Fine a little steep!

[NEANGLER]

A buddy of mine and his buddies(from MN) were fishing up on Gorman's a couple of weeks ago and we were stopped by the DNR just after sunset. He pulls up and the first thing he says is who is the guy from NE - here we go as we both look at each other. He says do you know the rules here in MN and I say yes - then why don't you have your lights on. Both me and my buddy go they are on and look at the lights - not on. We had had them on but as we started to get ready to follow his buddies boat to a new spot I turned the interior lights on and bumped the nav. light switch to off. Not 3 minutes later he pulls his boat up. He claims he did not see them on - o.k. - so I turn them back on. We have everything else we were supposed to have, LJ, FE,throwable, licenses, etc. and proceeds to write me a ticket for the lights. I guess I should have protested more but since they were not on but were working thought he may just give me a warning.

Then he writes me the ticket but says I have no idea what the fine amount is!?!? I have to call the court house to get it. Don't they have a handbook that gives them the fine amount and court costs? Anyway we decide to go to another spot and watch as they go check on our buddies. When we meet them at the launch he says they just got a warning for a empty FE! I think that is more in violation than my light situation - it would have been different if they did not work at all and if we were moving. But my biggest frustration isn't that I got the ticket (since I was techincally in violation) it is the amount of the fine. $110!! You can get speeding tickets that cost less than that. For the violation I think this is an excessive amount but believe me I will tape down my light switch next time. So none of you forget to turn you lights on - it could have bought a lot of bait.

[Froggy4371]

I will give you this. I also believe that you should have got a warning. But in the defence of the CO they do not have a little book that they can refer to for fines because depending on the county the court costs change and vary by county. And with them how are they do keep track of every fee there. Also I will tell you this. In Minnesota there is not a speeding ticket to be had for $110. Maybe if you were giving a administrative citation but not a normal one.

Like I said I do believe that the lights thing should have been given a warning not a ticket.

Froggy

[jbell1981]

Quote:

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In Minnesota there is not a speeding ticket to be had for $110. Maybe if you were giving a administrative citation but not a normal one.

---

That is not true, My wife got one in Fairhaven this past winter. It was $95 for any speeding ticket. She was going 55 in a 30 and it would have been the same if she was going 40 in the 30.

As far as the the ticket for the lights, maybe the CO gave you a ticket because you posed a concern for other boater in the area if they hit you because you did not have lights on. Where as your friend not having a filled Fire extinguisher did not pose a threat to other boaters.

[mtreno]

you will get a ticket for no lights everytime. would you expect to drive down the highway at night with your headlights off and just get a warning? $110 is cheap - thought you should get off cause they work..... come on - if they were off then your in the wrong. end of story. how much is the no nav. lights ticket in NE?

[BobT]

I agree with mtreno. One thought. You mentioned that you maybe could have protested more. At what point did you begin to protest, before or after the ticket was issued? If you showed any disrespect at all, a CO might be inclinded to let you argue your case in court.

One thing to keep in mind. The CO doesn't have the last say. He/she is only filing the charges. That is why he/she doesn't know the fine amount. It can depend on many factors. You can defend yourself in court if you feel you have a case and so choose.

Bob

[NEANGLER]

Did a little checking and it is $50 here. I know I was in the wrong even though they worked and were on for a time - He had to have seen them on as they were coming toward us to check us. It's just that I have seen and heard of people getting warnings for more of a violation as mine was - oh well - chock it up to experience to triple check everything in the boat at all times. At least they are doing there job, here your lucky to see a CO (been checked 2 times in 16 years hunting and fishing) been checked at least once every year in the past 20 in MN. as far as protesting I basically jsut told him that they had been on and I must have bumped the switch when I turned the lights on. I also said they probably saw them as they were coming towards us. Other than that I did not say anything even after the ticket was issued - not worth arguing and getting bent out of shape for it.

[cliffy]

The bottom line is that you were in violation of the law. Take it as a learning experience and move on. Everyone thinks they deserve a "warning" because someone else is doing something more serious or a bigger violation....or they are just a good person and it was a mistake. Well, that isn’t how life works. I, as a Law Enforcement Officer, have no idea of your ethics. I will be honest, I assume everyone is good at heart. So, what? I am only to enforce the law to those that have a proven track record of being criminals? No. I don’t think that would work very well.

Each officer has to develop a system or reasoning as to why and who gets tickets. This has to be based of fairness and being unbiased. For example, I would hope that this same CO would give the same ticket to all others in the similar or same situation. Also, I would suspect he would give the same warning to others that were in your friend’s position. Is this an absolute truth? Of course not. It would be foolish of me to sit here and try to convince you that every officer is the same and they treat every situation exactly the same. They are human, they have emotions, feelings and they sometimes make poor choices and yes, even mistakes. Each officer is a little bit different..therefore his/her choice of tickets is going to be somewhat different.

Now for the fine amounts. Welcome to MN. The land of 10,000 fines! I would say you got off pretty cheap........I have handed out my fair share of 200-350.00 speeding tickets. In my opinion, this state is getting a little out of control on the fine amounts....but that is a whole other issue.

Good Luck

Cliffy

[Froggy4371]

Jbell,

I think that maybe she got a ordinance citation or a administrative citation because in most area's the fine increases for every five mph faster you go. Maybe I am wrong. If I am kool. Not that I am trying to start anything.

Froggy

[deepportage01]

all right heer we go. I think the co's word is the law and if you are in the wrong your in the wrong. if you dont like it take it to court that is a option in this state. how ever small the violation you cant even bend the laws, if every body did that our state would be devoid of fish and game with plenty of acedents on the water.I know your violation was a small one but it is what it is.i also think that co's get sick of out of state fishermen not folowing the laws no mater how small I dont think you are one of those"bad out of state guys" but to a co your are just a out of state person not following the rules they see things in black and white.sorry for your fine and good luck on your next trip to mn.

[jbell1981]

Froggy,

It was a ticket like you would get anywhere else, but instead of the step increases for speed it was just a flat fine. I thought it was odd myself. I have had plenty of speeding tickets and had never seen one like this.

[BobT]

Your comment about the fact that you were even visited by a CO is interesting.

For a number of years we did not have a local CO working our area around Osakis and I'm sure word got around. I'll tell you this, in the past 1-1/2 years there is definitely a stepped up presence and it is refreshing to see. I have been visited on at least 5 seperate occasions on Lake Osakis alone.

Two weeks prior to the closing of fishing in Februrary 2005 I finally had opportunity to get out ice fishing. I decided to purchase my shelter license and the saleperson seemed a little shocked that I would be doing so with only 2 weekends left. I figured it would have cost me the same no matter when I purchased. Well, good thing I did because I wasn't in the house more than 10 minutes when visited. About 30 minutes later I was visited again by another officer.

That same year on opening day of the fishing season I was visited and again the next day on Sunday. A week later he stopped by again. He now knows me by name.

Last fall while hunting the early goose season I was visited again by two COs. Chatted with the officers for about 45 minutes about everything from soup to nuts.

Needless to say, I think twice about making sure I follow the laws appropriately.

Bob

[nofishfisherman]

The way it goes is the guy makes a mistake and gets fined. We all get together and tell the guy that he broke the law so deal with the fine.

Then its your turn for making a mistake and getting the fine and then you get your chance to come here and complain and then you get to listen to everyone tell you that you broke the law so deal with the fine.

But, sooner or later another guy will come along and make a mistake and get fined and he'll start complaining on here. So thats when you get to go back to the other group and you again get to start telling the guy that he broke the law so deal with the fine.

Its a fun little cycle, but its not much fun when its your turn for the fine.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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The way it goes is the guy makes a mistake and gets fined. We all get together and tell the guy that he broke the law so deal with the fine.

Then its your turn for making a mistake and getting the fine and then you get your chance to come here and complain and then you get to listen to everyone tell you that you broke the law so deal with the fine.

But, sooner or later another guy will come along and make a mistake and get fined and he'll start complaining on here. So thats when you get to go back to the other group and you again get to start telling the guy that he broke the law so deal with the fine.

Its a fun little cycle, but its not much fun when its your turn for the fine.

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[deepportage01]

so true, I have to admit you made me laugh out loud when I read you take on the whole thing. one thing is for sure if I ever get a ticket and I will I sure am not going to post it all jokes aside thanks for that little eye opener.

[Wade Joseph]

I just feel fortunate that there are so many perfect people with flawless equipment who never make a mistake gracing our waters and woods.

Fine seems steep, sorry you had to pay for a minor mistake anyone could easily have made.

[dirtking]

Doesn’t the backlight have to be on at all times? (The white light on the pole) You should have noticed that light was off right away. I do agree though - fines suck

[Fishin4Life]

My front lights went out the other night. i guess I am lucky I booked off the lake and didn't get a fine. I didn't know they cost so much. I had a buddy holding a lanturn up there, so at least we made an effort. Stupid lights

[NEANGLER]

Didn't notice that the light was off cause I turned my back to turn the interior lights on and my buddy was pulling up the anchors. Just as I was going to start up the engine we saw the CO driving up. Main reason I posted was to just let everyone know to make sure their lights are on at all times as $110 is quite a lot no matter who you are.

[Wavey Davey]

I can see how it happened, it's very easy to bump a switch on the dash without knowing it. Got a different boat this year and one thing I don't like is the toggle switches and steering wheel are too close. Several times I have hit the livewell switch without knowing it just by turning the steering wheel. I have been thinking I should put some type of guard over the switches. Anyone have the same problem and have any ideas?

[Fishin4Life]

You could get a switch like the use to launch missles. With the plastic case that you have to flip

Sounds stupid, but its the only way i could explain what i meant. HAHA. Then tell the newbies in your boat it deploys the dynamite when you can't catch fish the regular way, haha.

[deeky]

On one hand, I agree, $110 out of my pocket would be steep. But looking at the bigger picture, read through the June conservation tales and count the number of repeat offenders. Are the penalties really too high in the bigger picture if they are failing to encourage people to stop the behavior? Isn't that their purpose?

Sucks that you had to pay out $110, but like you said, you'll never do it again. Good for you. Looking at the bigger picture, (sorry, I'm going to step outside the bounds of fishing) I think a couple of months for drink driving is not nearly steep enough when they go out under the influence again and kill someone. A little more dramatic, but the same concept as fishing laws/fines.

[Fishin4Life]

I have paid my share of tickets (speeding, etc...) I feel the fines are set at reasonable rates. I don't mind paying $300 for a speeding ticket, I know I was in the wrong. In my opinion they can raise them even higher. If you break the law then pay the price. Fine by me.

[stmichael]

I agree about paying the fine, but, with the way some of the regulations are written, they are speaking in tongues...sometimes tongues and circles.

I did say in some regulations....not all.

[BobT]

That's interesting that 1) you have paid your share and 2) you don't mind paying the fine. This definitely reiterates the sentiments of the previous post that the penalties aren't strong enough.

Bob

[toughguy]

I hear ya on the price of the ticket. I can understand higher fines for intentional blatant law breaking, but the guy had his white light plugged in and in the air. In most cases I bet a CO would give a warning in this situation. I get checked 5 or more times a year fishing, ice fishing, and hunting and I find that the COs are very easy to deal with and often give warnings for minor/unintentional equipment violations. The poor guy is just saying his fine was a little more than he expected. I agree. $110 does seem a little high. It also burns a little more when you didn't even know you weren't breaking a law when you get the ticket.