Gym exercises you won't do

[tacklejunkie]

Mine are anything on a smith machine, lateral shoulder raises, crunches. What are the exercises that others either find useless or won't do?

[tacklejunkie]

I also add chest flys and shoulder presses on a machine

[fishersofmen]

I use very few machines except for back and triceps.

I have never been on a treadmill or elliptical.

Probably the #1 exercise I would not do is that inner thigh machine that you see the women using as they look around to make sure no one is watching them.

[tacklejunkie]

Probably the #1 exercise I would not do is that inner thigh machine that you see the women using as they look around to make sure no one is watching them.

I think it's called the Abductor machine and, yeah, I'll add that one to my list also

[delcecchi]

Is there some reason you guys don't do those exercises?

[fishersofmen]

My inner thighs are already incredibly strong......one of my strong points.

[tacklejunkie]

Is there some reason you guys don't do those exercises?

As far as any excercise on the Smith Machine, I feel akward while doing them. The rest are either personal preference or, for the sake of time, already tackled in other exercises

[TR21HP]

The Smith machine is a terrible machine and you are wise to stay off of it. It provides no stability support for the ancillary muscles, allows you to load up the machine for those same reasons and provides an unnatural movement which isn't good for the body. One can get greater benefit both from a strength aspect and health aspect going with dumbells and slow controlled movements.

[fishersofmen]

Agree its never felt natural to me.

[DrJuice1980]

Treadmill, elliptical, any machine

Treadmills train you to not use your hamstrings when you walk or run and leave you susceptible to knee injuries

Elliptical are the same

These should only be used if your too obese to do anything else

Machines? No machine is build for your specific dimensions. They will train you with compensatory actions.

Those inner thigh muscles are adductors. If they are strong you should if your ITs, TFLs, and Lateralis' are weak. If not party on.

[Sonicrunch]

I like where this thread is going.

Free weights, or go home.

[delcecchi]

Why do you say that "Treadmills train you to not use your hamstrings when you walk or run and leave you susceptible to knee injuries"?

[DrJuice1980]

Because in the real world the ground does not move underneath you, you push away from it when you walk/run/move. On a treadmill there is almost zero work the hamstrings do because of this. So what you're doing is training by your body not to use them, meaning when it comes time to, and you've last the ability to, that force a muscle is suppose to absorb is then transferred to most likely your knee and the soft tissue inside takes a beating.

[Ohboytimmy]

You use your hamstrings to bring your leg forward.....

You have to use your hamstrings to straighten your leg out..

Treadmills are not as beneficial as the streets but it sure inst gonna break your knees without an incredible amount of time. Do some squats and dead-lifts enforce your major leg muscles to strengthen and improve form.

[DrJuice1980]

You use your hamstrings to bring your leg forward.....

You have to use your hamstrings to straighten your leg out..

Treadmills are not as beneficial as the streets but it sure inst gonna break your knees without an incredible amount of time. Do some squats and dead-lifts enforce your major leg muscles to strengthen and improve form.

Do some pawbacks and see if you feel it in your hamstrings, then stand next to a treadmill and do those pawbacks with one leg on ground and one pawing back on moving treadmill.  You will notice that in the real world the ground is not moving underneath you.  Also, if you learn with repetitive movements you dont need to be on a treadmill for an "Incredible" amount of time as patterns form immediately, adaptation WILL take place over time and if its part of your workout then expect to adapt to that just like your trying to adapt to other changes.  Just do the test so you feel it for yourself.  You'll be better educated and wont have to rely on extended periods to try to make your point.

[delcecchi]

In the real world the momentum of your body moves it forward as you are walking.  So I still don't get your point that standing still and having the walking surface moving is different than moving at a uniform speed and having the walking surface stationary. 

It could be true, but I am not yet convinced. 

[DrJuice1980]

Its actually VERY simple. The ground does not move. The human species adapted to that over time. The ground has never moved, it's always been there. Still. Well moving but with the balance of gravity we don't feel it move. And I'll be darned Del if you are strong enough to "push" and move the ground away from yourself, rather you push yourself away from an immovable object. Again you as a human over time developed the means necessary to do this, proper muscle development and the nervous system designed to execute said movement. And again at no time have you EVER had the ground move underneath you, until the treadmill came around.  This rendered your hamstrings useless, so you're conditioning yourself to walk, run, jog without the basics of how you were created to walk. Because there's an environment where that's not needed.  Overtime with the repetitive use and training, your body will adapt to that just like it will adapt to anything else, because that's just how we are.  Then what will happen is because you've "de-conditioned" yourself (congrats on the extended time on the powered running belt) you'll put yourself back in the real world without proper function. Because those muscles can't do the job required to "push" away force is then transferred to an area that isn't designed to absorb it, good example would be meniscus, ligaments, tendons, muscle injury, you may "step" wrong and you'll blame the curb/ice/uneven pavement, when in reality it's your own self to blame for not being able to "turn" that muscle on at the proper time.

 

And no, you can't run on a treadmill, develop those patterns, and think you can go do some leg curls and the hamstrings will be fine. Because the leg curl isn't a walking/running/jogging pattern. 

 

Unless your life goal is to crush the treadmill and leg curl machine, you really have no business stepping foot on one, unless youre obese and its part of weight loss rehab. That's more important and you can always correct patterns and adapt back to how the human body was designed to function.

 

 

Wait, so because momentum is moving you forward you no longer require muscle function, what until you decide to slow down? Again momentum and not muscles are supporting movement? Can I please ask how you came up with that reasoning? 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by DrJuice1980

[delcecchi]

I was thinking about it from a physics standpoint and Newton's laws of motion.  We were taught that they were valid in any inertial frame of reference. 

So consider a person moving along a flat surface.  From the standpoint of physics it makes no difference to any calculation if the calculations are done using the "unmoving" ground, or the "moving" person. 

And I surmise that it applies to a treadmill as well.  I know it sounds strange.  

Have there been any kinematic scientific studies done that showed similarities or differences between running on a flat surface and on a treadmill?   

You do have to push back with your leg because otherwise the motion of the treadmill, translated through it pulling on your foot would move your whole body to the back and you would not maintain your position on the treadmill.  (Unless of course you are holding on)

(new post, will probably be merged.  arrgh)

And out of curiosity I looked and found this article...

http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/treadmill-vs-running-outside/

Running outside vs. on a treadmill

The first thing we need to examine is whether running on a treadmill is the same as running outside.

On one hand, with a treadmill, the belt is moving under you and there is no wind resistance for your body to counter, so it should be easier to run. Theoretically, you could jump up and down on a treadmill and it would record that you’re running at whatever speed the belt is moving. Outside, your legs have to propel your motion forward while pushing through the resulting wind resistance (however minor it may be).

Luckily, scientific research has proven that setting the treadmill to a 1% grade accurately reflects the energy costs and simulates outdoor running. Therefore, by setting the treadmill to a 1% grade, you can offset the lack of wind resistance and the belt moving under you to make treadmill running the same effort as running outdoors.

Corroborating research has shown that VO2 max is the same when running on a treadmill compared to outside, clearly demonstrating that running on a treadmill is as effective as running outside.

Furthermore, research reveals that bio-mechanical patterns did not change when test subjects ran on a treadmill versus when they ran outside.

Therefore, we can decisively conclude that running on a treadmill has the same effect as running outside when running at a 1% grade.

Anyway, that's where I am coming from on the issue. 

 

[DrJuice1980]

Muscles propel your legs and body, not legs propel body. What goon wrote that? At no point was I referring to any cardio vascular difference. I could sit in my chair at work and move my arms fast for a long time and eventually have that same benefit from running on or off a treadmill. Please do not try to alter the point to affect the debate. The point is muscles have specific purposes. Which you are failing to comprehend. 

Youre not not giving any consideration to how you as a human are designed to function.  

Again, in the real world you need to push yourself away from the ground in order to move, muscles are required for this task. On a treadmill, the ground is moving for you, taking away the need to use those muscles that, as a human, have been created ages ago. I'm not saying that no muscles are being used on the treadmill, that would be stupid to think, just not the ones in the same pattern that go into the way you're designed to walk/jog/run. Unless Del, you are not human and the rules of the human body don't apply to you.

Please state where you located that above information, what a joke.

[nofishfisherman]

Seems like this is a hot button issue for Juice.  You seem to be getting a little riled up.

From my own personal experience I've felt that running on a treadmill uses the same muscles as used in running on the ground but perhaps just not quite as much.

When running on flat ground your muscles are used to propel yourself forward or else you aren't moving - that's pretty obvious.

When running on a treadmill your muscles are used to propel yourself forward or else the treadmill shoots you off the back - that's also pretty obvious.

What's not so obvious is the amount of exertion needed by your muscles to accomplish equal forward propulsion on a treadmill and on flat ground.  During the few times I've used a treadmill (I hate them for all sorts of reasons) I set the incline at around 3% to increase the level of exertion on the treadmill to match that of running on flat ground.  I still doubt a treadmill even with added incline exactly matches the muscle exertion of running on flat ground but its probably close enough unless you are doing some insane amount of treadmill running.  

The key with most exercise is to vary your workout and routine in order to make sure you are getting a well rounded and balanced workout.  To much of any one thing or one way of doing something is probably not good for you.  Like they always say, everything in moderation. 

 

[DrJuice1980]

No not heated, just perplexed with your inability to understand how muscles and movement works. It's not about degree of platform, it's not about exertion of energy, it's about how the ground that you walk on everyday does not move and how you're suppose to engage specific muscles at specific times to execute that movement properly without and compensatory action. The treadmill takes the place of your hamstrings function, meaning you've patterned (trained) yourself, when you walk, jog, run, to not use them. Overtime that displacement of force will show itself like in the examples previously stated. Don't be too hardheaded to consider learning something you obviously have no clue about. 

 

Also, your own personal experiences don't outweigh the 100s of 1000s of years it took to create you as the human you are today.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by DrJuice1980

[leechlake]

that's some quality "bedside manner" I'm reading Juice?  Maybe if you were a little more civil you'd be more successful in teaching what you have knowledge in.

I hope my kids math teacher doesn't tell my kid "he has no clue" when she's trying to teach him a concept.

[DrJuice1980]

When was a point ever proven without any emotion?  My "tone" was to pound home facts. 

The environment we are in isnt your kids classroom, so the comparison means very little. 

Im sorry if you take this offensive, but I think the world has too many hall monitors.  People need to worry more about themselves and what their actions are about instead of others, you might learn something about yourself thats not too desirable. 

 

 

 

[delcecchi]

When was a point ever proven without any emotion?  My "tone" was to pound home facts. 

The environment we are in isnt your kids classroom, so the comparison means very little. 

Im sorry if you take this offensive, but I think the world has too many hall monitors.  People need to worry more about themselves and what their actions are about instead of others, you might learn something about yourself thats not too desirable. 

 

 

 

I posted that article.  It had a reference to another article in a medical type journal saying treadmill and ground are approximately equivalent.  Sorry that my disagreeing with you brings out hostility. 

Do you have any data beyond your personal opinion to bring to this discussion?  

In fact, have you personally run or walked extensively on a treadmill? 

[nofishfisherman]

Juice or do you prefer Dr, I think you are simply tone deaf to how your posts actually come across.  A little emotion is one thing but there is something to say for being self aware enough to know when you are sounding like a jerkbait to the rest of the world. 

I've done a little looking into the topic after reading your opinion and it seems there is a lot of opinions on the topic.  The popular opinion and the one that I can find the most medical evidence to support seems to be that treadmills and ground are roughly equivalent given you increase incline. I did find a couple sources that essentially say the same thing as you all though in a much nicer and clearer way. However, they didn't present any actual medical research it was just statements of opinion.  All of those sources presented it as a reason to simply mix up your workouts.  They said treadmills are good and encouraged them but simply cautioned that moderation is important.  

The most compelling piece I found was written by a Harvard Medical Graduate with a Masters in Physical Rehabilitation.  She conducted a medical study that showed no significant difference in bio-mechanics between treadmill and ground running.  I tend to believe credentialed medical experts who have conducted actual studies on the topic versus someone on a fishing forum. Maybe that makes me hard headed, so be it.

Edited December 10, 2015 by nofishfisherman