MN Wolf Management - What would you do?

[leech~~]

By the time it's proven, we're screwed. People who are much, much smarter than you are saying "We need to seriously consider this."

Take off the blinder! There's smarter people then both of us on each side saying it is and isn't. In court any doubt means somethings not proven. So, since I'm not that smart I need to watch and see what the smart people come up with and then make my own judgement. Not just believe what the media tells me. Thanks.

[fishfearme]

Kinda like if you hit the brakes too late and you rear end someone. Then think to yourself, if I had only hit the brakes earlier.

There will never be a wolf season in MN, but people should be allowed to defend their property and pets.

[CANOPY SAM]

Call it global warming, or climate change, and whether we're contributing to it or not doesn't really matter. It's happening. There's tons of science available to prove it.

Simple fact: The 10 warmest years in recorded history have occurred in the last 15 years, and the average temp creeps up a little bit each subsequent year. The oceans are warming, and stuff is getting scorched near the equator. The polar ice caps are shrinking, and entire populations of animals are moving to more hospitable climates where they've never lived before (at least that we know of). Is this cyclical, and has it happened before? Perhaps, but there's no denying that something is happening, and it's affecting plant and animal life all over the planet. It's real, whether you want to believe it or not.

As for wolf management, it seems to me these animals would essentially be self-regulating just like most other species. Food becomes scarce they produce fewer pups, die off, or move to another area. Disease, available food, climate, population, etc. etc. etc. These are self-limiting factors that govern the success of a species.

Wolves and deer and moose were coexisting long before we stepped in and decided to "manage" their numbers.

Man's desire to step in and control nature is often amusing. We rejoice in our limited successes, and pat ourselves on the back. Yet we often ignore our miserable failures, and sweep away the negative long-term impact we have on an ecosystem. We hear virtually nothing about the Gulf Oil Spill these days, yet it was the largest man-made global disaster ever - and it was only last year!

There are many good ideas posted in this thread. I'd agree with a limited hunting season for wolves just as a means to create additional revenue for other habitat restoration projects.

[goblueM]

There will never be a wolf season in MN, but people should be allowed to defend their property and pets.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Pretty bold statement.

[LightningBG]

Simple fact: The 10 warmest years in recorded history have occurred in the last 15 years, and the average temp creeps up a little bit each subsequent year. The oceans are warming, and stuff is getting scorched near the equator. The polar ice caps are shrinking, and entire populations of animals are moving to more hospitable climates where they've never lived before (at least that we know of). Is this cyclical, and has it happened before? Perhaps, but there's no denying that something is happening, and it's affecting plant and animal life all over the planet. It's real, whether you want to believe it or not.

Now if we could only see the numbers before they've been sifted and "massaged" then you might have a "simple fact".

[CANOPY SAM]

Not to be argumentative, but would you believe the first hand accounts of the people who live in these regions, and are witnessing first hand the changes that are occurring? I see them where I live.

Like I said, something is happening, whether you want to believe it or not. However, this thread is not written around this topic.

I love that trail cam pic of the wolf above! They're pretty impressive critters.

[leech~~]

Not to be argumentative, but would you believe the first hand accounts of the people who live in these regions, and are witnessing first hand the changes that are occurring? I see them where I live.

critters.

Yes I would! I live in the Minnesota region and it's been one heck of a cold and snowest winters on record! Man, we could use some warming soon!

[fishfearme]

Leech- actually this winter has not been that cold. We are 10 days short of below zero temps on average. Snow yes, but cold no. How the heck does anyone know you are from MN anyway? You claim you are only in a northern state of mind. That could explain alot.

[matchset]

i found this to be interesting....

in contrast to wolves ,most white-tailed deer in Northern Minnesota, up to 85%, are seasonal migrators with high fidelity for distinctly different winter and spring-summer-fall home ranges.... Observed spring and fall migration distances of deer have been ranged from 2-23 miles. (Hoskinson and Mech 1976, nelson and Mech 1981, DelGiudice 1993)

during sever winters of exceptionally deep snow (70+cm), excessive or surplus killing of deer by wolves, characterized as multiple kills made over a short distances and brief periods of time with less than complete or NO consumption has been documented. (Mech et al 1971, DelGiudice 1998)

Scat analyses have revealed much about the year-round food habits of wolves, including that deer are the single most important food, except during winter in the BWCA where they rely primarily on moose (Frenzel 1974, Van Ballenberghe et al 1975, Fritts and Mech 1981, Fuller 1989).

[matchset]

so. if the wolves stay and the deer move..... what do the wolves eat in the winter?

during severe winters (like the one we're in) wolves kill more than necessary.

wolves rely on moose in the bwca....how large is the bwca? how much of the NE moose range is in the bwca?

[rkhinrichs]

well where wolves are located there are no reported cases to the DNR of CWD found in deer so thats a good thing. The wolves pray on the weaker deer that have CWD, before the DNR can find a deer with CWD!!

[CANOPY SAM]

Good intel, Matchset. Sure coulda fooled me about this winter. Seems like it just doesn't want to let go. Maybe I'm just gettin' old, but it seems colder than normal to me.

rkh. You make a great point about predation, and the natural balance of things. That's kind of what I was getting at as well. I believe the presence of apex predators in an ecosystem actually strengthens the pedigree of the herd, and I think there's a pretty significant body of scientific documentation to support this. Survival of the fittest is also more than just a theory.

I think it's only a matter of time when QDM will produce such enormous racked, healthy bucks that the balance of nature will shift. These super-bucks will slice and dice any pesky wolf packs to pieces. Then we won't have to worry about wolf management anymore!

[Bear55]

so. if the wolves stay and the deer move.....

If only the wolves were that dumb, don't worry about them they know where the deer go in the winter. The ones that don't figure it out usually aren't around to tell their friends what a "slow" winter its been.

Canopy

Great idea, maybe we can genetically alter the bucks so they are meat eating wolf hunters. Of course how long before they turn on us?

[CANOPY SAM]

It'd be a lot more interesting knowing what we're hunting is also hunting us!!! Poor wolves...

[maros91]

Theories are never proven. Only supported.

[leech~~]

Theories are never proven. Only supported.

Um, there are two sides to every theory. Those that believe it and those that don't. Once it is proven then it is a fact and not a theory any longer. One thing that is really neat about a free society. We don't have to believe everything we are told! Isn't that cool!

[cbrooks]

It was only a matter of time before they reach the Dakota's. Here is some Sunday reading.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/195753/

[Bear55]

It was only a matter of time before they reach the Dakota's. Here is some Sunday reading.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/195753/

We are very happy to share our abundant wolf population with our neighbors, enjoy.

[cbrooks]

The fact there in North Dakota tells me that there's has to be an abundance in Minnesota.

I have found a coyote rip to shreds down in Grand Forks's greenway by the Red. Chances are very small it could be a wolf but there's always a possibility now.

[mainbutter]

Yes I would! I live in the Minnesota region and it's been one heck of a cold and snowest winters on record! Man, we could use some warming soon!

And yet all the glaciers in Alaska are retreating. The park service has put signs up with years on them, marking where the edge of the glacier was that year, going back all the way to the very early 1900s. It's kind of creepy seeing a sign that says "the glacier extended all the way to this sign less than a century ago", and you still have to drive 5 minutes and walk a half hour to see it.

Also, this hasn't been a cold winter from my perspective. We've had lots of precipitation, but none of those one to two week long cold spells with temps in the negative double digits.

[CANOPY SAM]

Hypothesis, theory, fact - in that order.

Many people forget that Darwin's book, "The Theory of Evolution" is actually just a theory. The title even states this. Our society presents this in public schools as "near" fact. It's very misleading.

As a scientist, and a faithful Christian, I try to remain semi-neutral, but look closely at the preponderance of evidence.

We can't prove the existence of a "higher power", but there is substantial evidence to support the historical documentation.

There is, however, no historical documentation, or current science, to prove that evolution is occurring in any species, other than evolving drug resistance in certain bacterium.

I think it boils down to what we "want" to believe, or disbelieve, regardless of the evidence that stands before us.

At my age, anything below freezing is too darn cold! But that's just me. I'm getting soft and whiny!

Now, something completely different..... The wolf! The Larch! Naughty bits!

[walleyefisher0990]

and yet all the glaciers in Alaska are retreating. The park service has put signs up with years on them, marking where the edge of the glacier was that year, going back all the way to the very early 1900s. It's kind of creepy seeing a sign that says "the glacier extended all the way to this sign less than a century ago", and you still have to drive 5 minutes and walk a half hour to see it.

Also, this hasn't been a cold winter from my perspective. We've had lots of precipitation, but none of those one to two week long cold spells with temps in the negative double digits.

Glaciers have been retreating ever since the last ice age, so the world has been warming for thousands of years...

[caseymcq]

Glaciers have been retreating ever since the last ice age, so the world has been warming for thousands of years...

And here I opened up this thread expecting to read about wolf management

My , looks like the state has a pretty good plan in place now it is just a matter of having wolves delisted and allowing the MN DNR to do its job.

[leech~~]

And here I opened up this thread expecting to read about wolf management

My , looks like the state has a pretty good plan in place now it is just a matter of having wolves delisted and allowing the MN DNR to do its job.

That maybe a cold day in He11! Opp's Here we go again!

[swamptiger]

Quote:

My , looks like the state has a pretty good plan in place now it is just a matter of having wolves delisted and allowing the MN DNR to do its job.

+1.