I wonder where the state line is?

[Getanet]

Ssmith, is there anything you do agree with the DNR on? If they told you it was cold today, would you argue with them too?

As much time as you spend critiquing everything thing they do, every model they use and every decision they make, have you ever considered applying for a job there? Whatever you do for a day job, you're obviously not as passionate about it as you are about how the deer herd is managed...

[Musky Buck]

What about the other state lines so we can add 20 more pages to this topic, ND,SD and Iowa ? We look at Wisconsin and it's ideal whitetail habitat, tons of farms spread among tons of timber, are you really surprised by their deer numbers or is it since they have a wolf population which is spreading into Illinois and the large volume of gun hunters in Wisc. how do they do it ? Look to the reasons why ND and SD don't have deer populations like Wisconsin ? Why shouldn't they, low people populations, tons of ag, so why not ? Winter and Spring can be brutal on plains deer, drifting can create travel/stress/calorie nightmares for deer in the plains. Mild back to back and deer numbers grow, brutalness and they fall. What is hard for me to figure out dialing back into MN here is in 1983 zone 4 was 3 days bucks only first weekend and a 2 day apply for an antlerless the 2nd weekend. 1984 it was 2 days first weekend apply for doe or 4 days the 2nd weekend apply for doe. The issue is this in 2013. We were a 2 deer area, area 240, no applying for a doe tag so you could take a buck/doe combo and party hunt for more, a doe/doe combo and party hunt for more, or a doe/fawn combo party hunt for more, a buck and fawn combo party hunt for more and then muzzleload/bow hunt some more. The issue is this, in 1984 there were way way way more deer around in zone 240 and we were applying for a doe permit, you had 1 metal tag in your pocket so this year with way less deer around then 1984, you can get 2 tags and a longer season, no applying necessary, that to me makes zero sense. It was tradition to drive around mid-October and count the hundreds of deer we'd see on a few back roads around some of permit area 240, I still drive that route today and I know they're more nocturnal today than then, but there's just no comparison, we'd see monster bucks and bucks of all sizes, does, fawns, the best fields just caked with deer and we're applying for a doe permit ? Today 2 deer ? What ? In 1984 at grandpa's farm there'd be 80-120 wintering deer there, today I hope there's 40 and many farms were that way then and this way now, idk. And this smaller herd(s) are still being hunted right up until next November 8th by a wolf population that didn't exist back then so I don't get that at all, change in philosophy and goals are set lower idk, how we were 2 deer last year I'll never know.

[SmellEsox]

Wolf population spreading into Illinois?! Really?! I can see one wandering there, but they ain't gonna stay there. No way!

[smsmith]

Ssmith, is there anything you do agree with the DNR on? If they told you it was cold today, would you argue with them too?

As much time as you spend critiquing everything thing they do, every model they use and every decision they make, have you ever considered applying for a job there? Whatever you do for a day job, you're obviously not as passionate about it as you are about how the deer herd is managed...

Okay. Just take what they hand you. I'll focus my efforts elsewhere. I'm semi-retired...so I can use my time as I choose. I choose to improve the deer herd in MN.

[Musky Buck]

10 4 smell esox, not packs but certainly plenty of sightings and reminders to hunters to not shoot em. google wolves in Illinois. Then don't shoot any does unless they're wounded or sick smsmith until further notice.

[Bear55]

I have had probably a half-dozen guys who are familiar with deer hunting south of Duluth comment to me after hunting up north for the first time that the does they saw were just HUGE.

That is because we can't shoot does up north for fear of whipping out what herd we have left. Lots of old mature does running around these days, they just need a little help to get the population back up. Winter hasn't been cooperating lately.

[Jameson]

...That is because we can't shoot does up north for fear of whipping out what herd we have left. Lots of old mature does running around these days, they just need a little help to get the population back up. Winter hasn't been cooperating lately.

These hunters are coming from areas with very limited doe kill also, namely the lottery areas of the state that are lottery every year, and the metro. These hunters have killed 'southern' does aged upto 8.5.

[Bear55]

Then I guess we just have big deer up here, the bucks would be large too if they got to live that long.

[Bear55]

Wolf population spreading into Illinois?! Really?! I can see one wandering there, but they ain't gonna stay there. No way!

Not sure on the exact time periods but in the past northern WI and the UP of Michigan didn't have a wolf population either, the migrated from northern MN and Canada. Eventually the wolves will get there but I have no idea how long that might take. I doubt the population will be as thick as MN but I am more than willing to share our wolves with other states.

[Xplorer]

They are there, and have been for many years. Estimates for WI range up to close to 1000 in the state now. Wolves will follow the food.

I'm lucky in that I live/hunt in one of the "21+" MN zones, but even here we have seen a reduction in numbers the past few years. I was still able to take up to 5 deer last season (I took none, spent the limited time I had trying to get my 11 yo son his first deer). I hope that the area is at least dropped down to managed or even HC for next year.

[Jameson]

Then I guess we just have big deer up here, the bucks would be large too if they got to live that long.

They sure would, but if man doesn't kill them in the fall, Ma Nature does a number on them on winters like this one. It is amazing to me that any bucks survive winter when entering it being worn down from the rut. Something the does don't really have effect them.

[SmellEsox]

I know WI and MI have wolves. I highly doubt Illinois has the habitat to support wolves.

[92python]

Ssmith, is there anything you do agree with the DNR on? If they told you it was cold today, would you argue with them too?

As much time as you spend critiquing everything thing they do, every model they use and every decision they make, have you ever considered applying for a job there? Whatever you do for a day job, you're obviously not as passionate about it as you are about how the deer herd is managed...

So cynical.....Cold got you down???

[Lunker]

20ish years ago we had severe winters and the herd dropped. Strict management and mild winters saw the herd and harvest climb to record numbers 10ish years ago. Add in years of over generous limits, a growing wolf herd, and now more severe winters the herd is going to be really suffering and has been. So now hopefully we'll have some mild winters in the future, probably with strict management and hopefully some more wolf control, and it will probably climb again. I'm no DNR apologist but it's not an exact science, and something they are trying to figure out constantly.

I hunt both states. WI has far and away better hunting on average, but the states are not equal as far as habitat, forage availability, wolf population, climate, etc. And most on this side of the border are complaining the last few years as well because of mis-management (over generous limits like MN) and of course weather and wolves. But the latter two are not as extreme as MN.

[smsmith]

I hunt both states. WI has far and away better hunting on average, but the states are not equal as far as habitat, forage availability, wolf population, climate, etc. And most on this side of the border are complaining the last few years as well because of mis-management (over generous limits like MN) and of course weather and wolves. But the latter two are not as extreme as MN.

I'd agree with that statement on an "average" scale. However, there are plenty of areas in WI that have more extreme weather and more wolves than plenty of areas in MN. Would you agree?

If you are comparing the Arrowhead to say...north central WI, then you'd be correct. If you're comparing "true central" MN to the Lake Superior snowbelt in WI...then not so much.

[LABS4ME]

Agreed! I hunt north of Danbury in Dairyland. I'd say the wolves and the weather are on the extreme end in regards to either state! At one point, the land I hunt on was noted by the WI DNR to have the largest wolf pack in the State. It showed over a 3 year span in which most of the deer were killed or run off the property. The wolves eventually left and the herd Has been rebounding. Last fall I heard two differnt packs on neighboring properties at dusk. My guess is they will again be moving in to feast on the rebounding herd...

As far as weather... it has been as cold as any area in MN and the snow is so deep, snowshoes hardly help. The deer stay yarded up in the bigger green swamps and ride it out, but they become easy pickings in there for the wolves. It's tough business being a deer in NW WI.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Lunker]

smsmith,

Absolutely you are right, but yes I was referring to the average. There are some really extreme snow/weather areas in WI, but a much larger portion of MN is "north woods" (i.e. cold, high snow totals, lacking ag food sources, wolf filled).

[laker1]

Most of Wisconsin is not Much farther north than Brainerd,you look at most years of deer winter-kill,they start north of Brainerd,a couple weeks of winter at each end of the seasons is huge as far as survival.

Comparing deer states is so much different with habitat varing so much.