New MN Deer Advocacy Group

[Farmsfulltime]

Thank you , excellent post

[creepworm]

couldn't find it on the HSOforum but what credentials does Brooks Johnson have and also the other people on top of this?

Agreed. I would LOVE to know where he received his masters or PhD in wildlife management, biology, ecology, etc.

[hockeybc69]

Anyone can read all the DNR reports and conclude that its a big mess..... Someone with a GED or less could figure it out.

[delcecchi]

Anyone can read all the DNR reports and conclude that its a big mess..... Someone with a GED or less could figure it out.

So, since the DNR folks are clearly more educated and intelligent than that, what is your explanation as to why things are "a big mess". A conspiracy?

[DaveT]

I've been hearing from some little birds that the audit is gaining a lot of support from the politicians. Obviously more than a handful of people out there have been letting their representatives know they're not happy. I'm looking forward to our DNR finally having some accountability, because they've proven they have no ability to COUNT.

[Getanet]

couldn't find it on the HSOforum but what credentials does Brooks Johnson have and also the other people on top of this?

Maybe he or some of the folks that know him will provide more info, but here are the details that are provided as part of his nomination for MDHA president:

Personal Bio.

47 year old father of 3.

Professional Experience - Semi retired co-founder Double Bull Blinds.

Education – University of MN degree in Political Science

Professional Affiliations – MDHA, President MBI, QDMA

Hobbies – Chasing Deer, Turkeys, and Flathead Catfish

I don't know if he has an official title with MDDI.

[SmellEsox]

So, since the DNR folks are clearly more educated and intelligent than that, what is your explanation as to why things are "a big mess". A conspiracy?

I don't think it is so much a conspiracy as it is just an ecological bias against deer and therefore they manage at a much lower population density than is necessary. All you have to do is read articles in the Conservation Volunteer about how disastrous deer are to the ecosystem and you will understand where DNR stands on deer. They are worse than global warming according to ecologists. IMO, that is the main reason DNR wants low deer numbers. Other reasons include their impact on farming, public safety, etc. Because of all these reasons, they manage deer at levels that are increasingly unsatisfactory to hunters. There is no downside to managing for lower deer numbers to DNR. Hunters will still buy licenses regardless. Farmers are happy and fewer accidents will happen.

But the overriding reason IMVHO, is that they don't want the ecological impacts to forests/habitat. I think it goes against their professional ethics to manage for higher deer numbers.

[delcecchi]

So the issue is that deer hunters want lots of deer and are willing to accept more adverse side effects than the DNR does?

That seems logical and natural to me. The DNR has to try to satisfy everyone or at least balance the dissatisfaction. Hunters are only one.

So it will come down to who can exert the most pressure on the legislature.

I think I have seen this movie before.

[SmellEsox]

So the issue is that deer hunters want lots of deer and are willing to accept more adverse side effects than the DNR does?

That seems logical and natural to me. The DNR has to try to satisfy everyone or at least balance the dissatisfaction. Hunters are only one.

So it will come down to who can exert the most pressure on the legislature.

I think I have seen this movie before.

I think this is true, although I don't think the majority of disgruntled deer hunters want "lots" of deer. A reasonable increase in deer numbers would be fine for most, again, IMVHO. I also think that hunters have lost trust in DNR. Hunters are seeing far fewer deer, but DNR keeps telling them there are a million out there. Hunters deserve to be shown the data that supports DNR estimates of deer numbers. That might cost more money for the DNR to spend a little more time and effort studying the most important game animal in MN.

[ClownColor]

I must laugh. Poeple are the problem, not the DNR.

I go to one thread and every one is [PoorWordUsage] the DNR dropped the walleye limit on Red to 2 fish. On another thread, lets go to Mille Lacs, everyone is [PoorWordUsage] we out fished the lake. 5-10 years ago everyone was happy we could bag multiple deer...and YES-A LOT of people were. Now much of you are complaining there are no deer?

The problem is, people can't think.

I'm not going to blame the DNR cause they have more to answer to then just hunters...and truth be told we are idiots. Let's say we do get deer numbers which would satisfy the masses. Then we'd pizz and moan they are of no size. Next we'd be blaming the dnr to many small bucks are breeding the does and are herds are ruined. OR-we have so many deer CWD is running rampent and the DNR is to blame for allowing so many deer.

We, as outdoors people, will never be happy and will always complain.

People need to get it thru their thick heads that some years will be good, and other years you may "actualy have to put in some time".

Put on your big girl panties. the worlds not perfect!

[Farmsfulltime]

The birdies are all coming from the spam activities on another site.

[SmellEsox]

I must laugh. Poeple are the problem, not the DNR.

I go to one thread and every one is [PoorWordUsage] the DNR dropped the walleye limit on Red to 2 fish. On another thread, lets go to Mille Lacs, everyone is [PoorWordUsage] we out fished the lake. 5-10 years ago everyone was happy we could bag multiple deer...and YES-A LOT of people were. Now much of you are complaining there are no deer?

The problem is, people can't think.

I'm not going to blame the DNR cause they have more to answer to then just hunters...and truth be told we are idiots. Let's say we do get deer numbers which would satisfy the masses. Then we'd pizz and moan they are of no size. Next we'd be blaming the dnr to many small bucks are breeding the does and are herds are ruined. OR-we have so many deer CWD is running rampent and the DNR is to blame for allowing so many deer.

We, as outdoors people, will never be happy and will always complain.

People need to get it thru their thick heads that some years will be good, and other years you may "actualy have to put in some time".

Put on your big girl panties. the worlds not perfect!

It's cool you can be so chill about it and let things just be what they'll be. But IMO the way we were going, we would alternate between crappy and crappier hunting seasons. I'm not willing to sit and be laid back about it.

[O.T.C.]

We'd have more deer in places if CRP didn't turn into row crops that are chisel plowed just before the deer really need it for the winter/spring. The deer don't even like walking on that stuff when frozen, shrinking the places they can roam, increasing problems for the deer from dogs, coyotes and now timberwolves. 2007 was a perfect storm, 5 tags, zone 2 coming about in old zone 4 and here come the timberwolves. Someone on here disputed me years back that zone 2 now won't impact this hunting or deer at all etc. well has it gotten better or worse ? Then you can go skim more muzzleloading. All the while more CRP is coming out of zone 4, shelter belts gone, slough holes being filled in, every square inch is farmed even if it shouldn't be,and now it's up to the dnr to put more deer on those grounds, good luck. The perfect storm for zone 4 anyway. Their blame in this is (the dnr and lou) is they had a solid recipe, zone 4 and to "simplify" things just ah lets just zone 2 it. Hunters rejoiced, 9 straight days alright ! Now where'd the deer go ? Have said it many times forget the DNR, you and your neighbors get together and manage what you guys have realizing there still is only a certain number of deer you can carry based on the habitat you guys all share. Let's get old zone 4 back splitting hunters. More deer will survive season because if I go weekend 1 and get an 8 point buck, then the other 25 deer living on my land have a place to survive the season, unless they wander off, only to spread out and help fill the void on peoples lands that don't seem to carry many the next Summer and that cycle continued for many years re-stocking everyones areas for example, now all the land and fields are hunted opening day and beyond. There is no breather, the rut is quite nocturnal, except for the week leading up to rifle season and more habitat is being destroyed or tabled to be destroyed as I type this. Everybody thinks their 40 should have oodles of deer on it, well it did one year, so why can't it most years. Do what you and your neighbors can habitat wise, forget food plots, most don't leave a winters supply anyway or in spring when things can get real dire, you better get or have habitat or you won't have much anyway. Why did deer numbers soar in old zone 4 prior to going zone 2, obvious isn't it. Even after the blizzards of 1996-1997 etc it didn't take long and we were crawling with deer again, lets hope for the others that want that again that it comes back as quick as it did back then.

[delcecchi]

Huh? Paragraphs with topic sentences are your friend if you are trying to communicate.

[DaveT]

Lay off, Del. OTC has been here a long time but I forget what his old moniker was and don't know why he changed it. This is how he writes and you have to choose between two options.

1. Don't read it.

2. Read it slowly and be satisfied if you get the general feel of what he's trying to communicate.

OTC wishes that farmers weren't pulling their land out of CRP and putting it back into row crops. He also feels that the practice of plowing harvested fields in the fall makes it more difficult for the deer to find food during the winter.

OTC thinks that the old two season zone 4 system enabled the deer to find refuge in areas that weren't being hunted and therefore could survive through the hunting season.

OTC hopes that the deer numbers will rebound like they did after 97 but the loss of habitat due to farming practices concerns him.

And something about wolves.

[delcecchi]

OK, thanks. The stream of consciousness thing threw me.

[ClownColor]

Lay off, Del. OTC has been here a long time but I forget what his old moniker was and don't know why he changed it. This is how he writes and you have to choose between two options.

1. Don't read it.

2. Read it slowly and be satisfied if you get the general feel of what he's trying to communicate.

OTC wishes that farmers weren't pulling their land out of CRP and putting it back into row crops. He also feels that the practice of plowing harvested fields in the fall makes it more difficult for the deer to find food during the winter.

OTC thinks that the old two season zone 4 system enabled the deer to find refuge in areas that weren't being hunted and therefore could survive through the hunting season.

OTC hopes that the deer numbers will rebound like they did after 97 but the loss of habitat due to farming practices concerns him.

And something about wolves.

Are you for hire?

[smsmith]

I must laugh. Poeple are the problem, not the DNR.

I go to one thread and every one is [PoorWordUsage] the DNR dropped the walleye limit on Red to 2 fish. On another thread, lets go to Mille Lacs, everyone is [PoorWordUsage] we out fished the lake. 5-10 years ago everyone was happy we could bag multiple deer...and YES-A LOT of people were. Now much of you are complaining there are no deer?

The problem is, people can't think.

I'm not going to blame the DNR cause they have more to answer to then just hunters...and truth be told we are idiots. Let's say we do get deer numbers which would satisfy the masses. Then we'd pizz and moan they are of no size. Next we'd be blaming the dnr to many small bucks are breeding the does and are herds are ruined. OR-we have so many deer CWD is running rampent and the DNR is to blame for allowing so many deer.

We, as outdoors people, will never be happy and will always complain.

People need to get it thru their thick heads that some years will be good, and other years you may "actualy have to put in some time".

Put on your big girl panties. the worlds not perfect!

There's a lot of truths in what you wrote here CC.

[delcecchi]

And you forgot about the hunt being in the fall, and then comes winter which adds to the "harvest", but they don't know what that harvest will be until spring, and by then the damage is done.

[smsmith]

And you forgot about the hunt being in the fall, and then comes winter which adds to the "harvest", but they don't know what that harvest will be until spring, and by then the damage is done.

Nice try at piling on...but your attempt is weak. We've covered this before. Winter of '12-'13 was long...and your DNR responded with MORE liberal antlerless tags than the previous year...AFTER they knew the FACT the previous winter had impacted the herd.

While CC had some valid points...I don't agree with 100% of what he posted. However, unlike yourself and a few others here...he took the time to actually post something besides the typical DNR apologist rhetoric..while you and plenty of others just post some regurgitated B.S. you read in ODN or elsewhere.

[DaveT]

Are you for hire?

For almost anything, yes.

[delcecchi]

Nice try at piling on...but your attempt is weak. We've covered this before. Winter of '12-'13 was long...and your DNR responded with MORE liberal antlerless tags than the previous year...AFTER they knew the FACT the previous winter had impacted the herd.

While CC had some valid points...I don't agree with 100% of what he posted. However, unlike yourself and a few others here...he took the time to actually post something besides the typical DNR apologist rhetoric..while you and plenty of others just post some regurgitated B.S. you read in ODN or elsewhere.

My DNR ????!!!!! bwahahahaha. No more mine than yours.

It boggles my mind that people can come on here with a straight face and say that the DNR guys are not capable of assessing the herd size and managing it for the desired objectives, subject to the vagarities of weather and unforseen circumstances while thinking that Joe Amateur can do way better.

Joe might have different priorities than the DNR (no man may serve two masters) but that doesn't mean he has more data or a better understanding of what is going on.

It may be that the DNR is not being totally forthcoming about what they want to do and why but that doesn't mean they are incompetent as so many here seem to think.

If that makes me a DNR stooge then all I can say to that is "Nyuk nyuk nyuk"

[NWKR]

My DNR ????!!!!! bwahahahaha. No more mine than yours.

It boggles my mind that people can come on here with a straight face and say that the DNR guys are not capable of assessing the herd size and managing it for the desired objectives, subject to the vagarities of weather and unforseen circumstances while thinking that Joe Amateur can do way better.

Joe might have different priorities than the DNR (no man may serve two masters) but that doesn't mean he has more data or a better understanding of what is going on.

It may be that the DNR is not being totally forthcoming about what they want to do and why but that doesn't mean they are incompetent as so many here seem to think.

[creepworm]

So NWKR, do you believe the fly overs gave 100% accurate numbers and everything else should be thrown away and only fly over numbers should be used?

[NWKR]

So NWKR, do you believe the fly overs gave 100% accurate numbers and everything else should be thrown away and only fly over numbers should be used?

No.

So creepworm, do you believe the models gave 100% accurate numbers and everything else should be thrown away and only model numbers should be used?