APR 2013?

[MUSKY18]

Let me ask this question to all the Anti-APR people then.

When the DNR was holding its meetings in regards to the keeping the APR in place, where was everyone? Certainly from the number of posts on here stating that the majority of hunters in 3A and 3B are totally against APR, getting it reversed shouldn't have been a problem. The DNR held public meetings, and heck, if you couldn't make it to the public meetings, you could go online and fill out the survey. The masses had the ability to change the APR, however, it seems the masses stayed home and now the result isn't what they like.

I hunt for big racks, but more than that, I hunt for MATURE bucks. Chastise me all you want, but the bottom line is its my choice. You wanna shoot fawns and be happy, that's your choice and if you are happy, then great. I am teaching my son to look at deer and hopefully he will be able to tell if the doe/buck is mature. Doesn't really matter for him, as this will be his first year hunting and no matter what deer he shoots, I can't wait to see the look on his face. I don't care if he shoots a 4 inch spike, just being there with him will be the best hunting experience in my life. After he shoots his first couple of deer, then he will be held to the same standards as everyone else in my hunting party. Nothing but mature deer. Now does that make us "elitist"? I guess if that's what you want to tag me with, then go right ahead, it bothers me not.

[HandGunner]

so your saying you will let your kid shoot watever he wants then just drop the bomb on him and say hey now you can only shoot what I want you to..... what if the first deer he sees in his life he can just never pull the trigger at one? would you force him to shoot an animal? what if he just wants to shoot whatever he wants never agrees with your mature deer rule? do you want what he wants to be a happy hunter or force your own rules on him?

just saying it was a good question for me now that I have my first child on the way, a anti hunter asked me this, what if your kid just cant shoot an animal? but hey it is my kid to grow up like daddy right

[PurpleFloyd]

I hunt for big racks, but more than that, I hunt for MATURE bucks. Chastise me all you want, but the bottom line is its my choice.

Nobody is chastising anyone for shooting big deer. That is your choice and my guess is you will be hard pressed to find anyone who says you shouldn't.

Just make sure you understand that not everyone has the same goals as you and be sure to extend to them the same courtesy that you want extended to you.

As far as going to meetings, At this point if they keep it to zone 3 that is fine with me and I have no problem with that zone doing it. If they have meetings in this area I will certainly attend.

[MUSKY18]

Yes he can shoot whatever he wants until he is 16, then he shoots only mature deer. Those are the rules of hunting camp, he is aware of them and understands why it is this way. It doesn't matter if the first deer that walks in front of him is a doe fawn or 180 inch 12 pointer. It is his choice as to shoot it if he wants. Once he hits 16, then he falls into the "mature deer rule" just like the rest of us "elders" at deer camp. This has been the way of deer camp since I started going in 1996 when I got back from the service. Every kid that starts coming to camp follows the same rules and we have never had a problem with that.

Purple......I completely understand that not everyone has the same goals as me. I'm fine with that too. As I stated above, our camp has the rules that you can shoot whatever you'd like until you are 16, then you follow the mature deer rule. Trophies are in the eye of the beholder, and if my son's first deer is a doe fawn, then I'm 100% happy for him. If hunters like to take younger deer, that's on them and if they are happy about it, who am I to complain about that? I'm someone who HATES labels, so saying I'm an elitist for wanting to shoot big deer yanks my chain. First and foremost, we are all HUNTERS, although we all don't have the same goals for harvesting a deer, that shouldn't matter. Not everyone likes chocolate cake either. I think its more important to keep the legacy of hunters and hunting alive than it is to worry about what deer you harvest. Not sure if that makes a whole lot of sense, but it did in my little brain!

[tfran123]

Yes he can shoot whatever he wants until he is 16, then he shoots only mature deer. Those are the rules of hunting camp, he is aware of them and understands why it is this way. It doesn't matter if the first deer that walks in front of him is a doe fawn or 180 inch 12 pointer. It is his choice as to shoot it if he wants. Once he hits 16, then he falls into the "mature deer rule" just like the rest of us "elders" at deer camp. This has been the way of deer camp since I started going in 1996 when I got back from the service. Every kid that starts coming to camp follows the same rules and we have never had a problem with that.

Purple......I completely understand that not everyone has the same goals as me. I'm fine with that too. As I stated above, our camp has the rules that you can shoot whatever you'd like until you are 16, then you follow the mature deer rule. Trophies are in the eye of the beholder, and if my son's first deer is a doe fawn, then I'm 100% happy for him. If hunters like to take younger deer, that's on them and if they are happy about it, who am I to complain about that? I'm someone who HATES labels, so saying I'm an elitist for wanting to shoot big deer yanks my chain. First and foremost, we are all HUNTERS, although we all don't have the same goals for harvesting a deer, that shouldn't matter. Not everyone likes chocolate cake either. I think its more important to keep the legacy of hunters and hunting alive than it is to worry about what deer you harvest. Not sure if that makes a whole lot of sense, but it did in my little brain!

We do the same and also open it back up for our older guys, they can shoot what they'd like. Amazing results when you start letting some of the younger stuff go. Have a great season!

[PurpleFloyd]

Purple......I completely understand that not everyone has the same goals as me. I'm fine with that too. As I stated above, our camp has the rules that you can shoot whatever you'd like until you are 16, then you follow the mature deer rule. Trophies are in the eye of the beholder, and if my son's first deer is a doe fawn, then I'm 100% happy for him. If hunters like to take younger deer, that's on them and if they are happy about it, who am I to complain about that? I'm someone who HATES labels, so saying I'm an elitist for wanting to shoot big deer yanks my chain. First and foremost, we are all HUNTERS, although we all don't have the same goals for harvesting a deer, that shouldn't matter. Not everyone likes chocolate cake either. I think its more important to keep the legacy of hunters and hunting alive than it is to worry about what deer you harvest. Not sure if that makes a whole lot of sense, but it did in my little brain!

Agreed.

I think we as hunters are better sorting that out on our own than having the government mandate the change. Looks like you are doing it the right way.

[PEATMOSS]

+1

Nice to hear about people doing things their own way and enjoying the results. I'm particularly happy to see a couple posts by people that can do their own thing and not somehow find the need to whine about their neighbors.

Nice job guys.

[SmellEsox]

Purple and Handgunner, I am an APR supporter, but you bring up a great point. APR increases pressure on antlerless deer which is not a good thing in areas where DNR is trying to increase deer populations. It would actually do the exact opposite. It would decrease deer populations. I've argued that you cannot put them on in areas with lower deer populations. In fact, I'm not sure you'd see great results in the northeast big woods either. Too many other mortality factors with winter and wolves. That and I believe age structure is probably less of an issue there due to less hunting pressure. However, I do think they would be effective all along the transition zone, especially in central MN along the I94 corridor or the Hwy 10 corridor. Hunting pressure is very high there and it is some of the best deer habitat in the state.

[Jameson]

No worries, we have a doe lottery to protect from too much doe harvest.

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Just like we should have a buck lottery in some areas.

[SmellEsox]

Jameson, if you limit doe harvest and buck harvest you will have a lot of angry hunters and APR will get a black eye and you won't be able to institute it anywhere. In other words, not enough people will be putting venny in the freezer.

[candiru]

Jameson, if you limit doe harvest and buck harvest you will have a lot of angry hunters and APR will get a black eye and you won't be able to institute it anywhere. In other words, not enough people will be putting venny in the freezer.

Put venison in the freezer? Some wouldn't even be able to go hunting.

[tfran123]

Jameson, if you limit doe harvest and buck harvest you will have a lot of angry hunters and APR will get a black eye and you won't be able to institute it anywhere. In other words, not enough people will be putting venny in the freezer.

Most of PA is APR, not sure how they do it but I'm sure a solution exists. Nothing is perfect, that much I know for sure.

[TruthWalleyes]

Put venison in the freezer? Some wouldn't even be able to go hunting.

This would never happen as the DNR needs these license sales to fund the majority of DNR. Whatever the DNR does in the future, it will not be with the intent to reduce deer tags.

[nonteepical]

APR and doe harvest have nothing to do with each other. Doe harvest is for population control and buck doe ratio. APR will work in any terrain in the world as long as a whitetail(or any other antlered game)calls it home. APR's only function is to let the majority of yearlings reach their second birthday and has nothing to do with does.

[PurpleFloyd]

Jameson, if you limit doe harvest and buck harvest you will have a lot of angry hunters and APR will get a black eye and you won't be able to institute it anywhere. In other words, not enough people will be putting venny in the freezer.

[PurpleFloyd]

APR and doe harvest have nothing to do with each other. Doe harvest is for population control and buck doe ratio. APR will work in any terrain in the world as long as a whitetail(or any other antlered game)calls it home. APR's only function is to let the majority of yearlings reach their second birthday and has nothing to do with does.

If nobody shoots does or young bucks, just what pray tell will they be shooting? How many of what is left do you think there is to go around? If you believe people are purposely letting big deer walk just so they can harvest a yearling I would disagree. You are not going to get tht population high enough to "Satisfy" every hunter unless you increase the whole population exponentially.

[SmellEsox]

nonteepical, if you restrict buck harvest, you shift more harvest to antlerless deer. Whether it is intended or not, APR shifts harvest to antlerless deer. And I would argue that if deer populations are low, and if you still allow either sex hunting, you will decrease the population more, and you may decrease the number of bucks in the area due to higher buck fawn harvest.

Usually when agencies institute APR, one of their goals is to increase antlerless harvest.

[Getanet]

APR and doe harvest have nothing to do with each other.

One of the stated goals of APR, from everyone from the DNR to many groups supporting APR, is to put more pressure on antlerless deer.

[mntatonka]

APR and doe harvest have nothing to do with each other. Doe harvest is for population control and buck doe ratio. APR will work in any terrain in the world as long as a whitetail(or any other antlered game)calls it home. APR's only function is to let the majority of yearlings reach their second birthday and has nothing to do with does.

wait just a minute. The main goal of APR was to increase the doe harvest. That was number one, and was pushed over and over again by the DNR and the APR supporters. Now you're telling me that APR's have nothing to do with doe harvest? Which is it?

/sarcasm

On a more serious note, you're actually pretty close to correct. APR's haven't increased the doe harvest, which would explain why we're doing an early antlerless season again in places. Hard winters killed a lot of deer, but hunters didn't kill any more than they did before APR's were put in place.

[SmellEsox]

mntatonka, maybe that is an indication that the deer herd isn't as high as a lot of people think. I tend to think that deer numbers are often overestimated, but that is just my seat of the pants opinion.

[MUSKY18]

Well if they want to get the numbers of the herd up, they should go back to 2 seasons, instead of one 9 day season like we have now.

[TruthWalleyes]

Well if they want to get the numbers of the herd up, they should go back to 2 seasons, instead of one 9 day season like we have now.

One 9 day season? Hardly

I've got tags to hunt Archery, 3A, Muzzleloader....3 month season for me.

But, i know what you mean and i would disagree with it. Though it would limit opportunity and thus limit harvest.

[flipper]

I liked the two season hunt like it use to be as well. (Not counting archery and muzzleloading).

[PurpleFloyd]

Well if they want to get the numbers of the herd up, they should go back to 2 seasons, instead of one 9 day season like we have now.

That would certainly be one way to get hunters to shoot even more small bucks. I will say that I have seen more willingness to wait for a better deer now that you don't essentially have to shoot something in the first day of the season to have a shot at filing the tag.

Realistically, and this is going to be something both sides will find hard to adjust to but better in the end, is to focus on the areas where the population is suitable to have and APR and have it work and work towards having hunters in those few areas move towards it while in the rest of the state the goal should be habitat, habitat, habitat and once that is accomplished and the deer herd numbers are built up then they can start on those areas.

[mntatonka]

mntatonka, maybe that is an indication that the deer herd isn't as high as a lot of people think. I tend to think that deer numbers are often overestimated, but that is just my seat of the pants opinion.

Ok, so why are we (Zone 3) doing a regulation that is supposed to increase the doe harvest (even though it didn't)? And why are we having an early antlerless season again? And why are farmers complaining more than ever about crop damage (other than the high price of crops of course)?

I'll agree, the deer population in Zone 3 isn't as high as it was in the early 2000's, and that's great. It's still way too high in a lot of places though, and APR's don't help that one bit.