Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[BuckSutherland]

As far as your pixie dust fairy tale goes, at what point are you going to stop looking at the past and start looking forward? No one is giving the DNR a free pass on what happened years ago, but it's fair to say it does not all rest completely on the shoulders of the DNR.

So far we've had tough winters, tough springs, disease, trigger happy hunters, habitat loss, and predators come into play. DNR has zero control over the weather, no control over disease, very little control over trigger happy hunters, not much if any control over people razing down every tree they can to plant more corn, and once the legislature finally allowed it the DNR opened up a wolf season.

There are lots more things they could have done THIS year! I see your blaming corn again. I am sure those of us in the Northeastern quarter of the state wouldnt blame corn at all for the lack off sightings. Also, I think you and I both know that the large majority of hunters will only shoot what the tags allow. The DNR in 100% control of them tags. 100% in control of the wolves. 100% in control of the bears. 0% in control of the weather, but I am sure a quick drive around some of the winter yards last winter would have shed some light onto how bad it was. I remember seeing my area and thinking, "there is no way they will allow any doe permits here next year." But they did, and for everything around me. Even though my area nudged up against the 180 WSI.

Why use past experience, and not just move on?? Because I think the F'd it up big time for this year and others, and its time to start holding some of these people accountable and get a look at how they are accumulating (or manipulating) their data.

[wally243]

This is too funny!!!!!!! Erik keep trying to defend them. Give a reason that we didn't know 10 years ago. Give me a reason anyone needs to shoot 4 does and a buck????? Give me anything they have done better than my 4 year old could have done for FREE??

[BuckSutherland]

Like I said just cause we can, doesnt me we should. I'm forunate enough to have a piece of property that i have had access to for 7 years. Its 220 acres. I have a great relationship with land owner and basically have total control over it. Just because I'm allowed to shoot as many does as possible with the tags handed out-following the rules, doesnt mean I'm going to. We as people including the DNR are not perfect, but to keep saying we are just following the rules and blame the DNR for it all is ridculious. If i go out and shoot a buck with my bow, one with the gun and my kid shoot one with a gun, along with endless doe permits what would the land look like next year. Stop blaming and start helping control it. Who really needs 4-5 deer in their freezer anyways. How much do you end up givng away or throwing out every year.

If its not OK, then WHY ON EARTH ARE THEY SELLING THE PERMITS?!?!?

And I have gone two years without venison if you would like to know. Not that I havent had a chance or three, but I dont want to add to the situation. Would have had to been a special circumstance for me to harvest an animal.

[PurpleFloyd]

Liberals......

[jay83196]

Really? Do you drive 60 if the speed limit is 70? Do you think most people care or think that way! "Hey I'm not going to shoot"....to save and protect what's best for hunting...I doubt it! Most people (average hunter) IMO thinks hey if I don't shoot this deer somebody else will OR I wont see anything else or I payed for these bonus tags im going to fill them or most of all....I'm FOLLOWING THE RULES if it was hurting anything the rules would be different. I'm not saying I do or you do this but most of us on here are a small measures of the hunting community. I'm saying many hunters do think that way and nomatter what is done if the rules are 5 deer they may shoot 3 or 4 or 5 deer and nothing you or I say or do can change it. Clearly this is the thought process or many areas would not be suffering like this. It's up to the dnr to have a smart balance in place, if people are going to rape and pillage hunting make them break the law to do it! It's common sense, can't believe you don't get it!

[Abndoc]

Really? Do you drive 60 if the speed limit is 70?

Do you drive 70 mph in a blinding snow storm because the rules say you can. Thats exactly what is wrong our whole country, nobody takes any responsibility. I'm going to do whatever i want because its in the rules, then when it turns bad i'm going to blame someone else. Learn some to have some discipline. I'm fat, i eat 7 big macs a day, i'm going to sue mcdonalds because nobody told me to stop.

[jay83196]

No Sir, but I'm not the moron in the ditch driving too fast, to my point it's not breaking the law either not to mention at the start when they shoulda changed the regulations or when put in place there was no blizzard,the blizzard (problem) started after multiple years of intensive harvest! Ofyen the problem isnt obvious until it's too late. And I'm not the guy with 4 or 5 deer in my freezer either! Again like what was just said and has been said over and over if it's not ok to take 5 why have it in place to take 5 deer! They messed up stop making excuses for them....they are paid to know these things and make the decisions, they messed up.... you on the DNR payroll or what!

[Farmsfulltime]

Searched one year ago and this is too funny same group same complaining almost word for word , probably be the same next year and the year after . ground hog day all over again

[Eric Wettschreck]

This is too funny!!!!!!! Erik keep trying to defend them. Give a reason that we didn't know 10 years ago. Give me a reason anyone needs to shoot 4 does and a buck????? Give me anything they have done better than my 4 year old could have done for FREE??

I'm curious why you guys think I'm defending them. I have never said the DNR is blameless. Actually I said they made mistakes in the past. Learn from them and move on. I can't give you a reason they didn't act 10 years ago or why someone should tag 5 deer in a season because there isn't one.

And Buck, I"m not blaming corn. We both know, however, it's a tooth in the gear.

[LandDr]

Cutting down trees for the sake of the prairie chicken while hurting the pheasant and deer population that brings in more money to the local economy.

Planting nothing but high end prairies on WMAs with no regard to development of thermal cover and food sources to get more deer and pheasants through the winter that bring in more money into the local economy.

Grazing WMAs for the sake of "prairie management" with no regard to getting resident wildlife through the winter that contribute to our local economies.

Wolves...

Elk...(Landowners can't establish food plots for the deer they want to manage for and why they invested into buying the land in the first place)

DNR needs to be held accountable rather than it being run by special interest groups.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

And Buck, I"m not blaming corn. We both know, however, it's a tooth in the gear.

Corn has been a tooth in the gear for decades. Corn is now an excuse thats widely used and accepted by people.

Somehow corn didnt cause low harvests when we were consistently over 200k harvest annually. Harvests were higher because we had more deer.

Wind, rain and corn are nothing but excuses now. If there was adequate deer, managed properly, we should just have reasonable rises and falls in harvest levels. Not complete collapses in harvest numbers.

[LandDr]

I understand this is a deer thread, but regarding accountability...

Just had someone in saying the DNR and DU are scheduled to drain Pelican Lake new St. Micheal which he stated is an excellent pan fish lake with some good walleyes...no rough fish except for a few bullheads...land locked so rough fish can't get into it. He expressed that this is a great lake that keeps bait shops busy, etc.

I love duck hunting...but if it is a good fishing lake and contributes to the local economy, leave it alone! Appears on the surface to be more special interest projects without consideration of the local economy and what the majority of the people using the resource actually want.

[laker1]

I know a big group who shot 18 deer for 18 people a few years back,next year they got zero. Its their own fault,too big a group for too small of area.

I think it has become the blame game,instead of the solution,which might just happen with present regs and two mild winters.

Hunters have always had a excuse.

[Getanet]

Perfect example of why being a DNR employee is a thankless task. One guy has a conversation with one guy, and suddenly they are an expert on what the DNR should or shouldn't be doing regarding a situation they weren't even aware of 5 minutes previous.

[LandDr]

When someone submits a post...why do they often get attacked? Getanet...are you just in attack mode? It's just conversation and nothing in my post was geared towards you...just conversation.

I simply stated "on the surface" this is what it looks like...to see if anyone else knows anything about this, etc. I did a quick internet search and did find some other conversations about it...not that everything is correct on the internet LOL...but if this is the case, maybe it deserves some sunlight and questions asked. Just many other apparent issues need some sunlight and questions asked. Fair enough?

[jay83196]

Who's job isn't thankless! Do a bad job (make mistake) your gona get critisized or called out....consider them lucky, if many of us did our jobs like that costing our company loss of $ (instead of deer) how many of us would get fired! It's called life what do you want , pat on the back for doing poor to fair job at best!

[Getanet]

The drainage of Pelican Lake is hardly a situation that hasn't been exposed to sunlight. It is no doubt controversial, but it has been in the public spotlight for a number of years now and there has been many articles written about it and opportunities for public input and debate.

Here are some articles if you really want to learn about this, and how the DNR is being pretty accountable for how they are approaching the issue:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/246080461.html

http://www.twincities.com/ci_21655319/pelican-lake-drawdown-gets-boost-legacy-amendment-funds

[NDSUbison_z7]

This post isn't meant to be a complete defense of the DNR, because there is definitely things they could have done better. (i.e. keeping too many areas as intensive harvest for too long to name one).

However I think there is a lack of acknowledgement from deer hunters in that the requests given to the DNR throughout the years have changed regulations and are partially responsible for the problem we have today. The regulations have been moving towards more opportunity for hunters, whether in # of tags or # of days to hunt. As those things happen, harvest % for a typical hunter goes up and everybody is happy. Now you throw in nature (weather, wolves, etc) taking a larger chunk from the population for a few years and you have an issue. Has the DNR been late to act; sure that may be true. But in the end, the only answer is restricting the % of success for hunters as a whole. Since no one is in favor of fewer days in the woods or no license at all; bag limits/lottery/bucks only is the only way to do it. Fewer hunting days or less hunters would be far more effective of a way to manage the population, but that would mess with the social impacts of hunting that very few are willing to give up.

Its just very easy to blame the DNR and not realize that we have caused part of the problem and need to be willing to sacrifice something to make things better...

[hockeybc69]

I 100% support any idea that restricts harvest. Whether its shorter seasons, cant hunt all the seasons, restricted tag availability.... Awesome ideas.

But the fact still remains that until the DNR increases density targets, none of it will matter. If they want low densities, then it will never change for anyone. The DNR holds the cards. Period.

Trigger restraint is all grand to sit and preach, but it will never gain widespread support and the killing will ultimately continue. Our trusted advisor(DNR) has the power to improve things.

[jay83196]

Hockeybc69 I agree except closing season the current restrictions should be enough in most areas. I agree 100% well said!

[LandDr]

That's interesting...thanks for the links and info.

It still looks like the people using the resource want it as a fishery. A fishery is providing the biggest economic benefit. So why not leave it as a fishery?

Looks like DNR special interests and personal agendas...just like what you see with deer and pheasant management across the state.

I might agree with the comments regarding if you don't do a good job or make mistakes, you get fired. There are too many special interests and personal agendas. Just one very example is grazing WMAs for the sake of prairie management...good luck to any pheasants or deer that are out on those units...snow ball in h*ll would have a better chance.

[BuckSutherland]

And Buck, I"m not blaming corn. We both know, however, it's a tooth in the gear.

[Getanet]

It still looks like the people using the resource want it as a fishery.

[LandDr]

Getanet...I do appreciate your links and information, but I have heard enough justification from the DNR and other interest groups on why they do stuff. Just as the grazing of WMAs...I have heard all of their justification...but it still stands that a pheasant or deer probably will not make it the winter on those units that were grazed. I spoke with Fred (Bengston) regarding a 320+- acre tract in Stearns county that was slated for high diversity prairie restoration and asked if we could design in some thermal cover and food sources. His comment to me via email was that there was no need for that on this unit...therefore DOA. All the govt and non-profits are getting together to talk about why there aren't more pheasants...but no consideration of developing thermal cover and food to get more hens through the winter.

Accountability and performance...it's not there. If I designed a 320 acre property for a landowner which resulted in 25 pheasants and 10 deer on it, I would be fired.

[SmellEsox]

I know it's off the subject, but Pelican Lake should be a wildlife lake. We have bazillions of walleye and panfish lakes in the state. Good waterfowl lakes are becoming more and more rare.