Was the deer herd thinned too much?

[Musky Buck]

Agree Hockey, maybe it was the timing of the switch, had really high deer numbers and with 5 tags and basically it's unlimited, it took about this long to thin it to where we are and I feel it easier for muzzy hunters having snow to dial in to where the deer are, not that as nocturnal as they are you'll get 1, but just added pressure in the top muzzy permit area being farmland it can maybe change things some. Zone 4 made you think, do I want 1st crack but only 2 days or do I want 4 days or do I want to forgo party hunting and all-season it by spending 3x as much on a license like for me I didn't bow hunt, but wanted the rifle and muzzy on years when I got shut out rifle hunting. The first couple years of high deer numbers all was great, now I'll be watching permit area 240 really closely over the next 5 year stretch to see if things recover in parts of that permit area. I know dozens of guys who hunt all 9 days whether they did well already or not, they're in the tree and will be with a muzzy also, no 1 is ever done in 240. That is the extra thinning of the herd by guys who already thinned.

[LightningBG]

I'm so confused. First I wasn't supposed to shoot small bucks, because then they can turn into big bucks. Now I'm not supposed to shoot does, because we need more fawns. And we should probably leave the big bucks alone so they can pass on the good genetics.

What to do now? Rabbits?

Truthfully though. I hunted strictly WI this year. Where I am, its unlimited bonus (antlerless tags). I buy half a dozen every year (only $2 a pop), have never used more than 2, but I'll buy another half dozen next year all the same. Who knows why.

But, my group certainly thought the numbers were down. Too many tags given out is what they say. Which is funny, because I saw just as many deer as I always do. Oh, but wait, out of the 6 guys, not a single one came back after lunch on opening day, nor did they come back the next day, or the next week. I on the other hand kept going back out by myself and ended up with a nice doe and an 8pt.

But the herd is hurting over there too... according to them.

[Musky Buck]

You're not confused at all, you buying 6 tags is like many in my area buying 5, now in farmland where bedding/cover is somewhat lean in many sections, it didn't take long to really lower the deer numbers and that's where it is. The herd isn't really hurting so to speak it's just a lot lower than it was a few years back and we compare now to then. It's why the farmland zone or open country zone in MN was zone 4.

[BLACKJACK]

I'm so confused. First I wasn't supposed to shoot small bucks, because then they can turn into big bucks. Now I'm not supposed to shoot does, because we need more fawns. And we should probably leave the big bucks alone so they can pass on the good genetics.

Thats just it, one persons poison is another persons pleasure. Twenty years ago you were a good deer hunter if you shot a buck, even a forkhorn, now you're 'depriving' other hunters of the chance to shoot that buck a few years later when its a 'trophy'. If you shoot 5 does legally, and use them up, you'll still have people calling you a game hog - because they can't or won't shoot that many.

You can't please everybody. Thats why I've kind of went full circle, I used to shoot every deer I saw, its brown its down, then I started thinking maybe I should pass on some small buck, and did, but then after a few years with no venison in the freeze, I said screw what other hunters think, I spend enough time in a tree stand with my bow, that spike is a trophy to me and is going to taste real fine, it just paid the 'deer taxes' for the year.

[arrow]

I think we as hunters got spoiled during the years the numbers were so high. I think the herd is probably where it should be at in many areas of the state. I hunted in three different zones this year and saw what I consider to be a fair number of deer. I can't speak for the southwest where I hear the heard is really down but with so little cover I'm not surprised. I have always believed every deer to be a trophy regardless. The idea of putting a measuring tape to them never has appealed to me personally.

[Musky Buck]

No 20 years ago you weren't a "good deer hunter" where I'm from if you shot a spike, both my grandpa's would say why shoot that runt when there's much larger deer running our farms, this was actually 30 years ago now, shoot a doe if you got lucky in the lottery. Why would they think that way because they each had over a hundred head of cattle on their farms and there was never a shortage of meat and 1 of the 2 was way poor having 13 children, he they had 0 money. There ways extended me into fishing, releasing eater walleye or crappie not a problem, they both preached hard you don't have to get get get. If you can afford the internet and it's not a necessity, you don't need to get get get, save the 500 a year on it and go meat shopping. Hunt more for the fun of it, the challenge of it, and enjoy your friends and family while doing it and if you get some meat or fillets, there you go. The thinned herd in my area, the others better hunt more for the fun of it, the challenge of it, and enjoy your friends and family, the meat part is going to be a little thinner than it was a few years back.

[Bear55]

I think we as hunters got spoiled during the years the numbers were so high. I think the herd is probably where it should be at in many areas of the state. I hunted in three different zones this year and saw what I consider to be a fair number of deer. I can't speak for the southwest where I hear the heard is really down but with so little cover I'm not surprised. I have always believed every deer to be a trophy regardless. The idea of putting a measuring tape to them never has appealed to me personally.

I also agree that the overall herd might be ok, the proplem I see is some very large areas hold very few deer while other large areas have plenty of deer. I feel some areas could sustain a big harvest/harsh winters while others just could not. Im my area we just shot too many does over a 3-4 year period then got hit with a very untimely bad winter or two that put a hurt on the herd. I'm talking close to 97-98 like deer numbers here, not as bad but close.

[Musky Buck]

It must be down quite a bit unless they can fly, the most deer I'm seeing currently are within the city limits of quite a few towns, not that I'm seeing quite a few deer. Fresh snow last night, drove around some of the sections in the area where they always cross the gravels, this morning, never saw a track, but it doesn't mean they needed to cross, but I need to keep scouting around. I'd like to see or find some in the area or what is the conclusion ?

[Musky Buck]

Still trying to find the deer, the deal is they are the mature deer to hunt next fall at least some of them, is the weather/winter why they aren't where they've always been this time of year ? Farming practices ? I know they're good at hiding after Nov. 5th, but now it's Jan. 23rd, I sure hope there just being nocturnal as ever, time to put on a few more miles this wkd and with fresh snow again maybe locate them somewhere in the area. At first glance I'd say #'s are way down, but things aren't always what they appear, it's also prep time for next rifle season, thinned or not now is a good time to check your area and prepare for next year.

[hockeybc69]

I dont think you can simply evaluate the herd by driving around...

I understand that maybe there are areas that in the past would have deer visible from roads and maybe you are not seeing them this year. But this year is a very different winter.

With the little snow we got I would find it hard to believe its going to push deer to move around a lot more than they have been.

But simply driving around? Man, in our area, with the hills you cant see most of the areas from the roads that are hidden by woods and hills.....

[Musky Buck]

Drive around the sections, worked for 25 years of winter deer scouting if you know they tend to cross here or there and have literally like a cows path in places decade after decade, after a quarter century of checking, but yes I'm on hoof also and I think with the way everything is plowed/ bizarre winter, anyway I did find some traffic last night, not many tracks but some

[candiru]

I am in old the zone 4. The all season license hurt our herd pretty bad. After about 6 years of somewhat restrictive lottery the herd locally is looking better. I don't know if it is that way across the whole permit area.

[Rippinlip]

Definately lots of less sightings down around here.

Have many other friends and family all talking about the lack of deer sightings.

[Musky Buck]

hey candiru do you mean the multi-zone buck vs. the all-season tag ? I don't think the all-season tag sold really well, if you were a zone 2 or 1 hunter it seemed the all-season tag wasn't really important because you had so many days, I figured the zone 4 folk so you could hunt 6 rifle days and not 2. Just curious because thankfully everyone I know that all-seasoned we didn't party hunt or cross tag or anything, it saved deer from our hunting party because we could lean on the muzzy if we didn't score rifle hunting, we were more patient letting bucks go we likely would've shot having only a rifle tag, then few if any of us could score on a nocturnal muzzy buck so we burnt our tags often.

[Musky Buck]

Back to the thinned, I've been scouting a lot lately and someone said get out of the truck and scout so I did, put on some miles, the results are the same. 3 areas had 0 deer tracks, fresh or otherwise and area # 4 appears a doe and 2 fawns are hanging in there. Least amount of tracks I've ever seen, my dad said in the closed deer season in the 70's there were 10x as many tracks where I scouted as there is now. Told dad it wouldn't take but 10 deer to have 10x as many tracks. I guess I'm not all that concerned but wondering when or if there will be wintering deer where they'd been year after year ? Last winter was the same except area #4 had roughly 70-80. If Lou is saying deer numbers are at the "goal" then the goal for the areas I'm in are ? This winter has been goofy and I've wondered if others in the farm country are seeing wintering herds or is it some here and some there ? I also took a tour through what I consider the best area in the state and didn't see a 50th of what you'd normally see for sign, my gut feeling says if you thought last fall was tough, hang on, you aint seen rock bottom yet. If some or most of this is true we're lucky we are having this winter this winter. Asked my friend about his herd of 150 animals, he tells me cut that by 3/4's but he has heavy wolves around and they're changing things at his swamp.