Tile Tips

[pureinsanity]

Any tile guys out there? tonight im attempting to tile my kitchen. I use to install wood flooring and also have several years under my belt installing paver patios and such.

I got the basics down I think.

To start I am going to apply the thinset directly to the tile so I can see my lines until I get my first few tiles set than I will apply the thinset to the floor. Ive read online that beginners can just put the thinset directly to the tile ensuring direct and even coverage through-out the floor.

The main questions I have is how long does the thinset take to set up before the tiles wont move so easily? How long before we can walk on it? How long before I can remove the thinset from in between the tiles for grouting?

I am using a sanded grout with a 3/16 gap between the tiles. The wife really wants me to use a premixed grout, she even saw a pre-sealed and mixed grout and almost bought it. I told her id rather mix my own and not use pre-sealed to ensure the sealing is done right.

how long should the tile sit before grouting? Typically how long does it take for the grout to cure and how long should it sit before sealing?

Hopefully someone on here is a tile guy and has some good insight for me! THANK YOU!

[CigarGuy]

What's the subfloor?

[IL Res]

Mark your center for the room. Lightly tap a small finish nail into flooring board to locate the center. Apply thinset to floor w/ notched trowel, cover small areas [ 6-8 tiles at a time ], don't put it on tile itself. You should not have thinset oozing up in tile gaps [ the reason for using correct notched trowel ]. Work tile into thinset to ensure proper/ even adhesion. Use correct spacers to maintain desired 3/16" gap. Tiles should be firm in a few hours, but avoid walking on them for 24 hrs.

Grout tile after 24hrs. I'm old school and prefer to mix my own grout. You want the grout mixture to resemble cookie dough consistency, not too wet! It's important that you only grout 4-6 tiles at a time. Remember to wipe excess grout immediatley. Have 2 buckets of water for wiping off tile; 1 for initial wipe, 2nd for finish wipe. Change water frequently. Don't let grout establish a dry haze on tile or you will regret it.

Let grout dry for approx 72hr before sealing.

Hope this helps...

[pureinsanity]

What's the subfloor?

Sadly plywood, redgard applied to it.

I was against it. the gf and her dad said otherwise.

[IL Res]

Should have durock down instead. Plywood will flex w/ time. Tile and joints will eventually fail.

[pureinsanity]

Should have durock down instead. Plywood will flex w/ time. Tile and joints will eventually fail.

I was all set to spend the money on the subfloor, but they wanted it done the fast and cheap way. I said the same thing, but they had their minds set on it otherwise. So this is the way its gotta be.

[CAMAN]

Then, sadly, the tiles are gonna crack and you will be ripping up the tiles again in a couple years and redoing them.

Also what is the structure like below? If the joists aren't large enough it will compound the problem. Bouncy floor = cr@ppy tile job

[pureinsanity]

Then, sadly, the tiles are gonna crack and you will be ripping up the tiles again in a couple years and redoing them.

Also what is the structure like below? If the joists aren't large enough it will compound the problem. Bouncy floor = cr@ppy tile job

the joist are solid. with old tongue and groove sub floor in addition 3/4" plywood on top of that, with so many screws in the floor I got a blister putting them in.

back to the topic at hand. I KNOW this is not the right way to do things, I am aware of this and against it. I am not looking for answers as to the sub floor being wrong. all I can do is say I told you so when the floor needs to be redone.

so can anyone help me with the answers im looking for? not what sub floor should have been put in?

[IL Res]

Wood flooring in kitchen instead? A good 2nd choice IMO. I have it in mine [ hickory ]. Easier to keep clean as well. Dust mop/ vacuum, you're good to go.

[Tom7227]

I got a CD from the Tile Shop and it had all the info you would ever want on it. I actually referred to it a number of times while doing the project. If you have time you may want to stop and see if you can get one. It may also help with the owner if they have a chance to see what the pros recommend.

I would not put the thinset directly on the tiles. Spend the time to lay out the project and use a chalk like or the nail idea as noted above. You have to do some calculating to get the correct layout so you have close to the same width of tiles up against the walls, or at least don't have some terrible problem like having 1 inch at a wall. Find the center of the room and then using your calculations move the first row of tiles to maximize the spacing at the walls.

I'm not doing a very good job explaining it. Get the CD, or check to see if you can find a how to video on line. This Old House has a ton of videos on line and maybe they have some that will help you out.

Good luck. Oh, and have a decent saw at hand to cut the tiles as needed. I never had very good luck with the snap jobberdos you get for cheap. Some tiles are really brittle and they just don't snap cleaning and easily.

[BoxMN]

I'm not tile pro, but a couple things I found when doing my bathroom and shower. It sets up nice and fast, so they hang to wall, don't move around etc. fairly nicely.

For spacers, I used those little "X" type, but didn't put then in corners, as that is a PITA. I used two per side, with the fourth "tab" of the x sticking up. That let me place them easier - it was like a handle - and pull them out easier - again the handle - without disrupting the tile location. Took more of them, but they are cheap Worked pretty good. I am sure there is a better way from the pros...

The wet saw was incredible, and would not do a job without one. Just too darn easy and fast and effortless to cut.

I did have some thinset too deep on one wall, and it oozed out the joint. Fairly noticable, both when you see it happen, but also after it is done, so watch for that.

Good luck, it was actually easier than I thought it would be, and turned out pretty darn nice.

[pureinsanity]

I already have chalk lines set, tiles were already layed to to make sure it comes close when going into important areas such as main doorways. I have a snap saw, tile nippers and a wet saw (which I will be using just the wet saw)

I too will be setting the spacers in vertically and using more rather than setting them in and having to dig them out later.

I have many years installing wood floors and paver patios and some brick work. So this should be a breeze for me.

I just want to know what the dry time is and how long before it should be walked on and how long before sealing grout.

So thank you IL Res for answering my question.

[Eckie]

I recently did my bathroom, and tiled the shower walls and the bathroom floor. My tip of the day (other than agreeing with Box on a wetsaw) is to buy cheesecloth -- it's AMAZING at wiping off the "haze". No more rinsing sponges, then rinsing sponges, oh, and then rinsing sponges again. I could let the grout dry without panicking. Had a few pkgs of cheesecloth handy, wipe off all the grout. Then, use a damp sponge to wipe clean. Works great!

[pureinsanity]

I recently did my bathroom, and tiled the shower walls and the bathroom floor. My tip of the day (other than agreeing with Box on a wetsaw) is to buy cheesecloth -- it's AMAZING at wiping off the "haze". No more rinsing sponges, then rinsing sponges, oh, and then rinsing sponges again. I could let the grout dry without panicking. Had a few pkgs of cheesecloth handy, wipe off all the grout. Then, use a damp sponge to wipe clean. Works great!

Thanks for that tip! I was looking at a grout bag as well, but figured id rather get more with the float in there than not have enough go in from the grout bag.

[cavalierowner]

I found what you want to be reasonably sure your tile will be OK over a plywood floor. This is assuming that you don't have excessive deflection. The setting method you want is TCNA (Tile Council of North America) F152-09. Basically you embed Schluter Ditra in a settng bed of latex modified thinset and then your tile setting bed for the tile goes over that. Do NOT use any kind of premixed thinset or grout, that stuff is expensive and is junk! BTW TCNA is the standard that is used in both commercial and residential tile construction. Absolutely no tile method is acceptable in my office unless it has a TCNA method number.

[daylate]

pureinsanity- you can walk on your floor first thing in the morning. I would grout right away in the morning. If you haven't already set the floor I would trowel out on the floor and backbutter the tile. All floor tile should have a subfloor of 1 1/4" thick. (except DITRA as stated above) This may give you the strength to make up for an inedequate subfloor.

As stated earlier seal after 72 hours and apply 2 coats. Also when you seal wipe tile off with a dry towel before sealer dries. If you don't it may leave spots.

Good luck!

[Pat K]

If you place the tile down tight to the other tiles, then slide it out the 3/16" you won't have any thinset in the grout line. Unless you use quickset like others have said it is 12 hours till you can walk on or grout. Then 72 hours before sealing. The water based penetrating sealers are easier to work with and last longer than the silicone ones do.

[Stratosman]

lots of good tips so far, I always trowel the thinset on the floor then burn a coat on to the back of each tile, this ensures maximum contact and bond to both surfaces. Also don't skimp on mortar quality especially in your situation with the sub prep... A highly modified mortar has a better bond strength and allows for more flex. When grouting, only one pass over the tile with the sponge at first. Too much water can bring out effloressence in the grout. Wait for it to dry then hit it again.

Don't use spacers either, chalk you lines and trust your lines. Spacers only compound the issues of unequal tile sizes (which is common).

Good luck.

[daylate]

Pure, Howd it go?

[pureinsanity]

Got most of it done, Got a couple places to do, like some how get tile and grout under a radiator that is only 2 inches off the ground? Also the person who borrowed me their tile saw had to take it back for a project of their own. So I have a bunch of cuts to make as well.

[daylate]

Nice work, and your still married?

[FishLocker]

Nice work.

Complex cuts I always used a dry diamond blade on my angle grinder. Nice to make curves with too.

[pureinsanity]

Nice work.

Complex cuts I always used a dry diamond blade on my angle grinder. Nice to make curves with too.

Thats a good idea. How much does one of those usually run? and how long will it last? I have to make some cuts around the radiator pipes and I would love being able to get a nice circle cut instead of using a nippers.

and yes im still married, well im not married but we're still dating.

[pureinsanity]

well Id like to be able to cut tile period! My friend still is using his tile saw. She and I both want it done so we can grout and move in!

[Tom7227]

The angle grinder can cost I suspect from $75 on up and you can get the blades for around $5, maybe a bit more. You probably can get away with just one but if you get two you may avoid another trip to the store.

I bought a circle cutting bit when I did my tile job and it was great for the pipes leading to the sink.

As far as the radiator - can you take it out and do the floor? That very likely will make for a better floor job. But then you've got all the plumbing issues and jacking around draining the system etc.

Home repairs/projects never get simpler than you planned.