tossing around an idea....

[mnboy26]

How much would you pay for 24 hour on ice monitoring for your permanent fish house. Im thinking of possibly starting a service that provides this type of security. is this something fellow house owners would pay for to protect their investments? I currently own a summer only business and have all kinds of free time in the winter....would probably be on only one lake this winter but if it was a service that was well recepted it could spread to other lakes. I have ideas on how to do it, like having the people who have houses check in and out when they come out fishing and when leaving, and doing rounds to the empty houses. also watching traffic in and out and watch where they go.I understand it would be a very area specific deal at first but maybe have a couple people out per lake or however many is needed....give me your feedback and tell me what you think....

craig

[psegriz]

This is just me. I take all my gear with me so there isn't anything to steal. Then I'll leave my door open so would be thieves don't kick in the door thinking there is. I've had strangers using the house when I've gotten there. If I had room i'd let them stay and fish. Couple mornings people have ben sleeping in my house when i got to it. Once a kid got dissorientated in a wind storm and was not dressed for it. The other time this pair had no business trying to drive off the lake. Either case I wasn't bothered by people using my house no one has damaged it and besides I like to have my gear with me if I'm going to be using a different house. That is just me and I'm sure others would like to pay for a service like that.

[beer batter]

What would happen if you're on somebody's payroll and they get robbed anyway? Thieves come in the middle of the night, are you going to be out there monitoring it then?

I have my doubts on the service unless you'd be sitting out on the lake where my house resides driving around the lake on a snowmobile or 4 wheeler all night every night.

Could you provide more details on the service you'd be providing?

[arbuck]

If you want my opinion I don't think it would be something that I would use but again this is just my thoughts. Just a thought, it seems other people on the same lake that don't subscribe to your service would also bennifit by having you out there unless of course you would let people break into houses that were not on your subscriber list.

Just my thoughts

arbuck.

[iffwalleyes]

Waste of time any money. I wouldn't pay a dime for anything like that. A normal partrol is fine but what happens when someone comes in between your stops then what. I would be more upset about pay someone to watch my house and have something stolen that if it was just taken in the first place.

[PikeTipper]

One way around that is to see if a resort wants to hire you and just charge everyone a little more for this service. I too have my doubts but just posting at the access that these areas are monitored at night by security may stop a thief from coming to that area.

I take most of my stuff with me every time too but things like the heater and propane tanks are always out there. Just bugs me that a topic like this even has to come up because some people have no respect for other peoples property.

[Ice9]

Obviously the value of such a service goes beyond just apprehending the culprits and putting them to sleep with the fishes. If word gets around that you're patrolling a certain lake you'll push the thieves somewhere else...also posting signs on houses and otherwise deterring thieves will benefit all. For lakes with limited access points and roads, a little video surveillance would also go a long way. I'd pay some for the service myself, if only to have somebody keeping an eye on my stuff and keeping tabs on the fishing. As for what happens if you're hit anyway, well, that's business; you have to judge whether you believe a service is worth the money. You have to start somewhere. Does sound like a lot of lonely nights on the lake. I'd just take turns spending the night in the houses without a truck out front and with the lights off, catching fish and keeping watch. I know a plot to get more fishing in when I see one.

ice

[Ed Carlson]

You would almost need a wireless security alarm that alerted a person or system monitoring the area. If the alarm sounded a security person could respond. A very loud light and sound system so others on the ice would also notice it and take notice of the people there at the time.

A periodic patrols would discourage evil do'rs to a point. The treat of video surveillance on areas to access is another deterrent. Even a dummy camera at ramps can have an effect on dirtbags scouting for easy scores too.

I would think some type of alarm system on the shack would almost be a certainty to make it all work?

Not a bad idea. It may work well in hi-risk areas that a wireless alarm system would be cost effective to use? It may be an idea to bounse off a regional security company and you can test drive the market?

[Bearfish]

The idea itself is interesting.

I agree with Ed. Small (hiddden) security system you could lease to shack owners. Either visual/sound or silent alarm that would signal back to you at a nearby location to investigate.

Problem: confronting a thief(s). How would you handle that? Call police at 3:00 am...from the middle of a frozen lake while you wait with an ice chisel pressed to the guy's temple?

[Tahoe2349]

Bearfish is correct in the confrontation department. You have no authority to subdue with force without being contracted by that county I'm sure for that reason. (good luck)

You can take plate numbers and any other evidence and turn it over to the DNR and county to investigate and thats about it.

My Dad fell victim to such curcumstances with a heck of a story behind it that almost put him in jail protecting his own house. He went "James Bond" on a plan in 1996 and caught them red handed after two break ins... We lived 500 yards from the house right on the lake in plain site.

Not only were they brave, they had the b***s to file charges on "him" when he boobie trapped their efforts and cuaght them..

He has a WHEELED HOUSE now due to this event and it goes everywhere he does.. lol

[I'llTakeWhatiCanGet]

Definitely an interesting idea, if you picked the right lake, you could probably make it work. From a business standpoint, i think your best bet would be to locate a lake with heavy fishing pressure (and lots of permanents) that is subject to frequent break-ins. Most likely that would be near the metro area. If you could gather a group of guys who put shacks out on that particular lake, you could probably work out something similar to a 'neighborhood watch' and maybe those who don't have the time could lend some cash. I'm not sure how profitable you'd be, at least right away, but there's something to be said for having an 'occupation' that REQUIRES you to spend time out on the ice Good luck, and keep us posted on what comes out of this.

[Dan Thiem]

Bearfish-

Just read your reply, I got a mental picture of the ice chisel thing. LAUGHED my a$$ off.

Thanks!

[mnboy26]

Ive thought of most of the stuff you folks have come up with....the small wireless devices might have to wait a couple of years. I have a security background, was forced to take a course on security law while doing that for a couple of well known large companies a couple of years ago.

as far as confronting them goes if you do it the right way it wont ecsalate, i will be in contact with the local law inforcement, get plate numbers descriptions and track them with the cell till the sheriff arrives. on the topic of what happens when a house gets broken into while on watch...this is a tough one but hopefully all the cost my insurance co has to cover is a broken hasp or lock on the door. If i do this right that shouldnt happen. I would be on the ice all night long with snowmobie, truck and 4 wheeler, i would have full insurance. As far as letting folks houses get broken into who werent on my pay list, I would watch those houses too but without knowing thw owner and who uses the house there is a better chance that their house may be abused, not because im a bad guy but because i wouldnt be familiar with thier situation. hope i answered most of your questions....just want to save some people some sleepless nights worrying about their stuff.

i hate that this even has to be considered but a little piece of mind goes a long way.

and finding employees shouldnt be too hard....here sit here look over your tip ups and watch those houses from your warm truck....then jump on my sled drive around and check stuff out....lol any takers in this group....thats right you too can get paid to fish:)

craig

[The Grebe]

Hate to be a naysayer, but observing winter fishing communities would take quite an observation system...kinda like an....AIRPORT RADAR UNIT!

Not all fish houses are together in one group, there may be several spread out groups?

Who's to say the bogies are going to be in a vehicle, they may come in on sleds? And lets face it, most of the video cams can't even get a clear picture of a robber in a bank!

Like mentioned above what are you going to do if you do catch one of the perps....Pull his hair? Hold him in an arm lock until the constable comes out and pinches him for flitching a styrofoam minnow bucket?

Lots of dough to get the operation up and running and then the wages and legal fees that would be involved, payment for fixing the cameras that someone shot off the pole with the ought six, cut wires, dead batteries, cleaning bird doodoo off the lens, paying someone to monitor and interpet, legal things...like your word against theirs, maybe assault charges, breach of contract suits from those that partook of the service and still got robbed, all kinds of stuff.

What about the costs of insurance, work comp.,comprehensive and liability, medical, (Like when you come up against the thief that grabs you by the neck and uses your head for a speed bag!). Liability for when you lay hands on a minor, etc.

I figure that in order to break even, you would only have to charges the average fishouse owner about $11,000.00 a season! Sign me up!!!

[Dan Thiem]

I would think that everbody in the group would need to have some kind of identification tag or something. Otherwise how would the security guards/nite fishermen know if they were legit?

[mnboy26]

I already pay insurance, workmans comp and have a leagal team for my summer business, so thats all in place, im forced to pay it year around anyway so thats already taken care of, i have a million dollar policy for all the things listed above. as far as replacment costs for equipment thats all a tax write off so its taken care of too. the start up cost for someone who wanted to do it off the street might be a bit high but i have alot of this stuff in place already....the houses would have id tags on them, the fisherman would give a quick call to say they are there...and if they forget, i get to stop and ask hw the bite is.....

geez maybe i am thinking about this too much..

craig

[PikeTipper]

Hey now don't discourage the guy, especially if he is planning on watching ice houses on the south side of Mille Lacs.

[The Grebe]

Does your comp and insurances, etc. act as a blanket for any type of biz that you want to get into? Ours does'nt?

Each business is charged at a different rate, a tree trimmers is going to be higher then a less risky business, etc.

Write offs are fine, every business needs them, but you can't eat, or spend those deductions, they will lower your overall tax liability, but without sufficent income to off set them to some degree, they will over take you at some point?

Deductions or not, if you are consistantly spending more then you make, something has to give!

If you are personally going to make the rounds, without a staff, or support system to back you up, I can guarentee your gonna have problems and not turn over much revenue, hell, even Santa Clause has a staff! If it was'nt for the Elves, how would all those toys get made?

One brush with a good, old fashioned Minnesota snow storm

could put a serious kink in the operation!

[Tahoe2349]

I guess I'm with Grebe here on the facts here mnboy26>

Have you tossed this idea around to those insurers and legal team ?

Million dollar liability policies are standard and basicly minimul. I cant imagine them covering you and or employees where the point of operation is a county lake as oppossed to private party or place of business.

The "hazard" issue alone I think would have them both running before they even consider the liabilities with the business itself.

Prospective "client" fraud sticks out in my mind as easy access to penitrate any system in place. Your insurance hikes and legal hassles seem endless from my perspective.

I'm thinking you would have to be conjoined with the county and DNR for any jurisdiction to operate any type service on a lake let alone for a service charge.You would have to be pulling in "felony" charges almost daily to offset the effort here, and most are probably minors to begin with so a slap on the wrist and a $100 break and entry ? If I was a thug out in the middle of the lake do you think I or anyone else would cooperate with you ?

Remember your own safety here to man !!

I commend your idea and effort but would hate to see a guy trying to protect others become the easy victim.

[FisherDan]

One thing I thought of. What if your employee drove over or chased some kid onto thin ice and took the big plunge and died? We are talking big lawsuit. What insurance co. would cover someone driving around on a lake in a truck chasing someone on a sled.

Dan

[mnboy26]

i think i will just go fishing.....

craig

[The Grebe]

I applaud you sir, well said!

[LoveToFish]

I can't say it would or wouldn't work. Just keep in mind that the guy who started Fed-X got a C on his business paper, not because over night shipments were a bad idea, but because it was impossible to achieve such a goal. I think if you come up with the right angle it may have a shot.

[psegriz]

I think you made the wisest choice. Don't stop thinkin though the wheel was invented one day.

[huskiesplayer15]

wouldnt a citizens arrest work? Maybe i am wrong.

Best Fishes

Chris