WOLVES

[love to hunt]

This was the worst hunting season I have had in years. I hunted the full 16 days season and managed to down 1 deer. Why? WOLVES!!! I set out my ladder stand Friday before opener and the trails were loaded with wolf tracks, [PoorWordUsage] and I found 3 dead carcases. I saw 6 deer and 7 wolves this past firearms hunting season, and that ratio seems way out of proportion to me.

I have talked to others in our area who had the same problem. Our party harvested 5 deer for 7 hunters and we usually have 5 opening day.

Perhaps it is time to start pressuring the law makers to take these animals off the endangered list and open a season on them. I have never seen seven wolves in a season, usually I see 1 or 2 but never 7, and that dosen't seem endangered to me.

[Grizzly16]

Well said, we hunt in the Orr area and have been seeing more and more wolves every year. Now we had a good season but the wolves were not in our area, I am willing to bet that they will be all over this weekend for muzzleloader. Last year my uncle came to our shack on the third weekend and discovered 6 wolf beds all in front of our shack. The next weekend I had three wolves running around my deerstand on muzzleloader opener and had one even come up my run responding to a deer grunt call. I also believe that it is about time to open up at least a trapping season on the wolves, but that probably won't happen until the timbers start eating peoples dogs in the Cities. This will happen shortly if the population has to push further south for food.

[ddp]

I AGREE... 1 for 6 hunters

In our area 122, local relatives said the wolves were thick. Saturday late afternoon I heard a pair of wolves in the swamp. Everything in the woods seemed to stop. Even the 200lb squirrels

[BobT]

I might be in the minority here but I am not one to jump on the "irradicate the wolves" bandwagon because an area has a few carcasses. Yes, it's unfortunate as a hunter to find this but then, considering the size of our deer herd which is roughly double what it was 100 years ago, it's not unexpected. Keeping the deer herd from becoming too overpopulated might not be such a terrible thing and wolves might be one of the tools the powers that be are using.

Wolves in an area don't necessarily push everything else out. Take our situation this year for example. On opening day of deer hunting near Mountain Iron my daughter and I had a timberwolf come by within 25 yards of our position. Within 5 minutes of his passing, we shot a nice 8-point buck. Two hours later my nephew got a nice 10-pointer from his stand about 100 yards away. That same afternoon another member of our party got a nice 6-pointer from his stand also about 100 yards away. The following Thursday, Friday, and Saturday my brother counted over 15 deer that walked past his stand positions that he was using. He eventually shot an 11-pointer on Saturday evening. All of these deer were seen and taken in the same vicinity as the wolf was spotted. My brother lives in the same area and you can hear the wolves at night so they're around. Don't seem to bother the deer too much.

There seems to be some idea that a pack of timberwolves will completely clean an area out of deer. I find it hard to believe they'll do more than a pack of hunters in the same area.

If the deer population drops, the wolf population will follow suit just like any other predator/prey relationship. I see it all the time around my home. The rabbit, pheasant, and rodent population goes up and you soon see more owls, hawks, fox, and coyote in the area. As the rabbit population goes down, so too does the predator.

Bob

[JEV]

We have been dealing with wolves in our area for years. It's just part of the game. The population has certainly been on the upswing, that's for sure. We had a pair roaming through our woods the week before season opened. It was almost a week later before the deer started to move back in. When the wolves move through they are leaving scent and the deer want nothing to do with that area after that. It certainly is frustrating, but there is not a lot a guy can do about it...

JEV

[metrojoe]

Well said Bob.

I have a couple buddies that hunt up in the Northome area and have had similar experiences. Hunting is tough if there is a pack working your hunting grounds. Seems like it's different every year because the wolves don't seem to stay in one area for too long.

[Cooter]

I don't hunt in MN but listing wolves as threatened or endangered or whatever is absurd. Doesn't the state have over 2,000 of them? I feel your frustrations. I believe they are an important part of the overall health and beauty of an environment such as MN but whats wrong with a little control of them? Sure natural cycles will occur, but modern management is all about smoothing natures boom and bust swings. Plus, I think lots of people would enjoy trapping/hunting wolves - I know I would. Later.

[tealitup]

From the DNR HSOforum:

Wolf Numbers

Dividing estimated occupied range (67,852 km2) by average territory size (102 km2 X 1.37 ¡Ö 140

km2) gives an estimate of 485 wolf packs in Minnesota, 26% more than in 1997-98. Multiplying

by average pack size (~5.3) and accounting for an estimated 15% lone wolves gives a population

point estimate of 3,020 wolves, or 4.45 wolves per 100 km2 of occupied range. The 90%

confidence interval ranges from 2,301 wolves to 3,708 wolves.

I hunt area 122 - near fairbanks/tomi area. In Basset township; actually right by Basset Township Cemetary. Anyone familiar?

[onthefly]

So, since when do humans have 100% control over deer populations? Wolves need to eat too. Personally, I'm happy to see a wolf while on stand. And, I have seen a couple and heard many more in the forest I hunt.

I agree that at some point there should be a limited season on them. But, reading some of the posts on this topic just make me mad. Is hunting just about shooting deer?

Remember, we share many of the animals we hunt with others in the food chain. It's important to respect those mutual predators. And before there were humans with guns everywhere, wolves did a big part in controlling the deer population.

I love hunting deer just as much as everyone on this board. But I like it and will always do it whether I take venison home each year or not.

[Powerstroke]

So, Hunters hunted an estimated 1.2 million deer in MN last year and killed 255,736 deer. Thats a 21.3% harvest of the population. If Wolves were opened to hunting and hunters had the exact same success ratio (it would never even be close to 20%, but lets just say) than it would kill 630 of the 3000 wolves. Does anyone think that it would help?

If you check out success ratios on the DNR HSOforum for individual hunting zones, areas in far northern and northeastern MN have a pretty poor success ratio. COnsidering deer can have a home range of several miles and variations in food availability and the severe drought reducing available water......Seriously, the wolves didn't just move in during gun season.

It always hard to compare this season to past years. SOme people had the best year ever, in wolf country or not. Sometimes you just don't see the animals. It was full moon on opening weekend and who knows what else complicating things. I just think blaming the wolves is a knee jerk reaction.

"I don't hunt in MN but listing wolves as threatened or endangered or whatever is absurd. Doesn't the state have over 2,000 of them?"

Would you allow anyone to hunt deer if there was "over 2000 of them"? How about grouse? Walleyes?

[jigging-matt]

My Grandpa always used to say it is called hunting not catching. (had almost the same quote for fishing) But the point is just because you didn't get 5 deer on opening day, or fill all tags doesn't mean it wasn't a successful hunt. I hunt the southwest part of the state and out of six of us we got 2 does on opener weekend. Was it a failure or a success? Depends on how you look at it. Now obviously we don't have wolf problem but there are other factors to the lower numbers we see. No matter what we consider it a success. We got deer, had a good safe time, and just enjoyed the outdoors. I like shooting deer as much as the next guy, but we need to stop the knee jerk reactions and accept the fact that there is more than just humans preying on deer. And wolves will never harvest the amount of deer that humans do. Sorry for ranting on so long but I think it needed to be said.

[Cooter]

Would you allow anyone to hunt deer if there was "over 2000 of them"? How about grouse? Walleyes?

I see where you are coming from but its like comparing apples and oranges. Wolves are an apex predator, the other species mentioned are not.

If a hunting/trapping season were opened on them, I agree with you success rates would be low. I am no biologist but would guess controlled hunting would not cause the wolf to become extinct in MN - or anywhere else for that matter. So with no hunting as the current situation is, how can anyone seriously consider them endangered or threatened?

Its like saying on 300 acre lake X there are only 250 adult muskies so they must be endangered. Now if there was only 250 bluegills on lake X, then yes, Houston we have a problem. I'm no wolf hater, I think they're neater than heck but think the classification they receive is a bit extreme.

[Powerstroke]

I hear what you're saying. My point is people think the population is "getting out of hand" and it certainly isn't. Its way less than it ever was. People need to remember that deer were not successful in this state before agriculture was brought here. Pheasants are non-native blah blah blah.

Long before people owned the land and hunted out of the same stand for the last 30 years there was a way things worked. Just cause you didn't fill all your tags doens't mean the wolves ate all the deer.

David Mech has done an amazing amount of research on wolves, especially in MN. He can give you a chart of the home ranges of all the wolf packs in and around Ely. I can guarentee you that people in those areas did just fine hunting and others got skunked. We need to accept poor years with the good and be thankful that in past years you COULD get 5 deer on opener.

[Cooter]

Thanks for the eye opener Powerstroke, I had no clue wolf numbers in MN were down from in the past. As for the deer, was it similar to WI in that the northern parts of the state traditionally had deer and they slowly expanded to southern portions? I apologize to the original poster for getting off subject, I'm mildly scatter brained

[jerkin'm]

Seems to make sense what you're saying, but, in the field observations by many on this site as well as others count as well as a local "wolf expert" from Ely...It doesn't take experts or DNR "counts" to identify an obvious increase in wolf activity...Areas around Ely, Tower, etc, have an increase in wolf activity. To say that the DNR puts numbers at this...or Mr. whoever says these are his local wolves is plain sticking your head in the sand...There appears to be a very huntable population. Friends have seen far more wolves than deer the last few years hunting to the SE of Ely..I don't see this as a "the wolves are eating my deer" situation, but, I would like to see a season on wolves..Across the river in Ontario all it takes is a small game license to hunt them...They haven't been wiped out there...

[Cooter]

Great post Jerkin.

[BobT]

So, if we hunt wolves, what do we do with them? Take them for food? I doubt it. Take them for their pelt? Won't get enough to make it worthwhile. Hunt them just to have something to kill I suppose is about the only justification.

I can't see killing something just because it's there.

To think that wolves moving into an area is any more apt to push deer out than people moving in is absurd. We start moving into the woods in September by the droves hunting pheasants, grouse, and deer and if that isn't going to push them into hiding before November, I doubt a handful of wolves are going to be any different.

Bob

[Craig_S]

I'm actually pretty neutral on wolves. There are plenty. They do cause problems, mainly with family pets and livestock, they don't have a huge impact on the deer population.

But, a well handled wolf pelt is worth some pretty serious pocket change!

I think a well managed season is in order. It'd sooth a lot of nerves and get us some data on what's really out there.

Craig

[PerchJerker]

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So, if we hunt wolves, what do we do with them? Take them for food? I doubt it. Take them for their pelt? Won't get enough to make it worthwhile. Hunt them just to have something to kill I suppose is about the only justification.

I can't see killing something just because it's there.

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How / why would hunting or trapping for wolves be different than hunting or trapping for any other predator?

I agree that there are more than enough wolves and they should not be listed any more. And I have seen first-hand how they shut down deer activity in an area. They'll always be here and I'm okay with that, I just don't think they need the federal protection they now enjoy, especially with the way their numbers have been increasing.

[snapcrackpop]

Our season in 111 was okay. A couple of deer here and there. Definately not a great year. Went back up this last weekend and got 2 does and 2 small bucks for 4 people. Saw a couple of wolf tracks in the snow opening weekend.

Found a deer Sunday that was shot and lost a week ago and it hadn't been touched.

[Blaze]

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My point is people think the population is "getting out of hand" and it certainly isn't. Its way less than it ever was. People need to remember that deer were not successful in this state before agriculture was brought here.

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Powerstroke - can you clarify? Are you serious here or being sarcastic? On the previous page, tealitup quotes stats of a 26% increase over the 1997-98 population? Out of hand? I don't think so, but the #s are certainly coming up. Also, I believe deer did just fine in MN before agriculture took off and still do fine in non-ag areas of the state. I do agree that agriculture has helped the herd boom with food supply, etc.

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There are plenty. They do cause problems, mainly with family pets and livestock, they don't have a huge impact on the deer population.

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Craig - how many dogs/livestock are lost each year to wolves? You could probably count them on your fingers (maybe need toes too), but it's nothing compared to how many deer are killed by wolves! I've hunted NW MN for 20 yrs now, and we had a pack that stuck around our deer hunting area for about the first 10 yrs of that. We found a handful of carcasses each year, and yes, we still shot deer while the wolves were around. I once watched a doe cross the swamp in front of me, and 5 minutes later, watched a wolf trail/stalk her. That was something to see! Since the pack has moved out of our area, the deer population has really taken off.

One option: why not try an experimental season similar to what ND has going with mountain lions? Set a cap of 5 wolves/year to start, and once that # is met, the season is closed. In ND you pay a small fee like $3 when buying your small game license for the ability to take one.

[ddp]

Hey Teal,

I hunt 122. just south of the brimson cemetary/353 on hwy 16. I had posted earlier. 1 for 6. How did you do? My relative is on the St. Louis County maintanance crew in the Brimson area (plow, mow, etc.) This year is the most he has ever seen and he's been doing it for years. They have a hunting shack a couple miles away from us and of course they went 2 for 2:)

[caseymcq]

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...Friends have seen far more wolves than deer the last few years hunting to the SE of Ely...

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I live, work and hunt in this same area. The number of deer I have seen in this area is much higher than the number of wolves that I have seen. In all honesty I see deer on a daily basis and wolves every once in a while. I'm not sure if it is just timing/luck(or bad luck)/coincidence that your friends have seen more wolves than deer but that is really suprising. There are a ton of deer in this area.

[tealitup]

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Hey Teal,

I hunt 122. just south of the brimson cemetary/353 on hwy 16. I had posted earlier. 1 for 6. How did you do? My relative is on the St. Louis County maintanance crew in the Brimson area (plow, mow, etc.) This year is the most he has ever seen and he's been doing it for years. They have a hunting shack a couple miles away from us and of course they went 2 for 2:)

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We have a shack pretty close to you. Off of 16 - Basset Town Cemetary. Two miles into the woods. I shot a doe and nice 8 point buck (at the same time) and we got another buck and one doe. So, four for six guys.

[BobT]

Actually, I don't feel any differently regarding other predators. I don't take an animal unless I have use for it and for me that means meat.

I believe there are only a couple reasons predators are hunted.

1. Pelt or other body parts.

2. To protect livestock and, although rare, human life.

3. Fear.

4. Enjoyment of the sport.

The former two reasons are legitimate in my view but the latter two don't deserve support.

Bob