there is less food available naturally in the Northern part of the state despite the great habitat. There are more deer in the far north and east than there is in the west and south. Its a matter of habitat.

Now my point about the historical populations of deer stay the same. Just grab a book on the history of MN and you'll see that the prairies of western MN (only 2% of native prairie remains) were pretty large and likely held very few deer. The Dakota indians and early settlers didn't write about herds of deer roaming the plains. THe woods did pretty well with the deer, but again the boreal forests of northern MN didn't have many deer cause it used to be vast expanses of pine forest over 100ft tall. Not much food or habitat there. Logging came thorugh and changed all that. A new habitat was created. Same with the plains, agriculture and crops drew deer out of the woods. Unfortunately they also got rid of any trees and brush in favor of tillable acres.

Take a look at Wisconsin. There is far less plowed land and they have mostly hardwood forest as compared to the evergreen forests we have in northern MN. This is way more habitat for deer and they ahve a deer population of 4-5 million which is WAY more than in MN.

I'm just saying that the habitat that deer thrive in is only about 25% of the land in our state. The rest of the state is seeing deer populations higher than they have ever been. The other 75% of the state has larger population swings because they are fighting to keep enough food and habitat for the growing deer herds. Weather effects things more than in other areas. A check of the deer density map and the deer harvest map on the DNR's HSOforum will illustrate my point. You can see where the most deer are seen and shot.

This same habitat in northern MN that deer area trying to survive in is more suited to the native wolf. I think people need to realize that the wolf does better in the area than deer do and they shouldn't be suprised. Wolves will always do better, but they will only do as well as the food source they trive on. A good deer herd will mean a good wolf pack. I know people don't want wolves, but they need to realize that long before people moved here, there were wolves, and now they are back, trying to restore the way things were, even at a detriment to the local deer hunting populations.

I'm not quite sure where this rabling is going, but I hope I answered your question.

[Craig_S]

Blaze,

If I remember right, around 100 wolves are trapped each year in Minnesota due to livestock depredation. The trapping is done by Federal trappers or trappers under contract to the Feds after a farmer produces a wolf killed cow or other livestock. The farmer is compensated in cash for the loss as well. Although I understand the compensation is usually not market value. Conservation Officers in the northern part of the state spend a significant amount of time investigating wolf depredation complaints. As far as pets go, I don't think anyone is keeping the numbers since there is no compensation for pets. But I hear of several each year in the area.

Again, I'm for a limited season on wolves. The pelts are valuable in prime. And, in my opinion, there is certainly a harvestable surplus.

Wolves eat deer. So do coyotes and cats. If your griping about the wolves eating all the deer, how come we're staring down one of the top 3 deer harvests ever in Minnesota? Maybe you should just hunt harder. Or try another spot. But people sure are getting 'em. And so are the wolves.

Powerstroke seems pretty savy here. At least what he reports is in line with my experience. All this hot gun talk about killing wolves doesn't help the cause much. You're just fueling the anti's arsenal.

Craig

[Cooter]

Powerstroke - better recheck your numbers on the deer pop in WI

I also wonder about the true pop of wolves here in WI vs whats reported. An awful lot of sightings for a shy, seclusive animal if there are only 300 some of them. Later.

[monstermoose78]

Well can i lie? I hunt where the deer are that means i see some wolves that are hunting too. We have all gotten along just fine. I get deer sometimes and the sometimes get a deer. The sight tag is on the deer just not visable from the angle of the photo next time i will make sure its in plain view ok.

[Ufatz]

Hey R.Rick! Can we clear up one thing please. Not all people who admire wolves are bunny hugging, seed eating,anti-hunting liberals. Maybe you and Ted Nugent think they are, but I have spent most of my life around them and know many people who live with them every day and none of them fall into your hated classification-they all hunt, fish, trap, eat meat-even trap a wolf now and then where its legal and appropriate.

So lets back off on the stereotyping and all calm down about wolves.

[onthefly]

RRick

"Liberal bunny huggers"?????? That's a regrettable remark.

You know what wolves do when they can't find deer? They adapt because it's a matter of survival. Don't blame on the wolves the fact that humans are so far removed from our predatory roots that we complain instead of adapting to find deer. Talk is cheap.

[Powerstroke]

Thanks for pointing that out Cooter. I totally blew it when talking about the WI dder population. They are more inline with 1.8- 2 million deer before fall harvest. Good call.

[caseymcq]

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Many are now employing the Three S's, shoot, shovel and shut up.

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That would be poaching.