Buying new boat - need some advice

[fishlakeman]

I am been looking to purchase a new boat for close to a year now. I have done a lot of research on the different boats and motors available. I recently went to the boat shows here in the Twin Cities and was presented with a couple options I am seriously considering. If anybody has any experience with either the boat or the motor I am looking at, your feedback would be greatly appreciated. Here are some of the options I have been seriously considering:

1. New 2004 18' Lund Explorer with 150 Suzuki 2-Str. The folks at Crystal-Peirz presented me with this option. I kind of had my mind set on a Yamaha 4-Str, but this was an attractive option with of a price around 16,500. My biggest concern is I'm not real familiar with Suzuki motors. The thing would be a gas hog, but absolutely fly. Supposedly it tops out at close to 60 mph.

2. New 2005 18' Lund Explorer with 115 Yamaha 4-Str. After all the research this past year, this was originally the boat I was hoping to purchase. However, the prices at the show seemed a little high. All the Explorers were right around 20,000. Also, do you think a 115 4-Str is enough power for this boat? I would like to be able to easily pull skiers when I'm not fishing. I have heard there is some concerns with the hole shots on the 4-Stoke's. Another problem has been finding the Yamaha's now that there is a big tariff on these motors. The only place that had them was Rapid Sport.

3. Used 17' 2003 Lund Pro-V with 115' Yamaha 4-Str. Was hoping to buy new, but this sounded like a good deal at 17,500. Supposedly in mint condition, could be a pretty good option.

Well, those are the options I have been considering. I hope you guys could help out with some expert advice, thanks.

[jt24]

I am also in the market for a boat and was looking at the 18' explorer or the Mr. Pike. I have decided to go with the Mr. Pike because of the rod lockers and it being a little better boat but it costs more. The motor thing i am questioning to. The 4 strokes are heavier,more expensive and dont have a very good hole shot. The new 2 strokes are suppose to be as good as the 4 strokes on gas with the added quickness. I am leaning more towards the 150 envinrude. As far as what size is right, if you can afford it max out the HP. If you cant then the so called "rule" is no less than 20% of max HP. Way to many people under power a boat to save money. That 16500 price seems really low? I just priced out one and it was closer to 20k with a 150. I guess it depends on what trailer you get and any other acesseries. Price on the pro-v isnt bad but used is used and might be a little under powered unless its a tiller. Hopefully i helped.

[mamohr686]

I think the above info about hole shot is poor. Your prop determines your holshot, not the type and size of your outboard. A smaller pitch prop that is vented properly will bring that boat up on plane easily. I know many people running 115hp motors on heavier glass boats than the one your looking at. A 4 blade stainless prop will give you good hole shot top end as long as you can get the motor's rpm within 200 of the max operating range with a full load. Suzuki runs a good warranty and crystal pierz has some of the best service in MN. I run a yamaha myself and after running a merc 150 XR-6 and johnson 90 degree 120hp I won't own another brand of outboard than yamaha. Honestly I think if you comprimise and buy a demo boat or a 1 or 2 year old boat you will get much more for your money. walleyecentral.com has a good selection of used walleye rigs for sale. I won't buy a new boat only to let it depreciate more than a car. Let the original owner take the hit. Also a comparitively equiped alumnacraft or crestliner will save you about 3-4K upfront, but the lund has better resale in the end and is a great boat.

[Valv]

You have some tough choices here.

I would opt for a smaller motor than a 150hp on an Explorer, it's a farely light boat and you will not need all that power, unless you intend to "beat" bass boats on tournaments.

Suzuki are great motors, the 2 strokes nowadays are very economical, not quite as much as a 4 stroke, but very close, but the performance is much better.

It is not true that holeshot is same on all motors, it is true that a different or hight performance prop will help a 4 stroke, but a 2 stroke has more "get up and go" than a 4.

Since Yamaha has been brought to attention, it's the best way to explain it, they make the V-Max, HDPI, and 4 stroke.

V-Max is 2 stroke high perf for bass boats and anybody that wants a screamer, HDPI is an excellent motor with economy comparable to 4 stroke but not quite as "quick" as V-Max, and 4 stroke is the economical (gas mileage) and quiet, but looses in performance compared to other 2 but price and weight is much higher.

I would also look at all the options between the boats:

Pro-V has most features and comforts, Mr-Pike a little less, and Explorer less.

It's really a tough choice, even if personally I love the Explorer for being simple and easy to fish from.

The resale value has some issues too, Lund has the highest in the 8 surrounding states, and a 4 stroke will keep it's value more than a 2 stroke.

[uffdapete]

You're right about the Suz 150 2 stroke being a gas hog - to the tune of 1.5-2 mpg in my experience. That was on a 18.5' Mirrocraft.

[fishlakeman]

Thanks for the responses! Keep them coming!

What kind of rpm were you running with the suzuki 150? Full throttle or nearly full? Are you satisfied with the suzuki 150? I'm thinking because it's such a light boat I could run it at fairly low rpm's and still be going pretty good, which would give me better gas milage. Your comment is alarming, because that does sound terrible for gas milage.

Does anybody have an idea what kind of top end I would have with a 115 4-stroke on either the 17 Pro-V or the 18 Explorer?

[leechlake]

I'd guess in the 40-44 mph. I have a 1800 prov ifs with a yam 175 vmax hpdi and it goes 58-62 depending on weight, it does have a stainless prop. I'd expect that range (or higher maybe) with the 1800 with the 150. I like going fast as much as anyone but remember you spend most of the time fishing not running. I fish big lakes and I still don't run that much as compared to fishing. That said, I'd pick the most comfortable boat, nothing wrong with having a lot of space. You seem concerned about speed also, I've been there. I had an underpowed boat once and it was horrible. You'll end up wanting a bigger motor and you'll have to trade in your old one and get the 150. From what I've read I'd go with the 1800 and the 150hp, the extra fuel cost is nothing. Fuel is free when you aren't using it in the non summer season! It's fun figuring out what to buy though isn't it?

[uffdapete]

That was actually my brother's rig and I should clarify the motor was a '91. He rarely ran over 2/3. The motor ran decent, just thirsty.

He now has a 115 4 cycle Suzi on the same boat and no it doesn't perform like the 150 did but when you run from 10-80 miles a day and being on the water 90-100 days a year...... do the math. The 115 has been a great motor and it's extremely quiet and efficient.

It's strictly a fishing boat - no skiing, tubing, pleasure or tournaments. I think he's in the high 30's gps depending on load. It would be interesting to see what a 140 would do in comparison.

[18 inch Crappie]

I bought a 17' Smokercraft full windsheild last year with a Johnson 115 4 stroke. And I love the thing, go 4 stroke or one of the direct injection 2 strokes. What people say about the hole shot depends on the set up, my boat is up on plane in under 2sec, it has balls. Better gas mileage and no smoke.. The Yamahas are lighter apples to apples, and was going to get one but Link Rec did not sell them and after talking, the Johnson was a great motor. My boat weight is 1200 dry. And GPS out at 45mph at 6000 rpms. If you buy used, you do not have to pay sales tax if you did not buy it from a dealer. (ways to save money)

[muchowja]

FYI...You still have to pay sales tax on a used boat when you transfer the title. Cars, trucks, ATV's too.

[18 inch Crappie]

If I remember right, not on my jet ski or my last used boat. I did not pay sales tax. Just talk to the DMV no sales tax on DNR vehicles (jet ski and boats ect.) You will if you buy from a dealer they have to collect it, but if you buy from a privite party and go transfer the title no sales tax.....

[fishlakeman]

Well, right now I'm leaning toward the 18' Explorer with the 150 Suzuki. I'm still not completely hooked yet, I like the speed and power with the suzuki, but it sounds like the 115 4- stk would be suitable and there you get a proven reliable, fuel efficient engine.

Thanks for all who have replied, you have really helped, but keep the comments coming, as I'm still not sure yet.

If anyone knows of someone wanting to sell their 18 Explorer or a 17 or 18 Pro-v let me know as it sounds like a 2003 or 2004 model could be a possibility.

[196thDLR]

fishlakeman: What a problem to have. FYI, during 1998 I bought a used 1775 Pro-V with a 2-stroke 70HP Yamaha circa 1992. In July 2003, I traded the 2-stroke for a 75HP Yamaha 4-stroke. { I run a tiller boat.} Yes, I lost a little power on the hole-shot, but went from 2-3 mpg to 6-7-1/2 mpg. I went from killing every mosquito in St. Louis County on start up, to, is this motor running? I can speak to my passengers without a bullhorn on full throttle. I do not regret the purchase at all. Just make sure you buy what you want. Check with Valv, he sometimes has some pretty good deals down there. Good Luck and Good Fishing!!

[SUNNYD]

I have a 2003 Lund Angler 1700 SS with 115 Yamaha 4 Stroke and going to the 4 stroke and paying the extra money was probably the best decision I made. Now I know they do not make this particular model anymore(Newly designed Explorer took its place in Lund's lineup), but this was the best value the we found when looking at boats.

A couple bad decisions I made when buying this boat included...

1. Not upgrading the trolling motor. My boat came with a 12 volt, 55lb, 55" bow mounted Minnkota. Nice on calm days, but a pain when it got windy. In 2004 I sold the 55lb and purchased a 74lb 24-volt, 60" Minnkota and haven't looked back. It is always nice to have the extra power and length when you need it.

2. Seriously look at upgrading your trailer. My boat came on a 2100 lb trailer, needless to say I did a little math (1145lb - boat, 400+ lb motor, approx. 200 lbs fuel, 3 60lb batteries, trolling motor and misc. gear ~ 200 lbs = 2125), making the trailer a little under powered. I went back to the dealer a month later and traded my 2100 for a 2400, just in case I wanted to throw a cooler or two in the boat....lol !

In terms of speed and engine performance the 115 4 stroke moves me at about 42 mph fully loaded down which is plenty fast for me. Take off the trolling motor and 2 batteries and your will see this number jump considerably, probably 3-5 MPH.

Good luck on your search for a new boat!

Take care!

[wisconsinfish]

Stay away from the 150hp suzuki 2-stroke. Economy, reliability and resale is bad. Try to max out the hp as close as you can, no one sais you have to run wide open.

If it was my choice, I would get the boat you want and put a 140hp suzuki or johnson 4-stroke (which are the same motor) or a yamaha F150 four stroke on it(if boat takes a 150). Performance wise it is a little slower out of the hole and top end than a 2 stroke high pressure fuel injected model, but you'll be glad you got the 4-stroke if you ever want to try to troll with it. It is possible to troll with a suzuki 140 4-stroke.

The guys are right you can get better hole shot with different props, but as a generic rule of thumb when doing that, the better hole shot the less top end speed.

I have a friend with a crestliner 1750 fish hawk and 115 johnson/suzuki 4-stroke that runs 52-55 with a mercury 3-blade stainless prop(gps speed).

My brothers crestliner 1850 fishhawk with 150 evinrude Ficht ram runs 53-57. He can get more top speed with other props, but then with 4 people and all the tackle it is slow to get up. Those are gps speeds. Never listen to someone that gives you a speed off of their depth finder or boat instruments. They can vary by quite a bit. The crestliner 1850 for example reads 59-62 on dash instrument and 51-54on sonar with gps saying 53-57. Compared 4 gps units and all were with in 1mph.

If it's a glass boat, stay away from 4 strokes. Get a good 2-stroke fuel injected model. Stay away from carburated whether 2 or 4 stroke models. That is where you gain fuel economy, performance, smooth running and better start up.

[Mueller]

Last year I too was looking for a new boat. I was interested in the 17 Explorer, 1700 Angler and 1775 Pro-V. I went from dealer to dealer and back more times than once. Finally, I settled on the 1775 Pro-V and haven't looked back. One thing that sold me on the 1775 was the under deck rod storage, I think the 2003 that you are looking at has the same hatch with the storage for rods. No longer do I have to clump my rods in a corner and untangle rods to fish. I believe the Explorers do not have that type of rod storage. You might want to look at the new Lund Mr. Pikes They both have the under deck rod storage like the Pro V's.

Good Luck

Mueller

[muchowja]

When you register your boat for the first time, know its length, manufacturer, type of hull material (wood, metal, or plastic), type of propulsion, model, year, serial or hull identification number (HIN) and have a sales receipt that shows you have paid the sales tax.(DNR HSOforum)

I think that means that if you haven't paid sales tax on it that you must at the time of registration.

[Ole1855]

muchowja,

If you're buying a used boat from an individual you don't have to pay sales tax. I bought a boat last year and I was expecting to have to come up with an extra $910 when I transfered the title but I didn't.

Ole

[slabberknocker]

I too was in the market for a new boat last year so I went to the boat show so I could look at the big three under the same roof. I quickly took Crestliner out of the picture. I had it narrowed down to a Lund Fisherman 1800 and an Alumacraft 175 Trophy. I walked away that night with the Alumacraft. More options were standard and was also about $3500 cheaper. I did not think what the Lund had compared to the Alumacraft was worth $3500. I put a 140 hp Johnson 4-stroke and that motor is awesome. Quiet, efficient and I think the hole shote is pretty good. It pops out of the water pretty good. I am not to concerned on the resale. It is either pay more now and get more later or pay less now and get less later. I cant say enough good things about my Alumacraft.

Also, Ole and the rest are right about no tax on private sales. I sold my boat privately last year and they did not have to pay tax. I also sold a 4-wheeler the same way, no tax. This was debated last year.

Slab

[waterwolff]

Shop around for a used boat there are alot of them out there that are in showroom condition with low motor running hours with high end electronic packages and for thousands less than new plus the added bonus of not paying tax on the boat, motor, and goodies associated with the boat. If memory serves me right the only thing you are taxed on is the trailer

[Wobbler]

Fishlakeman,

I too was looking at a new boat and coincidentally I picked the same options as you did. The boat dealer I talked with said the 115 Honda I was looking at was plenty of power for an 18 foot Explorer SS but he said for resale value you should get at least a 130 or max it out. The ProV is a nice boat and once you take your mind off the payments 6 months of the year you don't use it then you are all right. I was really close to buying the 150 Honda with the Explorer but after maxing out the trolling motor like what was recommended here, batteries, cover, etc., the boat was over $25,000. I can't believe a dealer would put a 150 Suzuki on and the whole package is $17,000! I would keep your eyes out for a newer used boat. Good used boats are out there! That is what I am watching out for a 2 or 3 year old Explorer with a 4 stroke and maxed out!

[Fish Head]

I'm toying with the idea of getting a boat like the ones being discussed here. It seems most everyone has mentioned the explorer and the pro-v, but nobody has mentioned the Mr. Pike. Why is that? The Mr. Pike 1800 is about $2,000 more than the Explorer 1800, but it is a lot of boat! Anyone have a Mr. Pike or an opinion on it?

[LABS4ME]

I just sold my 17' Mr Pike... Loved it! But the wife wanted a full windshield or at least a dual console... so I ended up really upgrading, win-win for each of us. She didn't like getting sprayed being out in the open. I really liked the layout of the Pike and fishing out of it. I'd recommend this boat to anyone, just get the dual console. It chops the floor up a little bit, but it would be a dryer ride for the passenger.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Northlander]

The new 18' Mr.Pike is a really nice ride! I have a 2004 17' Explorer and a Yamaha 115 4 stroke. Only thing I dont like about the boat is where the control is. Its too close to my right thigh and I bump it every now and then. Other than that I have a 55# thrust bow mount and will be moving up to a 65 at least. Its great on average days but in high current or wind its just not enough. Great gas mileage and ok speed. I get between 39 and 42 fully loaded with 2 people. Weight distribution is real important. I have heard a lot of good things about the Suzuki 4 strokes but I really have had great luck with my Yamahas. Lots of guys I know run them and love them. Also play with props. Im having mine cupped this spring by Jay Soderbloom and hope it gets me a little more speed. My hole shot is already great and I believe Im running a 19 pitch 3 blade. I go back and forth with props and I think thats what I finished the summer with. If you have prop questions or ding your prop or lower unit I highly recomend Jay Soderbloom. Lots of knowledge and best prices around. www.soderbloom.com

[buzzsaw]

My opinion is that you can't really go wrong with either a Lund or a Crestliner.. I personally just traded in my 2002 Crestliner Sportfish w/Mercury 125HP 2 stroke for a 2005 Crestliner 1850 Sportfish w/Yamaha 150 HP fourstroke... Lowrance LMS 330 up front and the LMS 332c at the steering counsil... Minnkota 70 Pd autopilot... I believe it's more about what you outfit one of those two boats with that makes it more appealing...Can't wait for iceout! Let us know what you choose!

[Fish Head]

I agree with you Buzzsaw that how you outfit the boat makes a huge difference.

Just last night I was looking at G3 boats. It looks like you can get a lot of boat for the money with a G3. Only downside I see is that they are riveted instead of welded.