2017 Fish House Build

[Musky hunter 82]

Those are the rivets I've used and they work great if you don't have enough material just to tap the trolley.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

22 minutes ago, YettiStyle said:

It's a good idea but personally I think you're going to have the same problem you had before.  The trolley wheels will prevent any binding you have from any lowering inconsistencies from end to end (head and feet).  The problem I envision is that you will still have trouble with tilting from side to side (sides of the bed, basically front of the shack to rear of the shack motion).  This will lead to the sides of the bearing wheels on the trolley to bind against the sides of the strut channel. 

Your problem is that you are tilting on two different axis/planes when lowering/raising the bed.  The trolley in the picture will only solve binding for one of those planes.  Easy way to visualize this is to hold out your flat.  Tilt your hand side to side (pinky to thumb), this is the motion and binding the trolley will prevent.  Now hold your hand out flat again and tilt is front to back (palm to fingertips), this is the problem motion I'm referring to and think will cause a binding problem with the sides of trolley wheels and strut channel. 

I agree, that we could still have a problem on another axis.  My hope is that by eliminating the one direction, we're able to control it on the other axis.  I could add a track system on the back wall, now that I think of it.  It wouldn't be bearing any weight, just to help control any binding.

This is the last attempt before I pay to have the Happy Jack installed  

[Hawg]

Last attempt-no way! Not for man possessed. Still love that basement window in the big new house.

[YettiStyle]

1 hour ago, Lip_Ripper Guy said:

I agree, that we could still have a problem on another axis.  My hope is that by eliminating the one direction, we're able to control it on the other axis.  I could add a track system on the back wall, now that I think of it.  It wouldn't be bearing any weight, just to help control any binding.

This is the last attempt before I pay to have the Happy Jack installed  

Here is maybe a solution for the other axis.  Proceed with the trolley's and strut channel but add a rack and pinion system to one end (head or foot of bed).  You could just add two racks to the outside of the strut channel and have a shaft with two pinions connected to the bed.  Both racks would need to be on one end, either both at the head of the bed or both at the foot of the bed.  The shaft would need to rotate so you could weld some larger pipe to the bed and run the shaft through it or use some sort of bearings.  Crude drawing below.  This would tie both sides together and help keep any tilt from happening on the other axis.

 

 

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

30 minutes ago, YettiStyle said:

Here is maybe a solution for the other axis.  Proceed with the trolley's and strut channel but add a rack and pinion system to one end (head or foot of bed).  You could just add two racks to the outside of the strut channel and have a shaft with two pinions connected to the bed.  Both racks would need to be on one end, either both at the head of the bed or both at the foot of the bed.  The shaft would need to rotate so you could weld some larger pipe to the bed and run the shaft through it or use some sort of bearings.  Crude drawing below.  This would tie both sides together and help keep any tilt from happening on the other axis.

 

 

So I'd get the gear rack like this (6', I'd cut down to 2-3')

https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Gear-L5126-Degree-Pressure/dp/B000LDIQB6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476384489&sr=8-1&keywords=boston+gear+rack

And then (2) gears like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LDDHHE/ref=pd_bxgy_328_2?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000LDDHHE&pd_rd_r=GQBY97DQKRFT58FH0CQH&pd_rd_w=S9dEa&pd_rd_wg=Ofr4n&psc=1&refRID=GQBY97DQKRFT58FH0CQH

And then build a shaft that would fit between the two racks, and hold the gears?

[rossco1418]

Have you considered using gas struts for the bed lift? I know Salem uses them in there ice cabins for the bed lift.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

24 minutes ago, rossco1418 said:

Have you considered using gas struts for the bed lift? I know Salem uses them in there ice cabins for the bed lift.

I did.  It isn't a bad idea, I just want something that has adjustable height.  Who knows, maybe that'll be the next attempt before Happy Jack!

[YettiStyle]

1 hour ago, Lip_Ripper Guy said:

So I'd get the gear rack like this (6', I'd cut down to 2-3')

https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Gear-L5126-Degree-Pressure/dp/B000LDIQB6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476384489&sr=8-1&keywords=boston+gear+rack

And then (2) gears like this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LDDHHE/ref=pd_bxgy_328_2?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000LDDHHE&pd_rd_r=GQBY97DQKRFT58FH0CQH&pd_rd_w=S9dEa&pd_rd_wg=Ofr4n&psc=1&refRID=GQBY97DQKRFT58FH0CQH

And then build a shaft that would fit between the two racks, and hold the gears?

Those should work!  All you're trying to do is prevent one side from lowering/raising faster/slower than the other side, that's what is creating your binding issue.  Since both gears are tied together by the singular shaft, they have to raise/lower at the same speed.

Depending how much work you've done to your old system and if you've already order the strut channel/trollies then you could just use 2 of these systems and get rid of trolley idea?  One system at the foot or head of the bed and another system along the back wall. 

As in the picture below, the red lines would be where you would mount the cut down gear racks and the green arrows would be where the other smaller gears would attach to the end of the shafts (blue/purple line).  I would put the racks as close to the vertical aluminum pieces just to minimize as much tilting as possible.  Looks like you might have enough room between your bedframe and the wall at the head/foot of the bed to hide the gears/rack assembly.  Along the back wall it doesn't look like you have as much room so I would put the racks as far into the corners as possible to try and hide them. 

[YettiStyle]

Depending on how fancy you want to get you could add some bearings for smoother operation.  With those small gears it looks like you're going to need a 1/2" outside diameter shaft.  Here is some bearings that might work to mount the shaft to the bed.  I would mount the shaft to the bed as close to the gears as possible to minimize any shaft bending. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GGQ3T5U/ref=pd_day0_328_14?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GGQ3T5U&pd_rd_r=9KJ0PKVWWF02B3XX7AB3&pd_rd_w=SpLtT&pd_rd_wg=iAtC1&psc=1&refRID=9KJ0PKVWWF02B3XX7AB3

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

2 hours ago, rl_sd said:

Take a look at my post from page 9... Think that you are going to have better luck with a single roller running parallel to the support want then you are a spring loaded trolley running perpendicular

I think my explanation may have caused some confusion.  The idea was actually thought up from your drawing, and I just happened to come across the strut channel.  

The strut channel will run vertically, and the trolley within that channel.  I can see that one of those pictures shows a horizontal orientation, but it will be vertical.    

[elkoholic]

LRG Hows the build comin? Finish pics, and also interested in the weight of ur shack as i'm having a 21' built now that should be done within the week!

Thanks

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

On 11/11/2016 at 5:43 AM, elkoholic said:

LRG Hows the build comin? Finish pics, and also interested in the weight of ur shack as i'm having a 21' built now that should be done within the week!

Thanks

 

It's coming along well.  I've done very little in it since the beginning of September, just putzing with a few things here and there, but mostly just drinking Busch Lights and dreaming of ice.  Now that my hunting season is mostly done and cold weather is on the way, I'll get the last few checklist items done.  

 

The big accomplishment is that the lift bed is done and works like a champ.  The strut channel & trolley was perfect.

 

Finished pics soon!

[White Rabbit]

Can't wait to see the finished pictures.

 

[slammer]

Now that the weather has cooled down have you tested that floor heat?

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

19 hours ago, slammer said:

Now that the weather has cooled down have you tested that floor heat?

 

It's been running the last two days and works perfectly.  I didn't have any doubts that it would work at these temps.  The real test will be when it's -40 and windy!

 

Final pics soon.  Still just working on tidying up a few things.  It's down to everything I didn't want to do over the last few months.       

[Lagers30]

Hey Lip Ripper, been following your feeds for years, saw the last house you built and this one. Fantastic work, love the personalized custom houses. I had a quick question, how do you fill your pressure and hot water tank for the in floor heat so it stays pressurized? Im sure its simple, just have no idea. Thanks

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

I used a self priming water pump, and a custom inlet/fill valve. Alternating between filling, and circulator pump to get the system full, and air removed. I slightly overfilled the fluid volume of the system to compress the bladder in the expansion tank. 

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

This will be a bit long winded, but by far the most frequent question I get is how to wire these.  I'll try to detail as best I can.  

 

Starting from the outside of the house I have a regular 30amp RV plug, similar to this:

 

From this plug I have a heavy duty 10/2 wire running to my converter, which is a Progressive Dynamics PD4045.  The nitty gritty details can be found with a search, but to summarize, it powers all your AC components, and converts AC to DC power, and charges any batteries.  

 

My only AC components are outlets, the heating element for the electric part of my water heater, and a future expansion for a roof mount air conditioner.  Everything else is DC, and I don't use inverters (which would be used to convert 12v battery power to AC).  My reasoning is that the inverters are generally inefficient, and I have a Yamaha generator that will run over 14 hours on a gallon of gas.  That equates to about $6 per weekend with the amount I use it.          

 

AC wires from the power panel include 10/2 to both the future air conditioner, and the water heater.  All outlets are 12/2.

 

I also have 10 gauge wire running from the panel to my (2) 6 volt GC2 (Sam's Club) golf cart batteries.  These are connected in series with a very heavy duty 0 gauge cable to make 12 volts.  

 

The DC side is a bit more complicated to explain.  I have it set up in 2 categories.  (1) would be frequently used or higher draw components powered directly by the converter, each on their own fuse in the power panel.  This includes furnace, interior lights, exterior lights, ceiling fan, hydronic pump, sink pump, water heater ignition, stereo, and hole lights.  These all have a + wire from the converter to wherever the switch is located, and then continuing on from the switch to wherever the main power wire is for each component (more on this later).        

 

Behind the converter I have a simple metal grounding bar to make all the - connections, and I have one main - wire running back to the batteries, and also grounded to the frame.

     

 

Category (2) are less frequently used, or very low power draw, or items with their own switch.  I have classified these as "always on".  This includes my two front exterior lights (so I can flip them on from the outside of the house), tv antenna, roof vents, rear bunk overhead lights, under cabinet lighting, range hood, etc.  These are all powered from the converter on a single fuse (20 amp).

 

So that brings me to the bathroom wall.  Knowing that the connections are by far the most likely failure point, I want to minimize the number of hidden connections buried by the spray foam.  Each light or fixture has its own separate wire to either the power panel, or my connection point in the wall.  This was taken before I got everything tidied up for spray foam, but you can see the plywood panel in the bathroom wall.  

 

 

 

The other side of it now looks like this:

 

 All the wires are brought down from the ceiling through the bathroom wall, with the connections made here.  You can see each has a + and - terminal bar, and then there is one other main grounding bar at the bottom, with a heavy 10 gauge - wire that runs back to the batteries and is also grounded to the frame.

 

So that's wiring in a nutshell!    

 

 

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

Version #1 of the lift bed was a marvelous failure.  Everything looked great while building and installing it.  It was probably the most precise piece I've ever built.  The trouble was multi dimensional binding, as was pointed out in an earlier post.  

 

Version #2 works well.  The strut channel and trolley works great, and doesn't allow any binding. You still want to lift or lower evenly, but it is really forgiving.

 

 

This is set up with 4 locking positions.  2 storage, and 2 sleeping.  I expect this to become the most frequently used bed in the house, rather than dropping the table down all the time. 

 

The extra head room with this in its highest position is wonderful!  It isn't a direct replacement for pushing a button on the Happi Jac, but at about $1900 less, it'll work very well.  

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

Some other small detail items before I get to the finished pics of the entire house.

 

Each bench has a built in UV jig glow light.  You never have to worry about finding your keychain light (or the dead battery they always seem to have) again!

 

The normal bench cushion back always seems to be falling down.   I had each cushion sewn with a tab, and then installed a grommet and a hook on the wall.  

 

 

On the back side of each wheel well is a rod storage compartment for 4 rods, an ice scoop, a forceps, and a few small hooks for miscellaneous stuff.

 

I mentioned the under cabinet and under bunk lighting in another post, but here it is in action.

 

And another view of my charging cabinet, with rattle reel storage.

 

That's all for now.  Finished pics soon!

Edited December 8, 2016 by Lip_Ripper Guy

[perchking]

Great work!!!

[slammer]

Quite impressive!.  Looking forward to see the rest of it.

[Hawg]

Where did you get those heavy duty hole cover with the holes in them? I just checked their site and don't see them. I might have to stop over at their office today. 

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

26 minutes ago, Hawg said:

Where did you get those heavy duty hole cover with the holes in them? I just checked their site and don't see them. I might have to stop over at their office today. 

Those are the 1st gen covers. They done stay in place, at all. Definitely not child or dog proof. I bought the new honeycomb version at the show and they seem way better. 

[Hawg]

The new ones don't stay in place very well either. I don't think you would want to put your weight on one either but they work for what they are. Now I kind of seem to remember seeing them at their shop, one the reasons they were redoing them was because enough air didn't go thru them too well.  I think a product right between these two designs would be perfect.Thanks for the reply, 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Hawg