Who should the Vikes draft?

[Ybone]

It seems like the Vikings toyed with switching to the 3-4 a few years ago and Jarod Allen was totally upset because he wouldn't be very effective in that scheme.

[MUSKY18]

Look what happened to Aaron Kampman in GB when they switched to the 3-4. He was one of the leading sackers in the NFL the previous year, then they switched and he was lost. Ended up signing with a different team that ran a 4-3. Of course they got Matthews to replace him, but who are we going to find to replace Allen? Thats exactly what would happen if the Vikings went to a 3-4

[FISHINGURU]

You are entitled to your own opinion on schemes but I think the coaches have a little more knowledge than a fan when it comes to developing players and fitting them into a system that guarantees success.

Obviously our coaches are not very good at it.

No one can say if Allen would be good as a stand up 3-4 linebacker, I know he can blitz and he can cover, he's better then any linebacker we've had at it.

Kampman was a couple year wonder, Green Bay's defense is way better now with the 3-4 then they were before, but with your guys logic they should of never switched because that made Kampman no good, his problem is he can't stay healthy.

Mathews is better then Kampman when he's sleeping.

[corncob]

It would seem that the complexion of the team will be drastically different than last year, what with the many new and younger players in the mix, in addition to, a full traning camp and offseason workouts, especially for Ponder, rookies ,and new alighnment on the "O" line.....The defensive line and linebacker crew is the one very grey area for me......I expect improvement or the coaches may need to go under the knife.

[nofishfisherman]

Obviously our coaches are not very good at it.

No one can say if Allen would be good as a stand up 3-4 linebacker, I know he can blitz and he can cover, he's better then any linebacker we've had at it. Kampman was a couple year wonder, Green Bay's defense is way better now with the 3-4 then they were before, but with your guys logic they should of never switched because that made Kampman no good, his problem is he can't stay healthy.

Mathews is better then Kampman when he's sleeping.

Green Bay has the worst defense in the league. How can you say they are way better in the 3-4?

Jared Allen can cover on the very rare occasion when the QB isn't expecting him to drop back into coverage. Put him up against a TE, RB or WR on a regular basis and I bet he gets taken advanatage off more often then not. And ten you get to the issue of taking the best pass rusher in the leauge and dropping him into coverage. How does putting Allen into coverage make you a better football team?

Why don't we move Peterson to punter and Kluwe to RB while we're at it. I mean no one can say Peterson wouldn't be the best punter in the league and who knows maybe Kluwe would be a great RB. Afterall we've never seen either one do it so based on your logic its plausible that they could.

[FISHINGURU]

LOL, now your just being silly.

You don't drop Allen into coverage when you play the 3-4, you give him free range to attack the QB every play without taking on 2-3 players before he gets there. I'm just saying on the plays you do drop him into coverage he can cover better then the linebackers we have. If it don't work out you trade him, not like we are going to win the big game anytime soon.

We made our run it didn't work now we are in total rebuild mode, I feel bad for Jared to even have to play here we should trade him to a team that is one player away and get a few nice picks or a pick and a young player.

If you don't think that Green Bays defense is better after they switched to the 3-4 I don't know what to tell you, stat wise they weren't that good but also they are only a couple years into it and have been riddle with injuries the whole time. They also won a Superbowl with it.

It's ok though, you must be one of them guys that wants to stick to the same thing but expect different results.

In order for the Cover 2 to even begin to work you need constant pressure from the front 4 ONLY. That don't work very well when you only have 1 guy that can get to the QB. Cover 2 barely ever blitzes and the LB's are expected to cover the RB's, TE's, and WR's. Corners are supposed to let WR's go and play there zone while the safety just drops back and make sure no one gets behind them.

Meanwhile all the good QB's and WR's these days pick you apart all day everyday in all the soft spots of your zone. It's beyond easy to read and the QB has all day unless your front 4 are on them like donkey kong non-stop.

It worked for the Giants because they have the best front 4 in football.

We have Jared Allen, that's basically it.

[nofishfisherman]

In order for the Cover 2 to even begin to work you need constant pressure from the front 4 ONLY. That don't work very well when you only have 1 guy that can get to the QB. Cover 2 barely ever blitzes and the LB's are expected to cover the RB's, TE's, and WR's. Corners are supposed to let WR's go and play there zone while the safety just drops back and make sure no one gets behind them.

Meanwhile all the good QB's and WR's these days pick you apart all day everyday in all the soft spots of your zone. It's beyond easy to read and the QB has all day unless your front 4 are on them like donkey kong non-stop.

It worked for the Giants because they have the best front 4 in football.

We have Jared Allen, that's basically it.

Actually based on the stats the Giants do not have the best front 4 in the league. The truth is that the Vikings lead the league last year in sacks so I think its safe to say we brought pretty decent pressure last season. The vikings were also better in rush defense as well and have been consistently in the top ten over the past several seasons.

If you look at the numbers it shows the vikings front 4 is getting the job done. In the end there is only so much the front 4 or front 7 can do to make up for a poor secondary.

I have no problem with change as long as the change makes sense. I just don't see the point in changing the front 4 when thats not where the problem is.

Would you tear apart your basement because you have a leaky roof or would you go directly to your roof and look for the problem?

I say leave the front 4 alone let them rack up another 50 sacks next year and put your time, energy, and money into fixing the secondary which is where the real problem is.

[FISHINGURU]

Seriously? You don't think we have a problem with the front 4? I watch the games our front 4 is not getting it done besides Jared. Kevin has been a mediocre DT for the past few seasons, the other 5 guys they play next to him haven't been very good, Robison is decent I think he's way better then Ray ever was. I personally think Jared and Robison would be good 3-4 LB's.

You can stat it up all you want but there is no stats for QB hurries that lead to turnovers, if you watch football you can see when a D line is good or not,it's more then just how many sacks they got.

Some of the best pass rushers in the game don't get the sacks but they get their team off the field and cause turnovers. That's the main reason DE's don't want to make the switch because their sack numbers will go down.

Our LB's need just as much help if not more then our secondary, the middle of the field is open all day everyday.

[Ybone]

You should contact the Vikings, they probably haven't thought about moving their defensive ends to linebacker. Wait a minute, who would play the defensive ends? Hmm, how about the linebackers, of course, it's brilliant!

[zepman]

Everson G. should be our starting MLB.

Brinkley is an old school smash mouth MLB...we need someone who can RUUUNNNN in the middle!!

[FISHINGURU]

You should contact the Vikings, they probably haven't thought about moving their defensive ends to linebacker. Wait a minute, who would play the defensive ends? Hmm, how about the linebackers, of course, it's brilliant!

Good one Ybone how clever!

When you switch to 3-4 you move your DE's to outside LB's, you move your DT's to your DE's, and you get a beast for your DT. You then have 2 middle linebackers and your other 2 outside linebackers are your DE's.

Or wait, you can keep it the same and expect different results...BRILLIANT!! When we get new coaches you can guarantee we'll drop the Cover 2.

[Born2Fish]

OR how about this...The Vikings already have a gameplan in mind that they are going to use. No matter how much any of us want things this way or that, they are going to do what they want to do! One way or another, they need to do SOMETHING different this year. They have tried to upgrade the secondary this year, and hopefully the new guys they plug in there will do a better job than the guys they had in there last year.

[nofishfisherman]

You sound pretty sure that we have the talent currently on our roster to make the 3-4 work. How often have you seen Allen and Robison drop back in coverage? Maybe 2-3 times last season? Is that enough evidence to prove that they can both excel while playing off the line of scrimmage?

If we had such a bad Dline like you claim how do you expect only 3 of our lineman to hold up against 4-5 offensive lineman if we switch to the 3-4 scheme? After all thats the goal of your 3 lineman, they need to tie up the offensive line so that your LB's can make plays.

If you realistically want to switch to the 3-4 it would likely mean blowing up the entire front 7 and starting over. Which would be fine if you had a patient fan base that was ok with losing for a few more years. Maybe that would be ok in some cases but committing to losing for a few years while making the switch probably isn't in your best interest while you are also trying to negotiate for a new stadium. And if the stadium falls through you could find yourself negotiating with either a new city or trying to sell the team. Doing that all while you are in the middle of dismantling your team and trading away your your best defensive player doesn't put you in the best possible spot as far as negotiating is concerned.

[Juan Grande]

Fishing guru,

We don't have the beast nose tackle that's critical to run the 3-4. Plus, Jared Allen had 22 sacks last year in this scheme and it's hard to imagine him being any more productive in a new scheme. They can move away from the Cover 2 without having to go to a 3-4.

[FISHINGURU]

Born2Fish- No doubt, it don't matter what any of us say it is just for conversation. It's impossible to be any worse then last year, I'd hope.

nofishfisherman- It all went over your head and under your feet. News flash, we are rebuilding right now. The team is being dismantled and put back together as we speak. You honestly believe that our Cover 2 is going to be awesome this year so our fans won't be impatient LMMFAO.

You must not watch the games Jared drops back quite a bit, 2-3 times a season is laughable. He does it way more then I'd like him to running the 4-3, the funniest part is they have him do it on 3rd down. Like I said though you'd have him mainly blitz like Mathews, Suggs, Ware, Harrison, ect.

Go to your stat checker and see what our passing defense has been ranked the past handful of years running our stunning Cover 2. Now more then ever in a passing league you need a good passing defense. Our "good ranked run D" (that everyone just passes on because it's to easy) don't cut it anymore.

Juan Grande- No we don't have that DT on the roster but we did for a few years, and we could of easily drafted one. Again, it isn't all about Jared Allen, Jared Allen was a monster last year and our team sucked. I'd rather have the team be good with Jared at outside linebacker getting 10 sacks then our team sucking and he gets 22.

Sorry guys but with the condition of the defense you could go in any direction, don't give me this we won't be good for a few years if we switch schemes bologna so we can't change.

Dom Capers came into GB and switched the defense into a 3-4 from the 4-3 they ran for 20 years. First year his defense went from 21st to 2nd in the league, 2 years into it they won the Superbowl. So not like it can't be done.

I guess I would just rather have a defense similar to Pitts, Balt, 49er's, ect, then what we run. Some of them run a 3-4 and a 4-3 which would be the best. More blitzing and more playmakers is what we need, that don't happen when QB's and WR's pick apart your zone you run every play.

[nofishfisherman]

nofishfisherman- It all went over your head and under your feet. News flash, we are rebuilding right now. The team is being dismantled and put back together as we speak. You honestly believe that our Cover 2 is going to be awesome this year so our fans won't be impatient LMMFAO.

Where have i ever said I supported the cover 2? If you look back at my posts i've been advocating the entire time for overhauling the secondary. Both players and the cover 2 need to be reevaluated since whatever they have been doing wasn't working.

All I've ever said is that the secondary is the main issue and should be the area we address. For some reason you keep throwing in the fact we'd also need to change to the 3-4 as well. The two things are totally separate issues. I'm not sure what posts you have been reading but you certainly haven't been reading mine very closely.

[FISHINGURU]

It's all good man, Yiggin mentioned our Cover 2 scheme is broke. I agreed and said I wish we ran the 3-4. You came in to tell me 3-4 has nothing to do with Cover 2 which I obviously knew and that's also why I want to switch to it lol, then you asked me why I would want to take our stud defender away from what he does best. Which I tried to tell you my reasoning.

I understand Jared is the best 4-3 pass rushing DE in the game, I was calling the for the Jared Allen trade on this site before most people even knew who he was. Pretty much no one wanted to trade for him because they thought it was to much and he had past drinking problems.

I think he'd be a probowler no matter where you put him, who's to say what he could do coming off the edge unblocked.

It isn't the end of the world to switch schemes, you use your same players you just give them different assignments and then you build from there just like your always trying to do anyway.

This is the boring part of the season, as you can tell we are discussing defensive schemes. The Cover 2 will pretty much be set in stone while Leslie is here.

I'd love to run a 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid, offensive teams would never know what your up to.

[LMITOUT]

Well, now we know why they drafted a kicker...

[Rick]

Green Bay's defense is way better now with the 3-4 then they were before, but with your guys logic they should of never switched because that made Kampman no good.

I believe they had one of the worst defenses in the entire NFL last year with their 3-4.

It's more about the talent you have in whichever scheme you choose to run.

It was a Cover 2 scheme that won the Super Bowl last year.

[FISHINGURU]

Hey it's news flash Rick!! All that was already brought up lol

[Rick]

So, you're now saying you brought up how good the Cover 2 was last year AFTER you were telling us how dominant the 3-4 was over Cover 2?

Show us where you said that, please FG?. lol

[nofishfisherman]

I think he was just saying that the rest of us have already brought up all the logical reasons why the 3-4 doesn't make any sense for the Vikings.

I'm not sure anyone said the 3-4 was better than cover 2 because its an apples to oranges comparision. They are two different things and in theory could be run at the same time.

[MUSKY18]

Green Bay has been winning so many games because their offense is scoring and scoring, while the other team's offense isn't as potent. All they really need is a couple stops from their defense per game. Look at the playoffs, soon as they played a defense that stopped their offense, THEY LOST! Every defense looks good when the offense is putting up 30+ points per game and the other team is pretty much throwing on every down. Was the same way with the Vikings when Moss was a rookie and someone missed their first field goal in the NFC Championship game. The Packers time is coming to an end shortly, wait and see. Teams are going to start figuring out their passing game and shutting it down. They have no running game to speak of. Teams are going to start playing 6 DB's on every down. Doesn't matter if the Vikings play a 4-3 or 3-4....if they don't have the quality players to cover the receivers, we are in the same spot as last year and arguing about who we should pick withe our top 5 draft choice.

[FISHINGURU]

So, you're now saying you brought up how good the Cover 2 was last year AFTER you were telling us how dominant the 3-4 was over Cover 2?

Show us where you said that, please FG?. lol

Come on you Junksonite why don't you just read it's all written down lol?

Your quick to quote one sentence but don't read the rest of the thread where it's all explained. Your post was everything we already talked about for the past couple pages.

I said I wish the Vikings would switch to the 3-4 instead of running the Cover 2.

I said the the reason the Giants Cover 2 works for them is because they have one of the best front 4 in football. Then people brought in stats to try and prove the Giants don't have one of the best front 4 in football.

When you find a line better then Tuck, Osi, Pierre Paul, ect, let me know. Even their backups could be starters.

I said that Green Bay's defense is better now then it was before they switched to the 3-4. Last year they had a bad year, the two years before that they were ranked one of the best with the 3-4 where they were ranked in the 20's before switching for you stat munchers.

[SFC]

LOL, now your just being silly.

You don't drop Allen into coverage when you play the 3-4, you give him free range to attack the QB every play without taking on 2-3 players before he gets there.

Sounds like the 43 but we are pretending its the 34 , sneeky