Manziel Debate

[LMITOUT]

Wouldn't it be a Prototype because it's successful?

Brees and Russell Wilson fit that prototype? Just to name a few.

Nope.

Were/are they successful?

Yep.

Manziel has the wanna-be wonks stymied and it frustrates them to no end. I love it.

[DrJuice1980]

Well height a plays little bit into prototypical but by no means does it define it.

Weak.

Ps, Brees is still legit. Where you got "were" from I do not know.

[Big Dave2]

I would think breaking that "mold" would be beyond the risk of what the Vikes want, or any team in that matter with a top pick.

But yet someone is definitely going to go against YOUR advise and pick him.

[CaptainMusky]

Someone always defies logic and reason bigdave. Some are just busts. Did people think Leaf, Russell, etc were going to be flops? Maybe but someone still gave them the #1 pick. Its inevitable. Some enjoy the challenge of proving others wrong, others hit a home run and some just flat out screw the pooch. There will be plenty of these picks this year.

I'm not convinced that manziel will be a franchise qb. I'm also not convinced clowney will be the beast his measureables make it look to be.

We will see that's what makes this entertaining.

[LMITOUT]

Well height a plays little bit into prototypical but by no means does it define it.

So scratch stats off your list.

And scratch height off your list.

What do you have left?

[Juan Grande]

Most of guys who ended up being bust high draft picks had enough talent and athletic ability to make it in the league, but not the drive and the determination to be great.

Personally, I think Manziel has that drive. Yes, there will be an adjustment period and he'll take his lumps early on, but he will learn from it and work hard to improve. He's got a lot of people to prove wrong...

Jamarcus Russell was lazy and could barely keep himself in playing shape after he got his big pay day. Bryant McKinnie is the same way. Elite size and athletic ability (which barely keeps him in the league) but no drive to be tops at his position.

Peyton Manning isn't great because he's mobile or has a big arm, he's great because he works harder and prepares more than everyone else on the field.

[CaptainMusky]

I agree manziel appears to have the drive but will the drive be funneled toward the right things?

Clowney I think is definitely concern merely because of his work ethic. You cannot dispute manziels just all the distractions which those have killed many careers. Pick your poison.

[DrJuice1980]

So scratch stats off your list.

And scratch height off your list.

What do you have left?

Playing under control and not being selfish would be a pretty good start. Wouldn't you agree?

[greebs]

Think Manziel will have some success along the lines of a Vick or Flutie who makes the hilights but isn't going to carry a team to a title unless he ends up in a situation like Wilson where he's got a surrounding cast of teammates and he doesn't need to carry the team.

[BuckSutherland]

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

[Big Dave2]

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

And not a single one of them had better college stats than Johnny Football.

[BuckSutherland]

Quote:

A couple of weeks ago, we detailed how teams around the league feel that two of the top quarterback prospects, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel, could be facing a potential draft-day free fall. In following up with some of the quarterback-needy teams picking in the top 10, three of them have Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr as their second-rated quarterback behind Central Florida's Blake Bortles. The common media and fan projection is that Carr is the fourth-rated quarterback and a late first-round or early second-round pick, but at least three NFL teams aren't in agreement with the consensus opinion.

The reason that Carr is being rated second is that teams feel he is the most polished passer in the draft. Two of the teams told us that Carr is the best passer of the draft class, while Bortles presents the most athletic upside. A number of teams have varying doubts about Manziel and Bridgewater as pro prospects and are lukewarm on them as players. They feel as though a late first-round or second-round pick would be more appropriate for Manziel and Bridgewater.

One NFC team picking in the 20s told us that they expect the Minnesota Vikings to take Carr with the eighth-overall pick, unless he is selected by the Raiders at No. 5 overall.

Looks like we are trading up to take Tajh Boyd.

[Scott K]

I would be happy with Manziel, Bortles, or Carr. In that order.

[thatoneguy]

Superbowl winning QBs and where they were drafted.

SB 48: Russel Wilson; 75th

SB 47: Joe Flacco; 18th

SB 46: Eil Manning; 1st

SB 45: Aaron Rodgers; 24th

SB 44: Drew Brees; 33rd

SB 43: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 42: Eli Manning; 1st

SB 41: Peyton Manning; 1st

SB 40: Ben Rothlisberger; 11th

SB 39: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 38: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 37: Brad Johnson; 227th

SB 36: Tom Brady; 199th

SB 35: Trent Dilfer; 6th

SB 34: Kurt Warner; undrafted

SB 33: John Elway; 1st

9 of the last 15 drafted in the first round. No real point, just FYI.

7 out of 12, really, since there are repeat winners. And Brees was taken at the top of Rd 2, so effectively 2/3 of em. Yeah, one can pray that a late round flier turns into a franchise QB, but in reality that only happens once in a generation in the modern NFL. It's a QB-driven league, period

[greebs]

Problem is picking the right one...there have been a few 1st round busts and mediocres thru the years.

[BuckSutherland]

Problem is picking the right one...there have been a few 1st round busts and mediocres thru the years.

At least it wont be so bad as if we were picking 1 2 or 3. Then to draft a guy and have him bust it hurts a lot more.

[BuckSutherland]

I would be happy with Manziel, Bortles, or Carr. In that order.

You meant Bortles, Carr, Manziel.

at least its not Blunder, T-junk, McNothing

[zepman]

Bortles screams "bust" to me...just doesn't do it for me. What makes Bortles a better QB than Murray, Mettenberger, or McCarron? At least the three M's played in the SEC against the best defenses in the country week in and week out.

Johnny Football or Bridgewater I could live with in the 1st...I'd wait until round 2 or later on the rest.

I would love to see the Vikes pick up Murray in the 3rd...let him heal and learn...and draft two defensive studs in Round 1 and 2.

I still wouldn't pass on Manziel or Bridgewater if they were there at 8 though....

[Scott K]

I hate to say it but Bridgwater I think will slip into the late first round, or second round. I just dont see him amounting to more then TJack.

[Juan Grande]

If we're ranking based on college stats, it's tough to not have Carr ranked high. He had 5000 yards and 50 td passes this past season on 659 pass attempts.

He didn't play against the best teams, but neither did Bortles.

[BuckSutherland]

I would love to see the Vikes pick up Murray in the 3rd...let him heal and learn...and draft two defensive studs in Round 1 and 2.

I still wouldn't pass on Manziel or Bridgewater if they were there at 8 though....

I am kinda thinkin Murray might be there in the early fourth yet. Wouldnt it be funny if the Vikes got him. Him and Ponder could start their own reality TV show because Murray's GF is Ponder's ex.

She must have saw more in Murray than she did in Blunder and that's why she dumped him. Maybe we should be asking her for a scouting report since our guys blew it on Blunder.

I am not opposed to taking two QBs at all. We need to get rid of Blunder next year and if we have two this year we could have a nice back up and get rid of Cassel and Blunder next year.

[Scott K]

Quote:

NFL Network's Albert Breer reports Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel scored a 32 on the Wonderlic exam, while Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater scored a 20.

Blake Bortles scored 28. There is no correlation between Wonderlic scores and NFL success, and we're not even convinced they factor much into NFL teams' evaluations anymore, but people always seem to be interested in them. For some perspective, Andrew Luck scored a 37 before the 2012 draft. Geno Smith scored a 24 last year. Blaine Gabbert scored 42. Christian Ponder scored 35. Colin Kaepernick scored 37, and Ben Roethlisberger scored a 25.

[Scott K]

Lets see

Scored highest on the wonderlick- check

Plays in a big conference- Check

Passed for Huge yards against big teams- Check

Has great passer rating in a big conference- check!

Scored many passing TD's against some of the best college defenses- Check

Is a good on the field leader- Check

Has the drive to win- Check

Has many NFL scouts drooling over him- Check

Has the support of Drjuice- oops, not this one

Looks like JM checks out with all of the important things an NFL QB needs.

[greebs]

If ponder scored a 35 on that wonderlik scale whatever that is, then either that scale us useless or this draft is hurting big time for qbs.

[FISHINGURU]

Well having a nice score doesn't make up for having a noodle arm and happy feet. Blunder has always been smart but that alone doesn't cut it. We were hoping his noodle arm was because of a past injury and he'd get over his happy feet but looks like neither has happened.