Musgrave..............

[MUSKY18]

I don't think it really matters one bit who is throwing the ball, who is there to catch the ball. Until Frasier decides that Musgrave is probably THE worst OC in the game and fires him, the Vikings are going to be at a standstill. Look at all the games last year. Defense were able to change their game plan on the fly and Musgrave couldn't adjust to that. Peterson made him look like a great coordinator because he is AP and a beast. Had nothing to do with Musgrave making a great play call. I think he only has about 6-10 plays that he knows.

[BuckSutherland]

Dont steal my thunder. I have been whinning about him since he got here. He reminds me of Henry Winkler in the Waterboy. New England must have a ballboy or someone we could replace him with.

[Scott K]

Not that I dont agree with you with Musgrove, but it is hard to make plays for a QB that cant throw beyond 20 yards, and for receivers that cant catch the ball. You have to keep the plays simple.

[FISHINGURU]

I dunno, everyone said the same things about Bevell. He isn't doing to bad over there in Seattle now. Remember how bad he was here? No one liked him, he only called the same 3 plays.

The best OC's in the game can't make your offense run if you don't have the players for your system.

[LABS4ME]

If Muskrat was a TRUE offensive coord. (which he's not!), he would scheme a scheme that would utilize what Ponder could give them. Look no further than what the Pats did with Cassel... they utilized plays to get out of him what they could! Most times it is the coords. that install a system that works with the players they have... not requiring players to play into their system!

I do think he was starting to put some plays together towards the end of the season that were working with the personell they had... but he showed his TRUE colors when they had to put Webb in against the Packers. Could he had have done a worse job getting a game scheme together than that?!! They knew there would be a chance Ponder would not start or at least complete a game... how about getting Webb plays in to practice so you at least looked above JV?

I agree one of the worst off coord in the league! He must have compromising photos of higher ups in the orginazation!

Good Luck!

Ken

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

If Muskrat was a TRUE offensive coord. (which he's not!), he would scheme a scheme that would utilize what Ponder could give them. Look no further than what the Pats did with Cassel... they utilized plays to get out of him what they could! Most times it is the coords. that install a system that works with the players they have... not requiring players to play into their system!

I do think he was starting to put some plays together towards the end of the season that were working with the personell they had... but he showed his TRUE colors when they had to put Webb in against the Packers. Could he had have done a worse job getting a game scheme together than that?!! They knew there would be a chance Ponder would not start or at least complete a game... how about getting Webb plays in to practice so you at least looked above JV?

I agree one of the worst off coord in the league! He must have compromising photos of higher ups in the orginazation!

Good Luck!

Ken

Yeah well, take Rodgers off the packers and I bet ole' Mike McCarthy looks like a big dumb galute standing on the sidelines. Oh wait- he already looks like that. Point being any coaching staff looks pretty good with Rodgers or Brady or Manning. I would like to see how great of a coach McCarthy is WITHOUT a top 5 QB.... which hes had since he got there with Farve and A roj

[fishersofmen]

Yep. Remember how brilliant Chili and Bevell looked when the Silver Fox was tossing the pig skin for us...At least until the 12 man thingy.

[MUSKY18]

Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Silver Fox was chucking the ball for the Vikings, I believe he pretty much had control over the offense the OC position was renamed "Clipboard holder". I would be willing bet that a lot of plays that were called in from the sidelines were changed by Favre before the ball was ever snapped

[LABS4ME]

Quote:

Yeah well, take Rodgers off the packers and I bet ole' Mike McCarthy looks like a big dumb galute standing on the sidelines. Oh wait- he already looks like that. Point being any coaching staff looks pretty good with Rodgers or Brady or Manning. I would like to see how great of a coach McCarthy is WITHOUT a top 5 QB.... which hes had since he got there with Farve and A roj

Really Yiggin? Your going to defend him? He is not worthy of an OC position. To be fair, I have often times berated McCarthy for many of his decisions, even on here, but if I remember correctly when the Packers had to put Flynn in for the games he had to play, McCarthy and his staff had a game plan that fit him... I can't remember ever seeing Flynn on a top 5 depth chart for QBs... I already gave you Cassel as another example. Seems the Pats came up with a game plan that fit him... made him look good enough to go onto a big contract... he is also never been put in a top 5 depth discussion. Let's see if Muskrat can make him look like an all-pro...

Good Coaches will create plays to work with what they have personell wise, they will not stick with a system that their personell does not mesh with. They have to be good enough to adjust their play books every year based on the new starters in camp. Musgrave Seems to have problems seeing who their top tier players are, how often was Harvin on the sidelines on 3rd down or in the red zone? same with Peterson? even mcCarthy always puts his bullets out in key situations.

Good Luck!

Ken

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Muskgrave's use of Webb in that playoff game was laughable. I dont think hes a good coordinator, but other then AP he hasnt got a ton to work with, i think you can admit that. Rudolph is good , Ponder is limited at best and after Percy we havent had a WR on the field that wasnt borderline embarrasing. So i guess i cant really give muskgrave a failing grade yet. He's on academic probation for sure though!

[MUSKY18]

Muskgrave's use of Webb in that playoff game was laughable. I dont think hes a good coordinator, but other then AP he hasnt got a ton to work with, i think you can admit that. Rudolph is good , Ponder is limited at best and after Percy we havent had a WR on the field that wasnt borderline embarrasing. So i guess i cant really give muskgrave a failing grade yet. He's on academic probation for sure though!

Rudolph is good......yet if Musgrave would realize HOW GOOD, he could probably become a superstar. Given the chances, that kid plays some football, yet Musgrave forgets that. Harvin was being considered as the MVP candidate the first part of the season because they were hitting him with quick slants and letting him use his talent to the utmost. Then teams decided they would stop the slant and Harvin's game went to dump. Musgrave's job is to figure out how to bring his game back, get him the ball and utilize his skills. He can't do that at all.

[CaptainMusky]

McCarthy game plan for Flynn? From what I recall of the game, it appeared to be identical plays to what Rodgers would have run. At that he ran the score up higher, threw more TDs that ARodg had done that year.

I think the only reason McCarthy could be considered a better OC is due to the size of his "play card". I mean seriously, how could Musgrave even get 10 plays on the card he uses?

[zepman]

His inability to come up with a game plan for Webb in the play-off game is inexcusable...he's very rippable there.

But...Ponders ability up to this point simply won't allow Musky to do much more than he does. We have the best run game in the league and the worst pass game in the league.

He didn't seem to have a problem moving (throwing) the ball in Atlanta when Ryan was his QB...it's not hard to figure out. Blame Musky all you want but this is a QB's league and we simply don't have one.

[DrJuice1980]

Our only successful 3rd and long play calls were to AP, he was our offense, this had very little to do with out OC. It was simple and something anybody with a brain could have done, call an inside trap, off tackle to Loadholts side, misdirection. WOW WHAT A GREAT GET AP THE FOOTBALL MIND..... That is how untalented our OC is, point blank he stinks. Anytime he wanted to get fancy, the stuff hit the fan. Hes got to have a little of the blame when it comes to zero passing threat (except Rudolphs superb hands). But there are many things that could have contributed to our weak air game; Ponder, Mus, WRs. There needs to be a process to solve the issue. I think first is the WR position (most apparent flaw) from there we can find out if it truely is Ponder passing or Mus's play calling. We could easly need to replace all 3 areas.

[LABS4ME]

I will say premier players makes any coach look great, but the coaches who can still contend through injuries, free agency etc. are the real deal...

Musgrave's inability to do anything on 3rd down or red zone (how often was Harvin or Peterson on the sidelines in those situations) leads me to believe he is clueless. I think he did an OK job in Atlanta, again easy because you have top tier players... I'd do a good job in that situation, but come here and scheme a game plan with what is given. Sure it may be more of a challenge to be successful but He could have come up with some plays to showcase Rudolph, Harvin and even Jenkins more. I think on the games when Carlson played, come up with something for him. Before all of his injuries he proved he had hands. You may not be able to use plays you had in Atlanta or common plays other teams run with any of the players I listed, but for God's sake, you're a highly paid OC! COme up with some plays that work!!! Everyone expects Def coords to adjust to ever evolving offnses, but yet everyone wants to lay any offensive failures mostly on the players and lack of talent thereof.

[CaptainMusky]

His inability to come up with a game plan for Webb in the play-off game is inexcusable...he's very rippable there.

But...Ponders ability up to this point simply won't allow Musky to do much more than he does. We have the best run game in the league and the worst pass game in the league.

He didn't seem to have a problem moving (throwing) the ball in Atlanta when Ryan was his QB...it's not hard to figure out. Blame Musky all you want but this is a QB's league and we simply don't have one.

I think the game plan was just fine for at least the 1st quarter. Problem is they got away from it for whatever reason. What they started with was great, but they completely went away from that plan and went to a traditional "ponder" plan which Webb doesnt fit well into.

[PurpleFloyd]

I dunno, everyone said the same things about Bevell. He isn't doing to bad over there in Seattle now. Remember how bad he was here? No one liked him, he only called the same 3 plays.

The best OC's in the game can't make your offense run if you don't have the players for your system.

+1

[Fish Head]

Correct me if I am wrong, but when the Silver Fox was chucking the ball for the Vikings, I believe he pretty much had control over the offense the OC position was renamed "Clipboard holder". I would be willing bet that a lot of plays that were called in from the sidelines were changed by Favre before the ball was ever snapped

Wrong. Favre was not given a green light to change plays. It came out latter that he actually changed very few plays during the year at all. That was what caused the rif between Favre and the coaching staff his last year.

[PurpleFloyd]

We went from 3-13 to 10-6 and the playoffs and had the second leading rushing performance in NFL history last year. I would think that the OC had at least something to do with that considering most people including me were expecting nothing more than maybe 6 wins.

[Fish Head]

Amen. Hang in there with Musgrave...

Except for Brian Bilick, I can't remember an offensive coordinator that wasn't being cut down by the masses. From Burns to Bevell. We were 10-6 last year with the 2nd best (if not the best) rushing season ever. Hang in there with Musgrave.

[klecker]

I think he did an OK job in Atlanta

As a OC in Atlanta? He never held that postion for them!!!!

[DrJuice1980]

You all thinking we'd get 6 wins also thought AP wouldn't be 100%. Pretty easy to put together a running game with that freak carrying the leather.