Cougar shooter charged!

[LightningBG]

Fines are set up as a punishment to the wrongdoer and as an incentive to future wrongdoers NOT to do it, this will make people think twice about shooting the next cougar they see.

Yes, "fines" are, which they are seeking, along with "restitution".

I would have shot it too. Heck, if one wanders through my yard tomorrow, I'll shoot it.

[bobbymalone]

I would have shot it too. Heck, if one wanders through my yard tomorrow, I'll shoot it.

awwww, who's afraid of da big bad puddy tat?

[Double D]

Like someone said on another thread:

Shoot

Shovel

Shut up (not go on facebook)

DD

[mnviking28]

Without taking a side in this and playing the "do what is right" card, how many of you have young kids and live in a rural area? If this cat was close to his house, which it sounds like it was, how many of you would be comfortable with this predator in your back yard? You would be completly at ease with letting your kids and or pets play in the yard knowing it was around? I live about a mile from where the cat was hit on the road by Bemidji a couple of years ago. It was hit on one the east side of a half section of woods, I live on the west side. I won't lie that it gave me a cold shiver when I think of my kids playing outside with it that close. If it were me, I don't know what I would have done. But, I have to tell you that it is easy to condemn when you aren't the one confronted with the situation. If it was stalking a pet or the kids, then what is your answer? Cats are a different kind of predator, they aren't bears, they aren't wolves, I am way, way, way more afraid of a cat than I am any other predator. If I went out to Colorado or Wyoming, I would be way more concerned about being in a confrontation with a cat than a wolf or any kind of bear.

[bobbymalone]

Without taking a side in this and playing the "do what is right" card, how many of you have young kids and live in a rural area? If this cat was close to his house, which it sounds like it was, how many of you would be comfortable with this predator in your back yard? You would be completly at ease with letting your kids and or pets play in the yard knowing it was around? I live about a mile from where the cat was hit on the road by Bemidji a couple of years ago. It was hit on one the east side of a half section of woods, I live on the west side. I won't lie that it gave me a cold shiver when I think of my kids playing outside with it that close. If it were me, I don't know what I would have done. But, I have to tell you that it is easy to condemn when you aren't the one confronted with the situation. If it was stalking a pet or the kids, then what is your answer? Cats are a different kind of predator, they aren't bears, they aren't wolves, I am way, way, way more afraid of a cat than I am any other predator. If I went out to Colorado or Wyoming, I would be way more concerned about being in a confrontation with a cat than a wolf or any kind of bear.

California has a lot of people and a lot of mountain lions. But how many attacks in the past 110 years? About 15.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/lion/attacks.html

Nervous about a cat in the yard? Sure. Realistic about coexisting with them in the state? Yep, that too.

Far more worried about the pitbull down the block than the mountain lion reports from the MVNR across the street.

[smnduck]

The story I have heard was that the cat crossed the road in front the shooters at night or in the dark and went into a culvert. It was then chased out and shot.

[broken_line]

if said kitty was eating or about to be eating a family member or pet that thing would get every round of buck shot i own stuck in it.. but if it was wandering along across the lake so big deal.. shoot it with a camera and brag about that..

[BobT]

Without taking a side in this and playing the "do what is right" card, how many of you have young kids and live in a rural area? If this cat was close to his house, which it sounds like it was, how many of you would be comfortable with this predator in your back yard? You would be completly at ease with letting your kids and or pets play in the yard knowing it was around?

[mainbutter]

Somehow I didn't get eaten growing up, but that moose calf carcass in our neighbor's yard made us wonder sometimes.

Still, I never saw my parents shoot a brown bear or a moose just because it was nearby and a potential threat if we were going to play outside. We took precautions if we spotted large wildlife of course.

I also never saw my parents take a shovel to rattlesnakes, copperheads, or cottonmouths either. I can tell which people on these forums would be the ones to act in such a manner if they lived in some of the places where I have.

I guess there are those of us who squish the black widow, and there are those of us who gently take it from it's indoor location and place it outside on a bush.

[dogs]

He made his mistake by not putting a bandana around its neck, like that pair of fawns had on in Forest Lake and had to be shot for the threat they posed.

[Chuby Minnow]

It sure would have been cool to see the kitty in person. I can imagine the double or triple take it took to realize what it was.

[blindluck]

"It's coming right for us!" All kidding aside, last one I read about in Iowa the guy at least called the DNR and the landowner to make sure it was ok to shoot it.

[mnviking28]

Bobbymalone, lets take the next couple we find and release them in Burnsville. How long do you suppose that will take for the public to change their opinion of having them? I find it is interesting that most guys that are talking about nailing this guy to the wall are from the metro. Why is that? It couldn't be because that you know there isn't a real chance that one would take up residence there and not get hit by a car? There was a bear that moved into the metro last fall, how long did it survive? It is easy for people that are not in the situation to crucify those who are. I really find it interesting that you throw California on the table. California voters passed prop 117 in 1990 banning mountain lion hunting and setting up a $30 million "conservation fund". Using your statistics of 15 attacks, did you notice that 11 of them have taken place since then? Also, in the last 22 years, there were the first 3 fatalities since 1909? Why?

So what you are saying BobT is that mountain lions are different than EVERY other cat? Every cat I have ever watched hunt, whether it is a house cat hunting a mouse, a bobcat hunting a squirrel or a lion hunting a zebra on the Discovery channel, they use every bit of cover available, sneak as close as they can, and then pounce. Is that not stalking? If not, what is it? Mountain lions don't do that? You and your horses didn't feel threatened, how about your kids? Did you keep an extra close eye on them or did you just say "ah, can't happen here"? There was a case in Washington state a couple of years ago that there was one in a tree in a guys yard. Farm country, just like the southwest part of the state. He shot it and it chased him to the house. It died on his deck. There were pics of blood all over his front door and his deck. Must be because it was afraid of him, right? Obviously one of them would never attack a small child, deer are much easier to catch.

Sign me up, release a whole bunch of them in my yard. Maybe we can take some of California's extras and release them just like the wolves in Yellowstone. By the way, how did that one work out?

[paul pachowicz]

Would have been a whole different story if that took place here in SO dak. 35 have been killed since the season opened on the 1st of Jan. No telling how many fall to SSS. Several times a year they will be taken out by game wardens if they are anywhere near a residence or in town. I'm on your side with this, mnviking. I'll quote as close as I can from a rancher who took one out after his ranch dog treed one while they were together doing chores: "If it's on MY land, it a threat".

[bobbymalone]

I find it is interesting that most guys that are talking about nailing this guy to the wall are from the metro. Why is that?

[mnviking28]

You used the arguement that there are lots of people in California and that there have been 15 attacks in the last 100+ years. My reply was that you are correct in that, but over 2/3 of them have been in the last approximately 20 years and attacks increased as soon as they started to Disneyize them and become complacent. If these animals are allowed to live in our back yards with no fear of humans, that we are setting ourselves up for the same scenario. When predators lose their fear of man, that is when bad things start to happen. They are not cute and cuddly, they are animals that eat other animals, including people. None of them are named Simba and dance around singing a song. I am not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to exist, I am saying that they don't belong in the populated areas. If you think they do, I stand by my offer, lets have the DNR trap them and relocate them to Burnsville, preferrably in your neighborhood. See how your comfort level with having one around your house changes. See if you are willing to go out in the back yard at night, or let your pets or kids play out there, especially in evening hours. If they are just a big house cat, maybe you just would prefer to keep it in your garage? Humans are the perfect food for them, especially children. We don't run fast, we don't have much for natural defenses. If it is chasing down a deer or an eight year old kid, which is it going to pick? This is especially true with these "young males" that supposedly are dispersing here. They are just learning to hunt. A slow clumsy kid or a 130 lb doe? If I was a starving young cougar, I think I know which would be easier for me to catch.

[bobbymalone]

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[upnorth]

So what you are saying BobT is that mountain lions are different than EVERY other cat? Every cat I have ever watched hunt, whether it is a house cat hunting a mouse, a bobcat hunting a squirrel or a lion hunting a zebra on the Discovery channel, they use every bit of cover available, sneak as close as they can, and then pounce. Is that not stalking? If not, what is it? Mountain lions don't do that?

I am pretty sure if a MT Lion was stalking you, you wouldn't even know it.

[mnviking28]

The point behind that is that people that think it is a family joyride to go to the "country" as you call it don't live there. They think it is cute to go out and see the "wildlife". They don't have their family pet disappear out of their yard by a coyote or timber wolf or other predator. They aren't nearly as in touch with the day to day life of seeing this stuff on a regular basis. It changes your perspective. The comments that were made on the topic that were from people outside the metro were not the ones condemning this guy. That is my point. When you are there EVERY DAY, it is not the same as having a cabin that you go to once a week or once a month. If he truly put it on Facebook, I disagree with that. But, if it was near his house and he has small kids or there are small kids in the neighborhood, who are you to judge?

Upnorth-I agree with you 100%, don't know if your quote was meant to say that I didn't.

[BobT]

I may stand corrected on the stalking part.

From National Geographic.

Quote:

Mountain lions like to prey on deer, though they also eat smaller animals such as coyotes, porcupines, and raccoons. They usually hunt at night or during the gloaming hours of dawn and dusk. These cats employ a blend of stealth and power, stalking their prey until an opportunity arrives to pounce, then going for the back of the neck with a fatal bite. They will hide large carcasses and feed on them for several days.

From the Mountain Lion Foundation.

Quote:

HOW DO THEY LIVE IN THE WILD?

The American lion is very territorial and their home areas can range from 25 square miles in Idaho and California to 1000 square miles in western Texas. They mark the boundaries of their home areas with scrapes of earth, leaves, and urine. The cats tend to be active at dawn, dusk, and at night, when they roam their home area search of prey

From the ABUNDANT WILDLIFE SOCIETY OF NORTH AMERICA.

Quote:

Mountain lions are solitary animals. They tend to live in remote country and are seldom seen by humans. They hunt their prey by stealth and ambush. Their method of killing is usually with a powerful bite at the base of the skull, breaking the neck

From WikiAnswers

Quote:

Lions are most active from dusk to dawn, although they travel and hunt in the daylight. Lions prefer to eat deer, however, they also kill elk, porcupines, small mammals, livestock and a variety of domestic animals such as pets.

Mountain lions prefer to kill their own prey. Like most cats, they take their prey by ambush rather than by a long pursuit. After spotting prey, a lion stalks using available cover, then attacks with a rush, often from behind.

[BobT]

The point behind that is that people that think it is a family joyride to go to the "country" as you call it don't live there. They think it is cute to go out and see the "wildlife". They don't have their family pet disappear out of their yard by a coyote or timber wolf or other predator. They aren't nearly as in touch with the day to day life of seeing this stuff on a regular basis. It changes your perspective. The comments that were made on the topic that were from people outside the metro were not the ones condemning this guy. That is my point. When you are there EVERY DAY, it is not the same as having a cabin that you go to once a week or once a month. If he truly put it on Facebook, I disagree with that. But, if it was near his house and he has small kids or there are small kids in the neighborhood, who are you to judge?

Upnorth-I agree with you 100%, don't know if your quote was meant to say that I didn't.

I have to wonder though, who's judging? One must be careful.

[BobT]

mnviking28.

I don't quite know how I will put this so please understand that I mean no disrespect or malice. I can't help sense a certain level of anxiety in your posts. Reading your posts I get the impression that I should tread lightly when I go outside or afield for fear of possible attack from a cougar. Just due to numbers, any apprehension I might feel would be more from the possibility of facing a pack of wolves or a she bear than a cat. I don't think those in the more western states where cougar numbers are much higher live in constant fear of attack. When we go camping we don't concern ourselves with a fear from attack and we are surrounded by wolves and coyotes as we can hear them at night. This year I know we had a wolf howling within a few hundred yards of our campsite.

As much as I understand that we can't ignore the fact that there are wild things out there that can hurt us, I think it is equally important that we avoid excessive fear and anxiety about being in the wild either. Truth be told, there are very few wild creatures that we could handle in a face-to-face confrontation if we are unarmed. We are a weak species but they don't know it and that's our edge.

[JIvers]

...Just due to numbers, any apprehension I might feel would be more from the possibility of facing a pack of wolves or a she bear than a cat. I don't think those in the more western states where cougar numbers are much higher live in constant fear of attack. When we go camping we don't concern ourselves with a fear from attack and we are surrounded by wolves and coyotes as we can hear them at night. This year I know we had a wolf howling within a few hundred yards of our campsite.

As much as I understand that we can't ignore the fact that there are wild things out there that can hurt us, I think it is equally important that we avoid excessive fear and anxiety about being in the wild either. Truth be told, there are very few wild creatures that we could handle in a face-to-face confrontation if we are unarmed. We are a weak species but they don't know it and that's our edge.

To all this I would add that in the Midwest any person's chances of being injured or killed in a car-deer collision or contracting Lyme disease (of which deer are a major carrier) are far better than any one person's chances of being injured or killed in a mountain lion attack in California.

A wild mountain lion was killed two years ago by Marengo, Iowa, which is less than twenty miles from where I live, and another was confirmed in a trail cam photo less than sixty miles east of here in Clinton County, Iowa, last fall. There have been numerous other sightings in this area, although I believe most of them are false.

I am not worried about being attacked by a cougar when I am out mushroom hunting or shore-fishing here, but I do check for deer ticks when I am done, and I do keep my eyes peeled for deer when I drive anywhere at sunrise or sundown. Why? The odds I cited above.

I do not, however, believe I am justified in shooting any deer I see because it might run out in the path of a car, or might be hosting a deer tick with Lyme disease.

[JIvers]

As far as the number of unprovoked mountain lion attacks on humans in California goes, one should include the number of unprovoked attacks on humans in states like Arizona.

Like California, AZ has a large population of both humans and cats, but unlike CA Arizona allows sport hunting of mountain lions while limiting the harvest to 250-350 per year so as to maintain a healthy population of cougar: http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/game_lion.shtml

The result is that Arizona has seen a total of two non-fatal attacks by cougars on humans, while they maintain a robust puma population. In more lightly populated states like South Dakota and Montana that allow limited (not "shoot on sight" unlimited harvest with no regulation) hunting of big cats I suspect you will see similar numbers.

[upnorth]

The point behind that is that people that think it is a family joyride to go to the "country" as you call it don't live there. They think it is cute to go out and see the "wildlife". They don't have their family pet disappear out of their yard by a coyote or timber wolf or other predator. They aren't nearly as in touch with the day to day life of seeing this stuff on a regular basis. It changes your perspective. The comments that were made on the topic that were from people outside the metro were not the ones condemning this guy. That is my point. When you are there EVERY DAY, it is not the same as having a cabin that you go to once a week or once a month. If he truly put it on Facebook, I disagree with that. But, if it was near his house and he has small kids or there are small kids in the neighborhood, who are you to judge?

Upnorth-I agree with you 100%, don't know if your quote was meant to say that I didn't.

Here is my take on this. We have a few people trying to rationalize breaking a law of our State and it is a game law. I just don't see how someone can call themselves a sportsman and advocate breaking any game law.

People have used the stalking thing pretty loosely and I just wanted to point out that these cats are not going to be easy to detect if they are waiting to ambush or stalking. If you have kids playing outside and you see a cougar, I would suggest what mankind has been doing for centuries, get your kids out of harms way. And in today's day in age, best to call the authorities whether we are talking the DNR, Sheriff or local police and let them deal with it, or advise you on how to deal with it.