Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[InTheNorthwoods]

The sad thing is many people do not even realize that doing the above are illegal. They are no better than someone shooting a buck at night with a spotlight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure almost everyone knows these things are not legal - they just don't think there is a risk of getting caught, and based on it being legal to party hunt, people assume there is an implied acceptance of these practices.

Just today I had a person tell me that they shot 4 deer in a one deer area in one day. One for his wife, two for a buddy, and he tagged one. It sounded to me like he was in the field alone. I didn't know this person well, yet he was comfortable telling me this as if it was just the way everyone does things. (*edit - I have no proof this is true, or if it was bragging, so I really can't do anything about it).

In my opinion, if you take away the ability of shooting a deer legally for another person (cross tagging), I think you will see a shift in mentality regarding these currently illegal practices that are (again, in my opinion) believed to be acceptable by many people because "what difference does it really make who's name is on the tag, or if they were here - it is legal to shoot a deer for someone else". I think people believe that when they buy a tag, they are buying the right to a deer, and not that the tag is just an opportunity for that person to hunt a deer.

[leechlake]

what happened to the old metal tags that once you locked them they didn't come off. Then we had the sticky tags that once you clasped them closed you couldn't re-open. Now you tie a sting through it and tie it on and you can move it from deer to deer if you chose to. I know they went to that because the machines at the store didn't use that expensive sticky tape.

My point is that some of these systems we've moved to have made it easier for scofflaws to shoot more deer. For invasive species we started with stickers, then inspections, and now you have to take an on line class. With the deer hunting we're getting so lax on some aspects of keeping things on the up and up. It doesn't square with logic unless we want more dead deer and less of a population.

[smsmith]

Oh, I'm pretty sure almost everyone knows these things are not legal - they just don't think there is a risk of getting caught, and based on it being legal to party hunt, people assume there is an implied acceptance of these practices.

Just today I had a person tell me that they shot 4 deer in a one deer area in one day. One for his wife, two for a buddy, and he tagged one. He was in the field alone. I didn't know this person well, yet he was comfortable telling me this as if it was just the way everyone does things.

In my opinion, if you take away the ability of shooting a deer legally for another person (cross tagging), I think you will see a shift in mentality regarding these currently illegal practices that are (again, in my opinion) believed to be acceptable by many people because "what difference does it really make who's name is on the tag, or if they were here - it is legal to shoot a deer for someone else". I think people believe that when they buy a tag, they are buying the right to a deer, and not that the tag is just an opportunity for that person to hunt a deer.

I'd agree that most folks probably know those things are illegal, but there are a great many who do not.

On your other points I agree completely

[Borch]

It's safe to say that many people are frustrated over the current situation and how it's been managed, (or not managed depending on your viewpoint). There are a lot of different goals when we go into the woods based on why we hunt. I've read through a few pages and I disagree with some, agree with some and some are just plain crazy talk based on my "opinion". But to each their own.

I hunted in zone 156 and the first weekend was hunting in the woods for 21 hours that weekend and didn't see a single deer. There was buck sign everywhere but no movement and very few shots fired nearby. I was wondering if there were even a single deer around the area anymore. Last weekend I only hunted Sunday morning and I saw 5 deer in less than 2 hours plus a lot of tracks int he snow. I shot a young buck for the freezer which I'm fine with as I like eating venison and have plenty of bigger horns in a box in my shed already.

We have a hard enough time getting youth and family into the woods as it is. I'd hate to make it a tougher job by having young or new hunters having to sit out for one or more years at a time due to not getting drawn. By the same token kids and new hunters like to see some deer when they are out in the woods. Been through that with turkey hunting and needing to go out of state to get our spring hunting fix.

[smsmith]

It doesn't square with logic unless we want more dead deer and less of a population.

You have nailed it right there IMHO...just that I'd replace "we" with the MN DNR.

[mntatonka]

1. One of the guys suggested my son come with us so "we" would have another doe tag.

[Don Brinkman]

Yes I would be for a drawing. Maybe some years everyone would get drawn in years higher deer number years when deer numbers are down some guys would be out of luck. I think before something like that is done though that cross tagging aka "party" hunting should not be allowed anymore. You fill your tag and you're done.

The only problem with this, is they would sell 5000000 lottery tickets.

[InTheNorthwoods]

You have a better system in mind to stop this minority?

[jbell1981]

mntatonka:

#1 is illegal and you are proving others points by not knowing this.

#5 is not poaching. Perfectly legal to party hunt as long as the others in the party are hunting with you and not sitting at home.

[leechlake]

Better way? Good question and I guess my answer which I'm going to keep simple since I don't want to spend an hour typing here. It seems that in the past 5 years or so there has been a huge emphasis on catching people that bait deer. I don't know the exact penalty but it's pretty harsh. Every time I hear the local radio guy interview a Game Warden (old school for CO) they always talk about baiting. They fly around and look for corn which is easy to spot A guy in our area we hunt got busted and it wasn't pretty.

While I'm sure the penalties for breaking any illegal tagging is harsh I've literally never heard of anyone getting caught that lived in the area I hunt and I've hunted there 35 years or so.

So my answer is to put an emphasis on the illegal tagging just like they do on baiting. Also I'd wager illegal tagging is a bigger problem than baiting deer in regards to number of deer killed. I'd guess the baiting emphasis is due to the CWD panic that at least in MN hasn't come to fruition.

[mntatonka]

mntatonka:

#1 is illegal and you are proving others points by not knowing this.

#5 is not poaching. Perfectly legal to party hunt as long as the others in the party are hunting with you and not sitting at home.

whoops, got carried away with copy/paste on #5, sorry about that (edited my previous post to fix that). And like I said on #1, I wasn't sure if it was legal or not since I hadn't looked it up (or had a good reason to)

edit 2: after looking it up, #1 is ONLY illegal in a lottery area. Also illegal in a bucks only area, since no one (including youth) is allowed to take a doe there.

[NWKR]

Why did you leave #3 off the list?

Most hunters are ethical and follow the law. Folks that knowingly break the law will likely continue to do so, not matter what regulations are put in place.

From what I hear from some hunters many are willfully ignorant about the laws related to party hunting. They like to believe doing the items I singled out somehow falls under party hunting. They are more likely to know that not registering a deer and shooting another using the same tag is illegal.

I believe many hunters are like many other people and are ethical only when it works for them. They will take advantage of the laws if they think they won't get caught.

How is anyone going to prove I wasn't party hunting with billy bob if he stayed in to waste his time watching the vikes and doesn't want to hunt any more? Might as well use his tag if something I shoot something and I can keep hunting.

Not what I do but just an example of how the average hunter thinks.

I hear multiple people talk about party hunting in a way that is illegal every year. No hard evidence, just what I and evidently others on the forum hear as well.

[PropsterII]

I think any Iowa hunters should come hunt in Minnesota before complaining too much

I actually loved hunting Iowa, when I could afford it. Well balanced age structure and buck doe ratio, deer herd healthy, rut happened like it was supposed to due to the age thing and buck/doe ratio. If you put in a decent amount of effort and time, you could experience what hunting can truly be like, and have multiple sightings and the ability to be somewhat selective on what you shot. Miss those days. I don't hunt Minnesota anymore, and don't gun hunt anymore. But listening to a few of you I feel really bad for some of you to hear that you are spending hours upon hours and days and days in the stand and not even seeing a deer, or maybe seeing one. Even back in the years when our population was nowhere near what it eventually became, we saw deer. We were self imposed bucks only, and even though we didn't see near the deer I do now while bowhunting, it was sure a lot better than what I'm hearing from many of you. A couple have mentioned it and I agree wholeheartedly, it's hard to recruit and maintain young people into hunting when it's that tough. Let's hope the DNR at least still maintains that as one of its goals.

[icehole10]

what happened to the old metal tags that once you locked them they didn't come off. Then we had the sticky tags that once you clasped them closed you couldn't re-open. Now you tie a sting through it and tie it on and you can move it from deer to deer if you chose to. I know they went to that because the machines at the store didn't use that expensive sticky tape.

My point is that some of these systems we've moved to have made it easier for scofflaws to shoot more deer. For invasive species we started with stickers, then inspections, and now you have to take an on line class. With the deer hunting we're getting so lax on some aspects of keeping things on the up and up. It doesn't square with logic unless we want more dead deer and less of a population.

This has been one of my biggest b$tches for a few years. The sad reality is there are to many people who shoot a deer with their bow, tag it, take it home and cut it up, and then don't register it. Now there firearm tag is good, or so they feel, and they do it all over again. I don't even like the current tag. I feel they should only give you one actual tag a year, and the old sticky tags would be the best option. You can buy a license for each season, but why do you get a tag with each license you buy when you can only legally tag one deer(in most circumstances). It seems to me they are just making it to easy for those that will take advantage of it. I should state that im not picking on bow hunters, just using it as an example. it can just as easily be a firearm hunters or muzzle loaders. hopefully I don't offend anyone.

[Getanet]

But listening to a few of you I feel really bad for some of you to hear that you are spending hours upon hours and days and days in the stand and not even seeing a deer, or maybe seeing one.

You know how fishermen tend to exaggerate the truth about how big a fish was? Well, same applies to many when it comes to "how bad" their hunting was.

[icehole10]

You know how fishermen tend to exaggerate the truth about how big a fish was? Well, same applies to many when it comes to "how bad" their hunting was.

I saw three deer this year while in the stand, and I was pleased with that. I will admit though, I didn't put in as much time as years past.

[smsmith]

You know how fishermen tend to exaggerate the truth about how big a fish was? Well, same applies to many when it comes to "how bad" their hunting was.

That's pretty presumptuous on your part, not to mention paternalistic. Just because you may not be able to relate to the truly carp deer hunting that exists in many areas of MN doesn't mean the folks who do report such experiences are "exaggerating the truth"

[Getanet]

Ok then, let me give you a fine example. There is a member of this site who often complains about how horrible the deer hunting in his area is. To protect his identity I will simply refer to him as smsmithers. He stated that unless he sees the only buck he has has his mind set on he won't pull the trigger. That's fine, but there are plenty others who would have been content to shoot a lesser buck or doe and called the season a success.

I can sympathize with guys who saw zero deer. I can respect guys who passed multiple deer in hopes for "the one," but I won't shed too many tears for them.

And by parternalist I would hope you'll also include folks who want to ban party hunting, institute a lottery or APR or anything else they can dream up.

[smsmith]

Ok then, let me give you a fine example. There is a member of this site who often complains about how horrible the deer hunting in his area is. To protect his identity I will simply refer to him as smsmithers. He stated that unless he sees the only buck he has has his mind set on he won't pull the trigger. That's fine, but there are plenty others who would have been content to shoot a lesser buck or doe and called the season a success.

I can sympathize with guys who saw zero deer. I can respect guys who passed multiple deer in hopes for "the one," but I won't shed too many tears for them.

And by parternalist I would hope you'll also include folks who want to ban party hunting, institute a lottery or APR or anything else they can dream up.

I was not referring to myself when I pointed out that some people's reports of poor hunting were being dismissed as inaccurate...by you.

I too can sympathize with those guys who see zero, or very few deer. Especially those guys who are hunting public land who have zero control over what is harvested or how well the land is managed for deer.

You have a problem with me on a personal basis...that's fine. Let's not allow that to cloud the fact that deer hunting in MN is pretty crappy for quite a few hunters.

[Getanet]

I don't have a personal problem with you per se, but I do find it interesting that I hunt public land in central mn and don't think the hunting is so bad, and you don't seem to hunt publicland but think it's completely void of deer.

[smsmith]

I don't have a personal problem with you per se, but I do find it interesting that I hunt public land in central mn and don't think the hunting is so bad, and you don't seem to hunt publicland but think it's completely void of deer.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't believe I've ever stated that anywhere in MN is "completely devoid of deer". I have stated that hunting in central MN, especially on public lands and private lands where the owners don't have the time or ability to manipulate the habitat is far from what it could (and should) be if we had better deer management.

[PurpleFloyd]

So if we have 500k hunters in the state and we need to have the herd at a point where every hunter has an opportunity to pass on multiple inferior bucks and only take the one that he feels is worthy? Just how many deer will it take in the state to get to that point? It seems like the number would need to be pretty high considering party hunting, doing drives and cross tagging need to be taken off the table so these deer have to actually walk within range of every stationary hunter in the state.

[smsmith]

I think we're closer to 400K this year P.F., but that doesn't really matter. Why does every hunter need the opportunity to pass on what you term "inferior" bucks? I've never suggested that what I choose to harvest is what everybody should choose to harvest.

If you're going to lead the charge to end party hunting, doing drives and cross tagging, have at it. I'd guess the first and last are on the DNR's list of things to get done in the next 5 years or so, you can be the front man.

[PurpleFloyd]

I've never suggested that what I choose to harvest is what everybody should choose to harvest.

But shouldn't every hunter be allowed the same opportunity you are expecting no matter where they live? I am kinda coming around to that type of thinking and want to know how many deer I should demand in the back 40 in order to make sure I get a whack at a wallhanger every year.

[hockeybc69]

Where did wallhangers for all come from?

How about focus on the fact that deer hunting in MN could be much better and everyone would benefit.

I am not saying that 100% success is needed, but things are much different now.

Whats wrong with hunters getting to see a few deer?

The people that want to shoot anything get a better opp to shoot anything. The people that like to shoot bucks might get to shoot the bucks of choice. The people that want bigger bucks might get chances at more bigger bucks. Is there something wrong with that?

Oh now I see my flaw.... I said, "deer hunting in MN could be much better and everyone would benefit."

PF will then say,,,

who is everyone? Does everyone agree with you? bla bla.....

Why cant there be some happy medium? Lou Cornicelli has said a number of times that 200k-220k is the sweet spot for harvest... Well lets work to get there and stop the madness that every year we shoot less deer because of wind/rain/corn.