Mn Wolf

[lichen fox]

And if you remember...this spring, the DNR pretty much acknowledged that there were way to many wolves outside the area the DNR defines as the "wolf core area"....this may be hard to get under control...as what I've noticed in over 20 years of hunting bear and grouse 60 miles east of me in the Beltrami forest and hunting deer here on the eastern edge of the Red River Valley...when deer numbers are good in the Beltrami forest area....we have less wolves around the eastern side of the RRV...when the deer numbers drop drasticly in the Beltrami forest, for whatever reason, severe winters, wolf depredation...whatever...we have alot more wolves and livestock depradation reports in our deer hunting area...wolves will move where the food is...they are not like some other wildlife that spend the majority of thier life in a 2 or 3 square mile area...This first season will be interesting for sure...hope I get drawn for a trapping tag, and I hope I can find out what that DNR trapper uses for bait when he is trapping and collaring 3 to 5 wolves a week in Sept!! It atta work like magic in late November!!!

[Bear55]

I have been telling the wolves for years that there are more deer to the south and west, it looks like they are finally listening. Sorry guys my bad.

[lichen fox]

They are nomads...when they clean out everything there is to eat and use in one area...they move on to greener pastures or they die of starvation...And they never, ever listen to a bear that's 55 years old!

[Bear55]

never trust a 55 year old bear.

However I can promise you they won't clean the herd out and move on, they do seem to create a herd of super deer. When fawns start acting like 3 year old bucks you know they grew up in wolf country.

[nofishfisherman]

Musky Buck, I certainly do get some of the frustration these guys feel. There in a large investment into the sport by many hunters and its hard to see things change. The problem is that the guys I've talked to made these investments when the deer population was artificially made larger by the absence of their main natural predator. They came to see the deer population without wolves as the norm when the truth is the population was much larger than normal by the absence of wolves.

I'm sure it will take time for hunters to get accustomed to the existence of wolves and their impact on the deer herd. It very well may take a new generation who grows up hunting with wolves as a competitor. Hopefully with the legalized hunt we'll see the wolf population get into check and get back to its core range and hopefully that will help speed up the acceptance of the wolves.

On a side note. I think its true that the wolves won't totally deplete the deer in an entire area. If that's how they operate they would never have survived as a species. Sooner or later they would have killed off all the deer and starved to death. Instead I think the wolves make for smarter and more wary deer. This forces hunters to rethink their strategy and adapt their strategy to account for the change in deer behavior. If you are seeing wolves on cam and no deer that doesn't mean the wolves killed all the deer. If there are no deer in the area then why would the wolves be hanging around? If there are wolves there should be deer somewhere in the area so likely the deer wised up and changed their patterns to avoid the wolves.

[lichen fox]

I wasn't saying the wolves kill "all" the deer in a given area...I said when populations drop due to any number of factors...depradation, severe winters, etc....Wolves will travel, 50-100-150-200 miles to hunt and when they get into ag areas and start feeding on sheep, cattle, turkeys, etc... that's when they get into trouble.

[SandPoint]

There were a lot of other factors besides the lack of wolves that increased the deer population. In the 70's there were not many deer and not many wolves in the core wolf area.

[Bear55]

  nofishfisherman said:

I'm sure it will take time for hunters to get accustomed to the existence of wolves and their impact on the deer herd. It very well may take a new generation who grows up hunting with wolves as a competitor. Hopefully with the legalized hunt we'll see the wolf population get into check and get back to its core range and hopefully that will help speed up the acceptance of the wolves.

On a side note. I think its true that the wolves won't totally deplete the deer in an entire area. If that's how they operate they would never have survived as a species. Sooner or later they would have killed off all the deer and starved to death. Instead I think the wolves make for smarter and more wary deer. This forces hunters to rethink their strategy and adapt their strategy to account for the change in deer behavior. If you are seeing wolves on cam and no deer that doesn't mean the wolves killed all the deer. If there are no deer in the area then why would the wolves be hanging around? If there are wolves there should be deer somewhere in the area so likely the deer wised up and changed their patterns to avoid the wolves.

Good post nofish. As someone who grew up hunting with wolves it is no big deal. Sure they eat their fair share of deer but there is no reason to fear that. I do think they are a little overpopulated now but with the hunting season now open and a nice mild winder to benefit the deer their population will be kept in check.

[Mike Sertich]

Great post non-fisherman. Educated commentary that this wolf guy respects. I believe the wolf to be a magnificent creature. I have more problems with deer than wolves. Although not a deer hunter, I spend a lot of time in the woods and always marvel at the delicate balance of nature. Both sides of the deer/wolf scenario are often misconstrued. Nature has a way of taking care of business. I respect that.

[lichen fox]

In the area we hunt it is actually quite rare to see a wolf in deer season...but they are here as in the past two years they have trapped 5 or more each year near a sheep farm just a mile west of where we hunt...It's fun to see wolves, cougers, bears, etc. in an ag area where in the 70's all there was to hunt were birds, deer, moose, fox & coons...What happens over here though is not so much someone shooting a wolf just because they saw one, but more that a livestock producer looses 25-50 or more lambs or turkeys, or a cattle farmer looses a calf or two and it's cheaper for the DNR, (or whoever pays for it), to call in a state predator controller and just get rid of the problem before it costs the state more money in restitution....

[swamptiger]

I'll buy into the "co-exist" spiel when the wolves are successfully re-populated in the Twin Cities area..

[lichen fox]

if they keep the the quota at 400 per year, the wolves will be bountiful in metropolitan areas before you know it! Enjoy!

[nofishfisherman]

What makes you think wolves will be bountiful in the metro area? According to the wolf studies the population of wolves have been more or less steady over the last several years. So without increased populations why would they be ranging as far south as the metro area? Believe it or not they haven't killed all the deer in northern Minnesota so there is still food available to them.

[Archerysniper]

  nofishfisherman said:

What makes you think wolves will be bountiful in the metro area? According to the wolf studies the population of wolves have been more or less steady over the last several years. So without increased populations why would they be ranging as far south as the metro area? Believe it or not they haven't killed all the deer in northern Minnesota so there is still food available to them.

Well they just have to go south a little bit but the dnr has a confirmed breeding pack of wolves in the Dalbo area. I also know their are a few that got loose into Carlos Avery.

[lichen fox]

Nofish...I was just kidding....I would find it very unlikely that any metro area would ever have a pack of wolves make that area thier home...but I suppose it could be possible...coyotes, racoons and bears seem to like to snoop around larger cities quite regularly when the hunting gets tougher wherever they normally range...And you are right, the wolves haven't killed all the deer in northern mn...heck even the sharpshooters, and unlimited tags in year long seasons couldn't wipe em out!

[C10]

Only 23,000 applicants?

[Jameson]

Does anyone think the hunters will fill the first season quota? I don't.

[westb]

  C10 said:

Only 23,000 applicants?

Any idea on the number breakdown for each season? A, B, and C trapping?

[NoWiser]

Hard to say if they will fill the quota. I think it will be tough. I applied and see wolves very often while deer hunting. If I get drawn, I like my odds. However, I know a lot of people who applied who have never seen a wolf in their life, but just want to have a tag to say that they have one. If any of them get drawn, their chances are near zero to bag a wolf.

On a different (but related) note, I was driving with my girlfriend north of Isabella this past weekend. We were on the North Shore and had a couple of hours to spare and I wanted to see some burned areas first hand from the Pagami Creek Fire last fall. On our way back she made the comment "it would be fun to see a wolf - from the car". About a half hour later 3 monster timber wolves crossed the road right in front of us. No matter how many times I see them, I never get sick of it. Pretty awesome animals!

[nofishfisherman]

i guess I should have asked a while back. What do you do with a wolf once you shoot it? Is there any way to utilze the animal?

If you shot it from a stand while deer hunting I can't imagine the hide would be in very good shape after getting hit with a 30.06 or other large caliber rifle.

[psepuncher]

  Jameson said:

Does anyone think the hunters will fill the first season quota? I don't.

I think the chances are better with a mild winter.

Since the deer are more agile with less snow, the wolves have to find another source of food.

Wolves, especially when moving pups to better food sources are probably easier to see during less snow periods, and better yet after rain fall.

So I'm thinking the early bird will get the job done.

one thing to think about is pups will always be hungry. Cut off some of the food source and they will be less reliant on fear instincts and more on survival for food.

Sure they'll spread out from hunting pressure, but you put anything

{even a gun totin wolf nabber}in between them and a food source and they will do what ever it takes to eat. The surplus killings that wolves often do may even become more prevalant in some areas.

There's been over 240 wolves killed in MN this year already by Federal, and State trappers and farmers. Hope to see a reduction in domestic restitution which has been near $160,000 so far this year.

In mo, I think an early tag is going to be easier to fill.

[BartmanMN]

Make a nice hat out of it. The big hole just adds character to it.

On Yukon Men, they said they get almost $400 for a wolf hide (no holes)

[BLACKJACK]

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out, see how many wolves actually get shot and trapped. I think a limited hunting season is good to put the 'fear of man' back into them, it will stop the wandering around in the daylight that the original poster talked about. Would be interesting to see on a map where they all get killed, my bet is that there will be pockets where quite a few get shot and other areas where none are exposed to hunting, unlike deer that get chased all over the state.

[Musky Buck]

I agree nofish, I am aware of how many packs are now living in Ottertail County, sure is a change of the times.

[graf703]

I also applied. I hunt pretty far North. In our group of 6 last year we saw 20 wolves and 6 deer. The last 4 years I have hunted with these guys we usually had 4 trophy mounts and watched deer on their property all day. We saw absolutely nothing last year.

I think some of the ignored elements to the controversy are:

1) Rapid moose decline. I'm aware of Yellowstone's elk population being completely destroyed by their wolf population. I'd like to know what is known about the wolf depredating moose.

2) Known vs speculated population. It sounds like they speculate the wolf population more than they assess it. I've heard numbers being dramatically higher when flyover studies are performed instead of whatever the heck they do now. If my group has personally seen over 20 different wolves in one small area. I've met people who witnessed wolves from Isabella down to Hinckley. I bet my direct reports are over a hundred. I don't know that many people. The poulation is way higher than estimated.

3) Protest applicants? One way to defeat the wolf hunt would be for protesters to apply for permits to eat up the 6000 lottery tags with non hunters. Did this happen?

4) Closing the season. For those that have experiences like mine, how am I supposed to know when the season closes? I'm in no man's land with no cell service and no tv for opening weekend. Hypothetically they could close the season at 1 pm and I wouldn't know until Sunday night.