APR's don't work 100%

[HandGunner]

APR's I believe is just a 50/50... almost shot a spike since i seen it at the last few seconds b4 it walked into the bushes and disapeared, plugged in my ears, grab the firearm, aim, almost to the bushes! WAIT seen some light brown around the head and said forget it, probobly a spike why risk it? well walking around the woods I seen a dead spike, also hearing about spikes being shot mistaken as a doe. So Im thinking would you rather shoot a spike and keep it or shoot it in mistake of a doe and let it rot in the woods? seeing how it is its pretty hard to tell if the deer has antlers or not, takes up a good amount of time to look through a scope or binos and see and even still its hard to tell exactly

anyways we did get one nice 8 with nice tines, other than that I saw nuttin one missed 2 and the other just got the one 8 and busted by a doe, they did not chop the corn around the woods. I believe its on purpose seems like they chop most of their corn except the plots around the woods so us in the state land wont get to see any deer as they will hide in the corn.

[gopher_nation]

Pretty simple, if you aren't sure of your target don't shoot. It really bothers me when people forget about one of the most basic rules of hunting.

[shortfatguy]

I have heard of a few people who shot a doe only to find it was a spike when they walked up on it. They were sure their target was a deer. There is a big difference in knowing if it is a deer and seeing a couple of spindly spikes on it's head at a distance. Not every one can afford good optics and even with a quality scope small spikes can be missed.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Not every one can afford good optics and even with a quality scope small spikes can be missed.

Tell that to the CO when you dont have a legal buck tag.... I have a feeling they hear that excuse a LOT.... One of the rules I learned in hunters safety. Be sure of your target before you pull the trigger. If you dont have good optics, well then by golly dont shoot if you dont know whats standing in front of you. Pretty darn simple.

[HandGunner]

not everyones perfect from what it looks like, not that we dont care even relatives with their sons that are 10-12 tell them to not shoot spikes even though they can.... I can say you need a very clean and clear somewhat high powered bino or scope to tell and clarify if its antlers or not, hard to say what to do they are not going to stop and smell the roses for you plus with all the brush it can be dificult just saying that hearing about it imagine how many ppl could make that mistake and how it would be a sad waste of a deer. other than that a local put out a trail cam and said so manny does are gone probobly because of the APR that he got so manny spikes and bucks on camera that were thinking pretty soon we might have a boatload of nice 8's and 10's not really trophys but maybe better than usual

[shortfatguy]

So you are saying that unless a person can afford a high dollar set of binoculars he shouldn't shoot a doe unless it is standing in bright light at less than 30 yards? Glad I don't live in an area with APR. I do choose not to shoot any buck that is not mature and if I shoot a doe I do my best to be sure it is not a small buck. My point is that with these types of regulations you have to expect some spikes to be taken with out knowledge.

[hockeybc69]

Shortfatdude,

Your argument isnt even an APR argument.

For decades the rules have been as they are today. You shoot game you dont have a tag to legally shoot, you have problems.

Nothing in the rules have ever stated you need top of the line optics to identify your target. And oh, if you dont have the money to buy good optics, well then just shoot and we'll pick of the pieces for you.

Go call a CO and ask them what they would do if you "accidently" shot a legal buck and you didnt have a buck tag to use. They arent going to give you the simple kitchen pass "perpetrator didnt have Swarovski optics to identify his target".

This isnt about optics... This is simply about, KNOW YOUR TARGET BEFORE YOU PULL THE TRIGGER.

[DHost21]

Pretty simple, if you aren't sure of your target don't shoot. It really bothers me when people forget about one of the most basic rules of hunting.

+1

[wannafish2]

Pretty simple, if you aren't sure of your target don't shoot. It really bothers me when people forget about one of the most basic rules of hunting.

+1

[JIvers]

Pretty simple, if you aren't sure of your target don't shoot. It really bothers me when people forget about one of the most basic rules of hunting.

^ This ^

[Jameson]

...Go call a CO and ask them what they would do if you "accidently" shot a legal buck and you didnt have a buck tag to use. They arent going to give you the simple kitchen pass "perpetrator didnt have Swarovski optics to identify his target"....

They aren't? Are you their spokesman? A party member shot a buck during the first early-antlerless season, called himself in, and the CO took the deer not giving my buddy any heat, even told him "everyone makes mistakes." Last fall's cuff and collars also had many mentions of CO's giving warnings for people turning themselves in for shooting an APR buck. Not any warnings were mentioned for those that were caught that didn't turn themselves in, though.

Hunt does with firearms long enough and you will most likely eventually shoot a spiker. It's happened to many hunters.

We can safely shoot a deer without ever studying it's head for a 4" spike. We need to know that it is a deer, and what's beyond it to shoot safely. No need to waste time studying it's head for a 4" spike for safety's sake.

Because I did not want to burn my buck tag on a 4" spike I did study the does extra hard before taking any shots this weekend, but that had nothing to do with safety.

[Musky Buck]

Just kicked this ? some to our group of depends but 20-26 in our group for 30 some years and beyond and we have to our knowledge in 30+ years ever taken a doe that we thought was a buck or a buck that turned out to be a doe. My uncles just laughed at me like look at the head and if you can't tell don't shoot, what you got deer buck fever in you, tried to help your post but got laughed at by the gang.

[Bear55]

Identifying a doe in an APR area is no different than identifying a spike buck in a lotto area, check and double check to be sure what you are shooting. Mistakes will be made but taking a little extra time to id the deer will significantly cut down on those mistakes.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

They aren't? Are you their spokesman?

Jameson,

You took me slightly out of context. I never said they wont issue a kitchen pass. What I was getting at is that they wont simply come out and say its too bad because you dont have good optics. The point that shortfatguy is trying to push is that since people cant afford good optics, that then makes it Ok to make mistakes.

A CO will surely work with you to make things right when you make an honest mistake. But to blame the fact you dont have expensive optics is just downright funny if you ask me.....

[tracker x-2]

Twice this weekend I had my cross hairs on a buck vitals only to second guess and think are those brow tines?? are they an inch long??

o well you gotta pass good deer to get great deer right!!

[goblueM]

IMO, the argument doesn't hold up. It is the same for all hunting - if you aren't sure, don't shoot. Doesn't matter if it is a pheasant flushing into the sun and you aren't sure if it is a rooster, if it's a flock of ducks and you can't pick out the greenheads from the hen mallards, a buck that conforms to APR regs, etc

There aren't excuses, only being accountable for your actions

[chocolab]

heres my take on the APR. your making the people who want the meat suffer for people who want the trophy. If you buy a tag spend a couple hundred bucks in gear and put in the footwork to walk to your stand in the dark you should be able to shoot whatever,(IMO). If your on stand all day saturday and all day sunday and see a spike and want to fill your tag i dont see a problem with that.

also i think with the APR bucks with bad genetics get a pass while bucks with good genetics get harvested early. i was in stand on saturday morning and a huge buck come out of swamp, put my scope on him and counted points. thick mass, long tines but only 6 pts. so bucks like this will get to pass on his bad genes and a one with good genetics but younger will get put down.(just one mans opinion)

what do you guys think?

[JIvers]

"We can safely shoot a deer without ever studying it's head for a 4" spike. We need to know that it is a deer, and what's beyond it to shoot safely. No need to waste time studying it's head for a 4" spike for safety's sake."

In Zone 3, it is not just a question of safety. Hunters here do have to study a deer's head for a 4" spike, as it is not legal here to shoot a deer with a 4" spike. Merely knowing it is a deer is not enough.

There are Antler Point Restrictions (APR) in place in Zone 3; we may not shoot a buck with visible antlers if it does not have at least four visible points on one side.

[JIvers]

heres my take on the APR. your making the people who want the meat suffer for people who want the trophy. If you buy a tag spend a couple hundred bucks in gear and put in the footwork to walk to your stand in the dark you should be able to shoot whatever,(IMO). If your on stand all day saturday and all day sunday and see a spike and want to fill your tag i dont see a problem with that.

also i think with the APR bucks with bad genetics get a pass while bucks with good genetics get harvested early. i was in stand on saturday morning and a huge buck come out of swamp, put my scope on him and counted points. thick mass, long tines but only 6 pts. so bucks like this will get to pass on his bad genes and a one with good genetics but younger will get put down.(just one mans opinion)

what do you guys think?

How do APR stop people from filling their freezer with doe meat?

I'm un-decided on APR myself; the three-year trial is up after next year, I believe. At that point we will hopefully have a better idea of whether keeping APR around is worthwhile.

The only difference it has made for me is that I have had to watch a six-pointer in my timber all bow season, knowing I can't shoot him. But, next year he might be an eight or ten pointer, so who knows?

[chocolab]

If your on stand all day saturday and all day sunday and see a spike and want to fill your tag i dont see a problem with that.

not everyone will see a doe.

[JIvers]

If your on stand all day saturday and all day sunday and see a spike and want to fill your tag i dont see a problem with that.

not everyone will see a doe.

Just to play devil's advocate here (I've shot three antlerless deer in the two years APR have been in effect): should regulations be oriented solely towards people who wish to fill their freezer? There are plenty of deer hunters who don't see a problem with trying to develop a population of larger bucks than we currently have; should their viewpoint be ignored?

Some people may not see an antlerless deer right away...but it is a hunting license that you purchase from the state, not a guarantee to fill your freezer. In my experience, there are a lot more antlerless deer out there than there are spike bucks.

[Jameson]

..You took me slightly out of context. I never said they wont issue a kitchen pass. What I was getting at is that they wont simply come out and say its too bad because you dont have good optics. The point that shortfatguy is trying to push is that since people cant afford good optics, that then makes it Ok to make mistakes.

A CO will surely work with you to make things right when you make an honest mistake. But to blame the fact you dont have expensive optics is just downright funny if you ask me.....

Thank-you for the correction. I think we'd both agree that if a mistake does happen, we would rather have the individual call themselves in than just let the spiker rot in the woods.

Your post and the OP in my opinion send the message that if we do make a mistake and call it in to the CO only bad will happen. Do it over and over and sure the CO is going to put the hammer down, but they have shown they're willing to let a mistake slide. Hopefully if folks do make a mistake they won't let the deer just rot in the woods.

[Musky Buck]

There's the thing eyehunter, the nail was hit right on the head, I wish we had some way whether it's APR or some way to slow down the slaughter of immature bucks, people see a deer and bang, no analyzing the deer just get that scope there and blast, then find a tag, then blast again, everybody in my area wants a deer but even more so they want to shoot and shoot and shoot. The bucks in my area got decimated in 2005, it has not recovered at all, all the trailcams in the area etc. There is 1 decent buck for 19 of us to hunt, several yearlings and many of them won't survive the season, since 2005 many hunters feel desperate in our area to pull that trigger again especially on a buck so some that used to hold out are changing their tune, what was once a great opportunity to get a crack at a decent buck is over, they do not wander in from some unknown place, our trailcamera's in July and August show what is out there and it isn't much. All of us driving around, scouting etc., the doe's in the area would win a big deer contest now.

[Jameson]

...In Zone 3, it is not just a question of safety....

Correct, but I'm sure you can see the thread was headed in that direction.

As someone who has safely shot what I thought was a doe, only to find out it was a spiker I take offense at someone saying I was not hunting safely.

[Musky Buck]

Agreed Jameson. Think about how many deer each year get wounded and never recovered and is there really that many spikers in that part of the state ? I'm in central MN and a spiker is rare, very rare, extremely rare, in farm land here it's Y or basket 6,7,8's even 10's. I'd say out of the last 150 bucks or so on camera I think there was 1 spike but he even had tiny brow tines. Good luck hunting guys, according to my Monday AM updates some big bucks were on the move this morning, friend is dragging a 10pt out right now.