APR 2013?

[B. Amish]

Quote:

Finally, will it be objectively monitored to determine success or failure? Without monitoring, there is no way to know if the restriction should be altered to improve success or possibly removed altogether if it doesn’t work or is no longer needed.

Many restrictions fail one or more of these criteria. The QDMA has supported some antler restrictions, opposed others, and taken a neutral stance on still others. In the long term, QDMA is optimistic that enough hunters will voluntarily pass young bucks that antler restrictions will become unnecessary and even cumbersome to more sophisticated management.

thanks, i re-read the whole thing and found these nuggets.

are the apr's in mn being objectively monitored? other than hunter opinion, they aren't monitoring anything are they?

so, in truth, qdma isn't supportive of mandatory apr's.

[tfran123]

Sorry it's hard for you.

[B. Amish]

ditto.

[nonteepical]

[quote name='Bear55

I can't tell if you are trolling or this is serious? How exactly do you propose state wide APR when about half the state is setup as a doe lottery. Many of those areas holding only 3-10 adult deer per square mile. I haven't shot a spike' date=' fork, or young 7-8-9-10 pointers in a decade but their needs to be some common sense. There is no one size fits all management, especially when you look at the deer numbers and habitat diversity in the 4 corners of the state.[/quote']

Absolutly serious.

Whats doe lottery have to do with it, APR targets yearling bucks not does, there's very few yearling does with antlers on their head(at least once a year someone in the country seems to shoot a doe with antlers i personally never seen one).

Low deer densities still takes 2-4 years to build the herd back up, you just as well build the herd for a balanced age structure and population during that time, it's low deer numbers anyway, and your trying to build the population so why should it be a free for all on bucks because theres "no deer"?

As far as the wolf zone I've hunted zone 1 for over 30years. Wolves target the weakest and easiest deer to kill, thats the young and the old, alot more yearling bucks are being eaten by wolves than a prime healthy 5.5 year old buck that can defend himself better than a yearling. I would like to see a 3 point side rule in zone 1. your not going to stop wolves from preying on young deer but we can help the bucks in that region by not having hunters and wolves targeting yearling bucks., IMO it would improve deer huntng in northern minnesota, i've sat dark to dark a week straight in zone 1 many years without seeing a buck and going home with tag soup. I'd rather eat my tag and see a buck, even if i can't shoot it, than see no bucks at all.

[Bear55]

Absolutly serious.

Whats doe lottery have to do with it, APR targets yearling bucks not does, there's very few yearling does with antlers on their head(at least once a year someone in the country seems to shoot a doe with antlers i personally never seen one).

So you take a lottery zone with a limited doe harvest and limit the buck harvest in an area with very few deer per square mile, why not just close the season for a couple of years or is that not enough? You have to realize that hunting isn't just about YOU and your goals. Lots of people are just out there to have a good time and if you limit what they can shoot to extremely low numbers they might just stop hunting. Then again that also might be what you want.

[Bear55]

As far as the wolf zone I've hunted zone 1 for over 30years. Wolves target the weakest and easiest deer to kill, thats the young and the old, alot more yearling bucks are being eaten by wolves than a prime healthy 5.5 year old buck that can defend himself better than a yearling.

The wolves target food, I'm sure the old and sick are easier to catch but it's not like there tons of old and sick deer running around feeding the wolf population. We have found plenty of very nice/mature bucks taken down by wolves over the years. It happens more than most people realize.

[lakevet]

Family has hunted zone one since 1890's. Wolves take what they can get. At times it is that mature buck worn out from the rut that is easy to find because he stinks so bad. Bruce Ranta, retired ontario biologist in an article in Deer and Deer hunting said he believes some wolf packs specifically target mature bucks at that time. Have found some mature bucks that got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Don't forget those wounded bucks either.

Hard to "stockpile" deer in zone 1 like you can in mild winter/agricultural/no wolves areas.

Winter is always the biggy up here.

lakevet

[tfran123]

I too hunt the north country and wolves don't discriminate, they take what they can when they can, period. Bucks can be easily taken by wolves at times, but winter is the great equalizer. But you absolutely can stockpile bucks, if the hunters cull half the young bucks then your odds as a hunter of taking a mature buck in the future are greatly diminished. Sure predators and winters take their toll but that doesn't mean we can't better manage the resource, and perhaps you aren't saying that. Either way thought I'd throw that out there.

Thanks for the input.

[Scott K]

I dont think everyone shares the same enthusiasm as you about shooting a "mature buck" to me it seems most could care less, and even a few prefer not to shoot an old 5 year old deer. Myself included. If I see a huge rack coming at me, would I shoot it? Sure, I would take pictures of it, then probably throw the rack out in the rest of the pile. I have no need to have a deer mount, to me the trophy is the full freezer at the end of the season.

[tfran123]

Sorry bud, most would love to shoot a big buck, that's reality. May not be important to you and I'm happy you are fine throwing the rack away. Pretty funny actually and a pretty telling statement. Carry on.

[PurpleFloyd]

There is a difference between someone wanting to shoot a big buck if one happens to walk by and wanting the government to mandate that we only shoot them or settle for an empty freezer.

[tfran123]

There is a difference between someone wanting to shoot a big buck if one happens to walk by and wanting the government to mandate that we only shoot them or settle for an empty freezer.

Sure, but that's not what Scott said.

[PurpleFloyd]

Well. your post was certainly loaded as well. But I suppose that is acceptable.

[TruthWalleyes]

Sorry bud, most would love to shoot a big buck, that's reality. May not be important to you and I'm happy you are fine throwing the rack away. Pretty funny actually and a pretty telling statement. Carry on.

If most would "Love" this, then why do "They" as you claim "Shoot all the yearling bucks" if they are really Yearning for a big buck.

You APR guys sure are persistant.

[Wanderer]

If most would "Love" this, then why do "They" as you claim "Shoot all the yearling bucks" if they are really Yearning for a big buck.

Because its there.

[SmellEsox]

Loving to shoot one and yearning to shoot one are two different things. They probably don't pass because they know that their chances of shooting a big one are next to nill. If it were 10-15%, they might pass. Some shoot little bucks so they can keep their man card for another year. "Yup, I got my buck again!". Others shoot them because they are worried the next guy will shoot it. Still others shoot them because they are trying to fill out their party's tags. And then there is the remote tiny few that actually would rather shoot a small buck than a big one. Most guys don't know how good it could be and they are afraid of change. Other states have shown that support for APR increases after they are applied.

[flipper]

It seems to me that the ones that are worried about their "man card" are the ones who think they have to shoot something with large horns. Others are more secure in their manhood and enjoy hunting for what it is.

[B. Amish]

It seems to me that the ones that are worried about their "man card" are the ones who think they have to shoot something with large horns. Others are more secure in their manhood and enjoy hunting for what it is.

+1

[Scott K]

+2

FYI, I have shot several big deer in my life, some with a decent rack that would have scored 160, after I shot them, their heads laid ontop of a fuel barrel for many years. Then one day I decided I would never do anything with them anyhow. So I threw them out. Since then, a picture, then the entire carcass, with the rack gets disposed of right away after cleaning them.

When you go buy a steak from the store, do you want to see how big the cows horns were before you buy the steak? How about the hamburger? If it only had 3 inch horns, would you not want to take it home and eat it?

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

[PurpleFloyd]

Why do you suppose that is?

Lack of education on cow herd health and proper cow management techniques.

[mntatonka]

+2

FYI, I have shot several big deer in my life, some with a decent rack that would have scored 160, after I shot them, their heads laid ontop of a fuel barrel for many years. Then one day I decided I would never do anything with them anyhow. So I threw them out. Since then, a picture, then the entire carcass, with the rack gets disposed of right away after cleaning them.

When you go buy a steak from the store, do you want to see how big the cows horns were before you buy the steak? How about the hamburger? If it only had 3 inch horns, would you not want to take it home and eat it?

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

The answer will be "because deer aren't a farm animal, they are a trophy animal".

[PurpleFloyd]

The answer will be "because deer aren't a farm animal, ".

They essentially are in a large number of those deer hunting shows that feature high fence hunting at it's finest and try to convince the average rube that if they just pass on a small buk that every hunt will be just like that.

[Scott K]

Lack of education on cow herd health and proper cow management techniques.

People must not be out there voicing the importance of QCM(Quality cow management), and the cow herds arent strong, because they are net being breed by high quality big horned 5 year old cows.

Deer were meant as food, not as a trophy!

[muskiemanAD]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

[Jameson]

Another question, if you had the choice at a meat market, if they marked their beef, and sorted it accordingly, 2 yr old steer, 5 yr old steer, which section do you suppose would be picked from first? I am betting 9 out of 10 would choose to take the 2 year old steer meat first. Why do you suppose that is?

What does the 2 year old steer weigh? What does the 5 year old steer weigh? If the 5 year old is a bigger animal then the people that need more beef would choose the bigger animal every time. Only the privileged could afford the good trophy meat.