MN Stricter than other states?

[mlvaj]

Just curious as to why MN has a stricter deer hunting laws than other states? In MN, you can only shoot one buck per person per year all weapon combine, but in other states, you can shoot one buck per person per weapon. No wonder we're not getting the money from non-residents when they can just go to WI for the same price. Is this really helping our economy by sending non-residents to other states? Plus I know a few people who won't hunt MN but go across state lines to shoot the Dakotas and WI because of the way the licensing works. Also, this year, most of the state is management zones now, and that limits people on what they want to shoot. I think MN needs to be like WI so that we can have non-residents come and help the state with it tourism. I think MN has equal if not better potential for P&Y and B&C bucks like the Dakotas and WI. But all I see on TV is other states but MN. What are your thoughts?

[PackerBacker12]

I dont think MN has strict deer hunting laws. North Dakota only gives out 65,300 licenses for firearm. You have to get drawn for a tag and even if you get drawn that doesnt mean you can shoot a buck.I believe there are big deer in Minnesota but I think with so many hunters in the woods (somewhere around a half a million) a lot of the deer get shot. I have hunted ND with my bow and have seen many many many large bucks and good sized bucks. The nice thing about having big bucks around is that people pass on the good sized bucks and look for the large bucks. It is fun to know that when a 6 or small 8 is passed up that the neighbor down the fenceline isnt going to shoot it.

[leechlake]

I will give my South Dakota vs Minnesota thoughts.

I've hunted near Leech Lake for 30 years plus and was lucky enough to be invited to a spot in South Dakota near Nebraska border a few miles from the Missouri River.

First, in South Dakota as a non-resident I draw a Whitetail only buck tag between 50%-67% of the years. In the off years I buy double doe tags in order to "save my spot" with the farmer.

I think the following is huge...no party hunting in SD. If I have a buck tag and Saturday am choose to shoot a smallish buck (the farmer frowns highly on that...) I am done for bucks. It's not like Minnesota where I could decided to shoot a fork horn Saturday am and then use someone else's tag of our party of 8 and keep hunting. That does two things, one the little bucks generally aren't shot therefore ending your season and one person can't shoot multiple bucks. This leads to generally more big bucks, in fact it seems like you end up seeing a lot of 4x4 and 5x5's that probably score 125 ish which we pass on but hopefully in subsequent years these are going to turn into the 150 inch or bigger deer.

I don't know if Minnesota really is restrictive but I'm sure it is for some hunting laws and more lax on others. From my opinion we are pretty liberal on opportunities but frankly I don't know if many parts of the state have such great habitat and also compared to Wisconsin we are way farther north and colder than many think which leads to higher winter mortality.

I'm thinking deer that can eat corn, beans, alfalfa along with the normal browse are going to be on average bigger racked and the does may have more fawns. The South Dakota deer still need to have cover when the corn is out to protect themselves and they seem to find it.

My four cents worth.

[InTheNorthwoods]

I completely disagree. MN has quite liberal hunting regulations compared to surrounding states when it comes to bag limits and non-resident hunting opportunity.

For example, comparing MN to ND or SD: In MN, you don't have to draw a tag, and it is about $60 cheaper for the license as a non-resident. In the Dakota's, it is either difficult to draw a buck tag (Or impossible in certain units) for a non-resident, and the tags cost quite a bit more. ND makes available 2% of the total tags for non-residents in the first drawing. In South Dakota, I know several East River units do not make any buck tags available for non-residents.

Lastly, MN allows party hunting, which many of these states do not allow. You can also get "bonus" tags in Minnesota over the counter, this is not the case in some of these states (where you have to draw any tags you get).

In all, I am completely the opposite of the original poster, believing instead that MN should have more restrictive licensing that is geared more towards managing deer herds in respective units and that does not allow unlimited tags and unlimited movement amongst hunters between zones/areas.

[Musky Buck]

What are you really talking about 1 buck, in my area you aint done, you just move on to looking to shoot a bigger one the next time, save your tag for muzzleloader season, no 1 is ever done shooting bucks in my area as "party hunting" which = find the tag in your group to put on him if you tag him at all, making drives is nearly obsolete because the season is so much longer now, save your own like you never got a thing, I think after 29 years of it I know what the groups around me are doing, for 1 every stand is still full of orange on the last day of season as well, no 1 in my area is ever done. Extra tags if some people do leave are left on the table to use by their party members. We have 500,000 deer hunters, did I see ND sold 63,000, there's a major difference and Wisconsin is habitat central, best there is I feel.

[Getanet]

From what I keep hearing, we already place too much pressure on our bucks in MN. I don't see that being a major issue where I hunt, but I certainly don't think it would be a good idea to open it up so that one person could shoot 3 bucks in MN during the archery, firearms and muzzle loader season.

I wouldn't even want to see 1 person shooting 2 bucks throughout the hunting season. If there are that many deer, the focus should be on population control and thinning out the does.

[Musky Buck]

Getanet it is open for as many bucks as you want to cheat with, you archery 1 and don't tag him, now you're good to go for rifle with buck tag in hand, you get 1 and a "party hunting member" tags that 1, then you buy your muzzleloader tag and by the grace of god you connect and finally maybe tag that 1, that's a really hush hush tactic but unfortunately many many in my area live by that code and it can all be lumped in the "party hunting" which is a cover up for party tagging. I think the major intent of party hunting used to be primarily because of deer driving which isn't happening nearly as much as it once did. " You have to guard your stand and your property because you don't want the neighbor to get him" That's the zone 240 philosophy for many since everyone is sitting closer and closer together. People that process there own certainly are the ones doing this because without a tag/register the processors around the state won't cut em up. So you dump that buck behind the house drag it into the shed and save that buck tag or antlerless tag because tags are not free flowing anymore. DNR has no super concrete data as to what is really downed each year. The beauty of it is that isn't going to change, when deer were super plentiful that tactic didn't matter much, now with low deer numbers they're just skimming what's left because "we got to get our deer" we always have". We better be lottery for doe next year or have a bucks only in 240 next year or something, take that muzzy option off the table for everyone also, then people would use more of their rifle tags again.

[bigbucks]

I would agree, you might be able to only actually tag one buck, but there are plenty of ways to shoot multiples. If those are the numbers, 500,000 MN hunters vs 63,000 ND or maybe it was SD hunters, what's so hard to figure out? We're talking 7-8 times as many hunters, how could that not affect the population. No one is ever turned away from being able to buy a deer license of any kind in MN, resident or nonresident. Most states at least nonresidents have to apply & be drawn, at least for firearms.

[PropsterII]

Simple - party hunting

[PropsterII]

You could go to Iowa and hope to draw a tag every 2-4 years, and pay a king's ranson for the pleasure as a nonresident ($651 last time I applied)

[Getanet]

Getanet it is open for as many bucks as you want to cheat with, you archery 1 and don't tag him, now you're good to go for rifle with buck tag in hand, you get 1 and a "party hunting member" tags that 1, then you buy your muzzleloader tag and by the grace of god you connect and finally maybe tag that 1, that's a really hush hush tactic but unfortunately many many in my area live by that code and it can all be lumped in the "party hunting" which is a cover up for party tagging. I think the major intent of party hunting used to be primarily because of deer driving which isn't happening nearly as much as it once did. " You have to guard your stand and your property because you don't want the neighbor to get him" That's the zone 240 philosophy for many since everyone is sitting closer and closer together. People that process there own certainly are the ones doing this because without a tag/register the processors around the state won't cut em up. So you dump that buck behind the house drag it into the shed and save that buck tag or antlerless tag because tags are not free flowing anymore. DNR has no super concrete data as to what is really downed each year. The beauty of it is that isn't going to change, when deer were super plentiful that tactic didn't matter much, now with low deer numbers they're just skimming what's left because "we got to get our deer" we always have". We better be lottery for doe next year or have a bucks only in 240 next year or something, take that muzzy option off the table for everyone also, then people would use more of their rifle tags again.

I understand what you're saying MuskyBuck, but what you are experiencing is illegal and no changes to the regulations are going to stop what you're describing. Perhaps I'm naive, but I think the majority of hunters follow the laws as best the can. Even with party hunting, you are only able to shoot one buck person with a tag. So a party of 10 guys could only take 10 bucks - even if all 10 didn't get shoot their own. If we expanded it as described above, theoretically you're talking the potential for 30 bucks in one year.

[Farm_Kid]

So you want to shoot more bucks in hopes to increase the population of large bucks?

[1eyeReD]

MN's deer population might not be able to handle the extra pressure. 1 buck a person per year sounds just about right. Plus the resident hunter numbers are pretty darn high. Everybody and their brother hunts.

Bringing some of the formerly intensive zones down to managed zones and a few managed down to choice or lottery was done for a reason. In those areas, you may find thick pockets of deer but for the rest, deer are far and between. I know this because some of my family members hunt lottery zones to get away from crowds. Less deer vs managed or intensive zones period.

[Wensel]

Yep go to Iowa or WI but shooting more bucks in MN wont get your TV dreams to come real, there in lies the problem..shut the dump off!

Might want to take a look at the numbers too, Sconi has just a few more deer than MN

[BobT]

I'm glad this is being tuned into another party hunting debate rather than staying on topic.

[Musky Buck]

Farm kid very few are letting any buck walk anyway, or we'd see a bunch of 2.5 year olds which aren't around either, the does need to recover in the area, entire wintering herds of deer are gone and last I checked the does have the fawns that are also targeted by so many in the area,lucky if you see 1, add in timberwolves new to the area in the last 4-5 years and wa la. There's a ton of great cover in 240, used to be the state's # 1 or near the top, but hunter numbers and opportunity have caught up to the deer in that zone, small properties, tons of stands and shooting lanes, lots of tags, lots more days afield and now how is this going to recover when now we're just skimming off the survivors from the year before, knock those numbers down again and now again and how will the numbers recover with such a I have to guard my land and stand in case he comes by, if not I'll fill the rest of my parties tags even though 1/2 the guys headed back to the cities. Many in our group haven't seen a doe in years, that is hard to believe but it's true, and we haven't shot a doe in 26 years. Agree or not but since zone 4 ended after the 1st year of zone 2 the deer have tanked in our area. I know the first weekend is 70% of the kill, but deer that used to survive the hunt are still getting picked off because of the extra days and muzzleloading, I miss you old zone 4, I guess I side with whitetails more than the hunters.

[leechlake]

just a point I've read in this thread twice.

It is not legal for someone in your party to leave their tag for someone else to use as "party hunting." The hunter is to be also in the field hunting at the same time, with the same license type.

I realize this isn't followed to much but it's another problem. People have their wife buy a license and she doesn't ever step into the woods, shoot does for youth.

It's part of the problem with "party hunting" and this is part of the original post of hunting maybe being too restrictive. Like I said before maybe some things are different than other states but the party hunting and abuse of party hunting can be a huge negative. I realize it has tradition on it's side and some good to it for enjoying more time hunting but it has it's share of negative impact on the herd.

[laker1]

Minnesota is just right. Each state is also different in what it can produce. We are already harvesting are bucks to the max.

[PropsterII]

BobT, discussing party hunting is in direct response to the OP's question, it's not some tangential offshoot that doesn't apply. I can respect that you maybe don't like talking about it perhaps because you are in favor of it and are uncomfortable hearing the alternative viewpoint. But the plain and simple fact is that MN's hunting regs regarding limits (compared to the seemingly much looser limits other states have) is a result of or compensation for, party hunting.

[tazimna]

I tend to disagree that MN is restrictive in their deer management plans. Party hunting is an idea that should be abolished. Doe permits...if you apply and recieve one, you should be REQUIRED to shoot a doe. Don't want a doe, don't put in for one. It's gotta be tough to manage a population of doe's when each year a smaller and smaller % of the permits given don't get used due to shooting a buck instead. Season timing....move the opener 2 weeks later. Go ahead and kill every big buck in the state, but atleast let them breed and pass genetics on before killing them. As a farmer, i don't kill a bull until he's gotten a chance to pass on the genetics(it's the genetics more than longevity that will produce bigger deer). And finally, MN has a deer season that is almost 4 months long....WAAAAY to long in my opinion. To have a buck/deer hunted for that much time is absolutely nuts. taz

[picksbigwagon]

Too long of a deer season, too many 4 month deer hunters and lets face it, we have a half million deer hunters in MN! if you added up ND, SD, and IA deer hunters, you still wouldn't come close to 500,000.

I deer hunt in IA, in fact I am counting down the days until December 1st, they allow party hunting, they allow cross tagging, why? because it is an effective tool to manage the deer herd. IF people are leaving tags on the table for others to use, they need to be ticketed and fined. IF your neighbors are poaching or filling multiple multiple tags for people who are at work, CALL TIP!!!!!! IF your neighbors are the problem so are you for not reporting them!

[lakevet]

Too long of a deer season, too many 4 month deer hunters and lets face it, we have a half million deer hunters in MN! if you added up ND, SD, and IA deer hunters, you still wouldn't come close to 500,000.

I deer hunt in IA, in fact I am counting down the days until December 1st, they allow party hunting, they allow cross tagging, why? because it is an effective tool to manage the deer herd. IF people are leaving tags on the table for others to use, they need to be ticketed and fined. IF your neighbors are poaching or filling multiple multiple tags for people who are at work, CALL TIP!!!!!! IF your neighbors are the problem so are you for not reporting them!

Agree 100%

The liberalization of the time window and ways to harvest a buck has increased pressure on bucks. The push for the four month deer hunting with all weapons came from those who want to harvest the biggest buck possible, not your average hunter.

Most of what is mislabeled "party hunting" by opponents is already illegal, banned, and not enforced enough!

Party hunting has always been legal in Wisconsin (#1 recent producer of book bucks) and Iowa. Party hunting does not have the impact some imagine.

From the Outdoor News article discussing banning party hunting for bucks with Lou C. in the June 18th 2010 issue:

"The regulation likely won't change the harvest of antlered deer much - about 7 percent to 10 percent of successful hunters kill two bucks "

Again: "The regulation likely won't change the harvest of antlered deer much"

Lou is against party hunting, but banning is based on personal dislike of the method, not scientific fact.

It is better to spend our energy and time on something that will actually make a significant difference in the deer population and not needlessly divide hunters.

Go back to pick a zone and firearm season. Rifle or muzzy, not both. Hunt whitewater or ottertail county, not both. You can switch next year.

lakevet

[MUSKY18]

We rifle hunt in 259 and it has been either Intensive Harvest or Managed for the past 5 years. Last year we harvested 5 bucks and 1 doe. This year was 1 buck. Nobody even saw a doe, but yet it is a managed area? HOW? There wasn't enough deer seen to fill every possible tag that could have been filled.

I have had two tags in my pocket since Sept 1st and will probably only fill one of them. I won't use anyone elses tags just so I can keep hunting. Know too many people who just want to kill the animals for the fun and the meat ends up not getting eaten. As much fun as have in the woods, I also like to eat what I kill. My buddy has land and won't let the inlaws hunt unless they eat all their venison before the next season because his BIL just likes to shoot as many deer as he can. Wasteful to the resource is all that is.

I would love to see it come down to no more party hunting. But how do you effectively control that? Unless you have 10,000 wardens, it will always happen. It has to be policed by the ethical hunters themselves. If you want the resource to thrive and be healthy, then we have to take care of it ourselves.

What if you controlled the licenses by season? If you buy a bow license you can't purchase a firearms license, etc?

[jay83196]

Or how about we just leave it alone or just have all lottery or hunters choice areas and maybe a few intensive if need be around cities to control population for safety (car accidents etc). Just because we all don't get a deer or a monter buck doesn't mean the population is down/ bad, and if we all got one every year it wouldn't be as special when we do, its suppose to be hard work and time consuming thats what makes it great! just because we see less doesn't always mean anything either, I shot a bear the last two years but have never seen one in all my walking around the woods, except hunting but I know they are out there...

Leave it alone I say...

[slimngrizzly]

Threads like this give me cold sweats and the shakes.

Ive hunted in different parts of ND, SD, IA, and WI... Id basically take a day of hunting in any of them over a week in my part of MN. IMO we need to change something so this place can start to live up to its potential. Id start with the elimination of party hunting, I personally dont see any reason for it.