Manziel Debate

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Is Quarterback The Most Important Position?

BY BOB WALTERS

Picture a kitchen without a chef. You have the flashy cutlery, the heavy pots and pans, and all the right ingredients. With nobody to use these though they about as useful as a 5 year old girl with an easy bake oven.

A team without a solid quarterback isn't much of a team in my opinion. Who is going to lead the team down the field. sure the running back can do a large part be he isn't the one who has to call out audibles and blocking assignments. The quarterback is the heart and soul of a team he makes the big decisions during the plays he can change something if the defense is set up to well or even poorly. The wide receivers cant catch the ball if the quarterback isn't good enough to get them the ball.A team needs a good quarterback to manage the game and that's all there is to it.

I would have to say in other sports the most important positions would have to be a pitcher or a goalkeeper. In baseball if the pitcher does good chances are the team has a good chance of winning, if he does bad then the team has to rely on a strong offense to win the game. In football(soccer) the keeper has to make the saves and direct the defense sometimes to make sure they keep the ball out of the goal. Im not so sure either is near as important as a quarterback but they sure are important and at least somewhat comparable.

[DrJuice1980]

Yup, and Johnny Football is riding in here callin out audibles, telling his lineman who to block, reading coverage schemes, and taking us to the promise land.... This guy wont be a 2nd stringer, he'll sizzle out real quick.

Pick up one of these Chicago QBs, draft a QB next season (more options even if we suck again) and groom him under somebody not namesd Cassel, Ponder, or Freeman or anybody on this list: http://www.vikings.com/team/coaches.html . Clean house. Stack the D, pick up an OL or 2 in the draft. Sign Incognito!

[LMITOUT]

If you're going to live in the past, that all makes complete sense. But if you want to move into the 2000's, not so much.

That's really all it boils down to.

Keep clingin', "bra".

[CaptainMusky]

I would rather the Vikings work out a trade with redskins for cousins than draft a qb with their #4 pick. Redskins won't have a first round pick since they traded that away and would be looking to get into the first round. I'm not sure I'd give the #4 pick for him but figure something out vs spending that pick on manziel.

[DrJuice1980]

No way are we dumb enough to shell out a #4 overall for Cousins. That would be the dumbest move in NFL history. I'm sorry Captain, I cant back your play on this one brother. Cousins ain't worth a 1st rd pick at all, I don't care if he rips it up the rest of the season.

To LMIT and Big Dave:

Explain why since 2000 these Super Bowl victories: Giants have 2,Ravens 2, Steelers 2 and throw in the Bucs in 03.

7/13 Super Bowls won defensively. What do you have to say for yourself now?

[LMITOUT]

Here we go again with the mythical 1-game season.

[DrJuice1980]

Are QB's a riskier pick than other positions?

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackriskmyth.php

I read down to the part where the guy called Vince Young ok, but definitely not a bust. Credibility was worthless after that. Big Dave, I tried to help you out before and I'll do it again. PLEASE READ THE WHOLE LINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!

But do keep your alliance with LMIT...

[DrJuice1980]

Here we go again with the mythical 1-game season.

You don't win the Super Bowl by having a terrible season. And would you rather make the playoffs 5 years in a row and lose in the first round or make it once in those 5 years and win it all? I'll take the title.

[Big Dave2]

I read down to the part where the guy called Vince Young ok, but definitely not a bust. Credibility was worthless after that. Big Dave, I tried to help you out before and I'll do it again. PLEASE READ THE WHOLE LINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!

But do keep your alliance with LMIT...

Boy it gets tiring having to explain EVERYTHING to you.

That article was obviously written around 2009. That year Vince Young was 8-2 in games he started with almost 2,000 yards passing and 10 TDs. I would certainly say OK would accurately have described his career so far in 2009.

The article also says that Matthew Stafford was TBA but we all know that he has been a hit. They have Alex Smith as a bust but he seems to be making a comeback and may also belong in the hit category before he's done.

[Big Dave2]

You don't win the Super Bowl by having a terrible season. And would you rather make the playoffs 5 years in a row and lose in the first round or make it once in those 5 years and win it all? I'll take the title.

What on earth does that have to do with drafting a QB in the first round? If you have a good QB, more than likely you will be able to do both.

[FISHINGURU]

There's no doubt about it the Superbowl winner defense gets after the QB and creates turnovers for their offense through out the playoffs and in the Superbowl.

Tom Brady was getting ate alive by the Giants pass rush that game, they might not of been ranked well that yr but they were beasts in the playoffs and Superbowl. That's where you actually have to watch games and not pull stats off the computer, Giants D-line was hurt all season that year and then came back together for the playoff run. Same with the Packers D they got hot, Saints D got hot, ect, ect.

If you get after the other teams QB and create turnovers you win, a little luck always helps. Luck may be the biggest factor, every year the winner of the Superbowl seems like they get all the breaks.

Don't get me wrong you also need a good QB, they all had good QB's. Even though Flacco isn't elite he was putting up monster numbers it was unreal, Big Ben always can buy time and find the open man. Eli threw one of the luckiest passes in history to set up the win, you either gotta be good or lucky lol.

[Stick in Mud]

You do realize that's, like, about half, give or take. Not sure seven thirteenths counts as statistically significant.

[DrJuice1980]

Seriously just over 50% is not significant statistical data? You got to be pulling my leg with that take.

[CaptainMusky]

Its barely better than a flip of a coin.

[DrJuice1980]

So then there is obvious validity to my statements otherwise it wouldn't even be close, there's even a slight edge in my favor.

Being told that in the 2000's defense is not as important and then proving that since 2000 7/13 Super Bowls were won with defense sure does solidify my stance.

Captain you're just salty I don't think Cousins is worth a 1st rounder.

Next please.

Rinse.

Repeat.

[CaptainMusky]

He's worth a first round pick before any of these other silly-me clowns in this draft. I don't think he would be worth our top pick but if we were to trade down late first round or early second I would use it on him in a heartbeat.

[LMITOUT]

So then there is obvious validity to my statements otherwise it wouldn't even be close, there's even a slight edge in my favor.

Being told that in the 2000's defense is not as important and then proving that since 2000 7/13 Super Bowls were won with defense sure does solidify my stance.

...and we're back to the mythical 1-game season again.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Yawn.

[DrJuice1980]

Yup mythical 1-game seasons where you don't need to win to play in that 1-game. Dude, you make zero sense. Keep telling yourself that you got me though.

[Big Dave2]

To LMIT and Big Dave:

Explain why since 2000 these Super Bowl victories: Giants have 2,Ravens 2, Steelers 2 and throw in the Bucs in 03.

7/13 Super Bowls won defensively. What do you have to say for yourself now?

Sorry, but I already explained to you how the Giants were quite poorly ranked in defense their superbowl years and the Ravens in 2012 were only ranked 12th in defense. I guess you are down to 4/13 at best.

You do realize you have to MAKE it to the superbowl in order to have a chance of winning it, right?

[Eric Wettschreck]

I guess you are down to 4/13 at best.

If yous guys are going to start tossing crazy fractions out there, at least use common tool sizes. 7/16/ 1/2, 9/16, 3/8, etc.

[CaptainMusky]

This thread is full of tools and they aren't metric or SAE.

[Big Dave2]

Don't be so hard on yourself CaptainMusky!

[CaptainMusky]

I knew that post would be a magnet for one of them.

[Rick]

For my money give us QB Derek Carr with that 4th pick. If Carr is gone at #4 I would be happy if they went with QB Bridgewater as well OVER ANY MLB at that spot.

Question for Juice and his sidekick captainmuskie...

If we're at the 4th pick....It's safe to assume DE Clowney is gone by then so which MLB ya gonna take if no one trades with us?

The more and more I look at what's out there coming up in the draft for a QB the less and less I get excited about anybody. Late 2nd or 3rd round, anything earlier than that is way too much of a stretch. If you think our answer to that position is in the draft you are mistaken.

MLB is our #1 concern, we have to make tackles.

As for my take on MLBs, I'm fine waiting for Mauti at Mike backer and Hodges at the Will spot.

[DrJuice1980]

Bring them in for a workout and I'll tell you. Haha

Since Hendersons been benched I don't see it being as big of a need but then again I'm not too confident in these guys being complete studs. Mosley shows signs of being quite the player but then he puts himself way out of position once in a while. I'd be happy taking Blair from Cinncinatti later in the draft.

If we don't trade down I don't know what I'd do with that pick. If we were to pick a Q I like Carr more than the rest as well.