Snow depth and winter deer mortality

[lakevet]

Read article in latest D & DH mag about deer popuation cycles and old man winter's effects. A rule of thumb is that snow depth over 18" for over 50 days will result in substantial deer mortality. Snow in the field and in the hardwood woods around me is 19" to 21". Under the balsam patches it's 10-12". Looking at snow depth maps shows that MN has way more snow than other big bucks states. Most of Wisc and Iowa have way less snow. Here is the link to snow depth maps

www.ncdc.noaa.gov/snow-and-ice/recent.php?period=c&region=21&submitted=Submit

Stark contrast compared with other major deer hunting states.

At least the wolves have to work to catch a deer since no crust for wolves to run on yet. Article was by a Ontario Biologist who also feels some wolves target big bucks specifically because they are run down from the rut and stink like bucks so easy for wolves to smell and locate at greater distances. After a bad winter with timber wolves as part of the equation, big bucks numbers are very depressed.

Article also says best time for trophy bucks is the time period when the deer herd is rebounding from a bad winter(s). I believe this is for northern forested areas. At this time deer pop is low and food is abundant (no overbrowsing). Trophy bucks show up at young ages. Bucks don't get as run down. The biologist who examined Milo Hanson's buck estimated bucks age at only 3.5 years. This also fits with some of my relatives oral history of shooting lots of big bucks in the 1950's during the early stages of a herd rebound. These older relatives now in their 80's and 90's say that at the tail end of that rebound was the highest they ever saw the deer population get in our area. Then old man winter took it away and it was back to working hard to get a deer.

Just a reminder that zone 1 is different than zone 3 when talking about statewide regulations.

lakevet

[hockeybc69]

sure glad I have 4 acres of standing corn and 3 acres of standing beans on our land.

Cant wait to go check the cams next weekend to see whats around.

[Bear55]

I expect hunting to be very very slow in NE MN next year. I am hearing a lot of reports of dead deer already, not a good sign this early in the winter. We are going to need a very mild spring or we could see some late 90's hunting again. I remember you were lucky to see a deer after bad back to back winters in 96-97.

[hockeybc69]

Here is the current WSI.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/hunting/deer/wsi_map11.pdf

[BobT]

I hunt in the NE and I don't recall bad years in the late 90's. We've been hunting the same area for over 20 years and haven't gone home empty-handed yet. Oh boy, now I've done it. Maybe I just compare my years to a different reference 'cause I recall the 70's and 80's which were by far much worse. Started hunting deer in 1971 and didn't get my first one until 1981 and I can count on one hand the number of deer and flags I saw during that 10-year span.

[Bear55]

BobT

Where do you hunt? There were back to back bad winters, I want to say 96/97 and 97/98 but I might be off on those dates. Deer populations took a beating in the NE.

I remember hunting be slow in the 80's and ramping up to great years in the early 90's, late 90's snow and low deer numbers again and then bouncing back throughout the 2000's.

[BobT]

I know about the winters you're referring to but maybe we were just lucky or something. I hunt near Mt. Iron. It was buck only through that period with no lottery if I recall.

[Bear55]

It could depend on your specific area, we got hit hard those years and everyone I talked to (covering several counties) also had bad years in the late 90's. I hunt a little over an hour NW of Mountain Iron so yes the same general corner of the state but the snowfall could have been different.

[harvey lee]

The depth of the snow will create issues for the deer herd. My fear is that if we get some serious cold temps, that will really harm the herd.

In North Dakota where I hunt, the snow depth is terrible and now the sub zero temps are coming into play.

We were going to feed the deer hay but since we cannoit find 30-40 round bales and then get them into the fields due to the deep snow, they are going to have to fend for themselves.

We were very fortunate for the past 10 years as the deer herd was big and maybe too big for the food available throughout the winter.

I guess Mother nature will be in charge this winter.

[pureinsanity]

Here around the south metro we could use a few less deer, not that id wish death upon them, but maybe they should migrate south for the winter????

[Bear55]

Here around the south metro we could use a few less deer, not that id wish death upon them, but maybe they should migrate south for the winter????

Do you want to swap some deer for wolves? Sounds like win win!

[Big-Al]

Quote:

At least the wolves have to work to catch a deer since no crust for wolves to run on yet.

I have seen wolf tracks that are staying up from the crust that has developed from the rain/ice around the new year. The deer are having trouble with that same crust. The CO reports are indicating dog problems already.

[jerkbait]

The bad winters in the 90's were 95-96 and 96-97. The local CO said that those 2 winters killed 70% of the deer herd up here. Made for tuff hunting. As far as the wolves they have the advantage in the deep snow with their big paws, act like snow shoes, exspecialy if there is a crust. The deer's small hoof will break through and the wolf will stay on top of the snow.

[harvey lee]

Coyotes will also take their fair share in non wolf areas.

[nonteepical]

[reinhard1]

where was this picture taken? that is some deeeeeeep snow. good luck.

[fivebucks]

That picture made the rounds on here last year or the year before. Don't know where it is supposed to be.

[nonteepical]

i don't know where it is , but i wouldn't want to be the one cuttin' trail!

[lungdeflator]

Around Bemidji here it seems like we get some snow every day or every other day. Sometimes just a snifter but it adds up. Im measuring a pretty consistant 27-30" out in the fields by out place and a little less in the woods. There was around 150 acres of clear cut, maybe a little more around us all done between the end of Nov.-beginning of Janurary. I also have a round alfa alfa bale out. Im hoping thats enough food for most to survive the winter but with the snow getting deeper and deeper its going to get tough even in the clear cuts

[hockeybc69]

If we didnt have that all day heavy rain a few weeks ago, we would have snow like that here at home.

If it had snowed, we would still be digging out. It absolutely poured at times.

[harvey lee]

These cold temps coming in now will also hurt big time. Some deer I am sure will burn more calories to get to some feed than they will gain by eating it.

The snow depth makes it tough and the cold temps may finish the weak off for sure.

Then come spring with all the water in the low lying areas, if we have cool temps and wet areas, many deer could become sick with pneumonia.

This looks to be a very tough winter for our deer herd in some areas.

[reinhard1]

i have seen what's depicted in the picture, watching a show on yellowstone showing the harshness of winter there. good luck.

[reinhard1]

same for partridge with the rain that was had earlier to form a crust. partridge dig in deep in the snow to keep their body temps up. good luck.

[archerystud]

It's looking like a bad year for wildlife that is for sure. Here is hoping to a very early warm up.

Also seemed like the pheasants had been making a decent comeback in my area. Doubt I'll be hearing as many rooster cackles next year.

[lakevet]

I hunt in the NE and I don't recall bad years in the late 90's. We've been hunting the same area for over 20 years and haven't gone home empty-handed yet. Oh boy, now I've done it. Maybe I just compare my years to a different reference 'cause I recall the 70's and 80's which were by far much worse. Started hunting deer in 1971 and didn't get my first one until 1981 and I can count on one hand the number of deer and flags I saw during that 10-year span.

I started just after you, also in NE MN. If I am not mistaken the MN deer season was closed in 1971, so if you started deer hunting that year.....

We got deer in the 70's and 80's, but had to hunt very hard the whole season. Dad would write me a note so I got out of the better part of 2 weeks of school. Teachers would let me work ahead so when the principal would question why I was gone, the teachers would say "he has his work done already". Not many deer but also few hunters in those pre-GPS pre-4 wheeler days. Could chase a deer 2 miles across public land and get it. Never see another hunter except another relative. Those were the days. Now in that area you can't go more than 200 yds max before seeing a hunter gutting out the deer you chased to them. I will always prefer a low deer density low hunter density situation, partly because that is the way and the situation I was raised to hunt in. No fun to get your deer right away and have to go cut wood, or worse, go back to school

Deer numbers were down after bad winters of 94-95 and 95-96. We had recently switched to muzzy and it was TOUGH hunting. We only had 20% success the second bad winter, all time worst year for our family since I started hunting. Much of that had to do with it being muzzy season and we hadn't figured out all the ins and outs of it yet.

This winter will do damage if it stays like this into April, esp snow depth. These kind of winter show the importance of thermal cover like Balsam, spruce and esp cedar. Snow depth is less under that type of cover and trees provide a warmer habitat. Cedar is the only winter browse that deer can actually gain weight on in the winter. Cedar forest regeneration in MN is very poor due to deer over browsing. Tough winters drop deer pop and can help winter habitat recover. However a good thaw and not much more snow and the deer may sail right thru.

lakevet