BALLOONS AND FISHING.

[SCUMFROG]

Ok. I heard this yesterday and almost fell over. Some guys I work with were telling me that the frist sunny or crappie you catch you tie a balloon to it and watch were it goes. It'll lead you right to the school of fish. I would never do this. I was just wondering if any one has ever heard of this before?

[Guest]

OMG
Actually, I have seen someone do this...not too smart..when they got done, they just motored over and grabbed the "judas fish"..for lack of a better term...as their last fish. It seemed to work, but I'm sure it's highly illegal as well as unethical.

I think I saw it on a fishing show once too, but can't remember who it was.

[jigglestick]

say what you will, but i too am curious as to how one can make an ethical distinction between this balloon method,which the practice
of has not proven itself here to be benificial,and the use
of modern day flashers, g.p.s.'s and underwater cameras. not to mention remote controlled trolling motors or gas powered motors for that matter.
if you want to make that claim, then support it, and do not throw in the legal status of this issue as a crutch to do so .
how many fisherman/women use the underwater camera now when they see a bunch of marks to determine if they are walleyes, or suckers, and then move on if they are not, or harvest them if they are walleyes.i assume since this is legal then this is ethical? what if the court/legal system turns the
law around, banning the use of cameras, would this then be un-ethical? would the people have committed un-ethical acts in the past when it was at one time considered ethical?

------------------
an "all chapters, charter member" jigglestick I.B.O.T.#5 have you clamped today???

[B-bear]

Not trying to pick a fight but let me ask you. Would guys think it ethical to tranquilizer dart a deer and then radio collar it so you could find it and shoot it in the fall?

[JP Z]

I would have to say that would be unethical, mainly because you would tranquilize it before the season opens and then attach the collar. Therefore it would be illegal, especially because they generally don't want you to harrass wildlife. That and this is really bad, cause you just track it and whack it. Not a lot of fair chase. At least with Ballooning, you still have to try and trigger the fish to bite.

------------------
Tight Lines,

JP Z

[musky hunter]

This practice is unethical because you are taking away the fishes advantage of being unseen. It's illegal because once you put a "balloon" on a fish, it no longer is in you're possession.

[Dave]

I just think it'd be fun to watch where it goes.

[Guest]

There is a BIG difference between using technology that is not intrusive or harmful to any type of lifeform such as a camera, flasher, whatever, in comparison to catching a fish, hooking it AGAIN either behind the dorsal or in the lip, then letting it swim away, struggling to pull a balloon down for the purpose of following a school. What happens if one is unable to catch the fish again once you ballon it? Is it going to die a a normal death or will it be a drawn-out affair? I think you know the answer.

Causing your prey, weather it be ducks, fish, deer, or whatever, undue suffering is UNETHICAL in any true sportspersons book. And if you see otherwise, then you are just feeding into PETA's or any other crazy animal rights groups ammunition that we're just a bunch of sadists.

THATS why I see it as unethical.

[friendlyfisher]

I have never heard of balloning before. I have to say it sound like a neat trick, but it also sounds like it is the right way to do things. Thats all i have to add, I like haveing the skill it takes to find and catch fish. I can only imagine what this would start. Possibly dozens of fishermen with balloons on every spring crapie and sunny lake. It would be mass histeria and not fun.

[so haaad]

Would it be illegal if you attached another string or line to the balloon to prevent the fish from getting away? Kind of like a very long stringer with a balloon attached to it? It would seem by using this method, you would be keeping the fish in your possession. Or, is there a maximum length one can use for a stringer?

[Guest]

I would guess that they might consider that using a gamefish as bait...balloon=bobber

[ChuckN]

How unethical this whole idea is, I'm sure the CO would charge someone with something...

-If you hook a fish with some sort of line, I would think that there's your one line in use. You can't fish with another line.

-Or using game fish as "bait" is unlawful. A hooked fish and released can still be bait for another creature.

-Or angling with an unattended line, set line, trotline is unlawful.

If you need to resort to this kind of practice to help catch fish, you definitely need help.

[doubleUcubed]

Hmmm, I'm gonna side with Tom on this one. I guess I look at it as once the fish has been caught and put back into the water it's going to go to the "safety" of the shcool of fish. Is this unethical? Most people's gut instinct will tell them!

[can it be luck?]

How about this. Catch a crappie using a hook and bobber, then leave it in the water to swim back to the school. Use the bobber in place of the balloon. Most states other than MN allows more than 1 line. When fishing MN, switch off with your buddies every few minutes. Catch one, pass pole, look for bobber, catch one, pass pole, look for bobber, pick up anchor, chase bobber!

------------------
http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[SCCO9803]

Any of you ever seen the Jaws where the old fisherman ties the barrels to Jaws?

[JP Z]

Tom has very good points. I was just pointing out at least with that you still have to trigger the rest of the fish. But yes, causing undo stress/strain to the fish would be unethical. Nobody else mentioned anything on the deer though hmmmmm.

------------------
Tight Lines,

JP Z

[jigglestick]

to bad about the thumbs down thingy. just trying to anylize the different points of view here. and by the way don't think for one minute that ballooning IS my point of view. just kicking around an interesting topic that was brought up by someone else.
i guess that point about undue suffering, i could buy into that. however nobody ever said it would be two feet of line,it could be 25 feet or longer. the idea is to still see where they are going. not to watch the balloon disapear. kind of defeating the purpose. and who said that the fish would have to be "hooked" maybe there would be a way to "tie" it on. and what if an ice buster was useed. i bet they wouldn't even notice it.
if i had a balloon on a fish, i certainly wouldn't be dumb enough to try to catch it on hook and line again, i would simply grab the balloon and haul him/her up.
i agree with the undue suffering point, but isn't that in essence what we are doing each time we go out and catch and release?
more than one way to look at things all the time. that is the beauty of america!!
dave, you must be as sick as me

no, i will not quit practicing c & r, and yes i will not put balloons on fish.
c & r = good
balloons on fish = bad
vexilars = good
bigger fish in goose's livewell = bad

------------------
an "all chapters, charter member" jigglestick I.B.O.T.#5 have you clamped today???

[This message has been edited by jigglestick (edited 04-13-2004).]

[Blackstarluver]

If you consider angling a game, using the "balloon method" would just simply be cheating!
The barrels on the shark in jaws were to tire the fish out to land it. Like Tom said, just 'cause something is legal doesn't mean it is ethical. Basically the law is in place to protect a__holes.
God lyk!

[Guest]

Ya know what..........

At first statement here, I agree that balloon's are not right. But that is a personal feeling that I have, for it is something that I don't need to do or use to catch fish.

Also, I'm strong is supporting and taking care of our game (fin, fur, feather). No, I'm not a game pig.........

However, calling it ethical or unethical is by whose rights? What might feel right or wrong in your book, doesn't make it right or wrong.

I'm tired of "that is not ethical". Who are you to judge?

Flasher's 20 years ago, where considered unethical. So were camara's 5 years ago. Look at all the lobbying that took place to try and prevent these tools from being used???

Go down south......... They can use balloons for sunnies, 10 poles for crappies, sunfish for catfish bait, dogs for deer, and lots of other things, that is considered "unethical" up here to your standards. Why, because in Minnesota (as someone said) everything is illegal, plus you have millions of fisherman creating pressure (plus jealousy because they catch more fish than you).

Yes, hurting an animal is unethical, if it means torturing it. However tying a balloon on a fish, (after you just set the hook on it like it was a muskie ((ripping it's jaw, or tearing its guts because the sunny swallowed the hook)) is not hurting a fish, especially if you are keeping it for the fry pan. How about stabbing that minnow with a hook for bait to catch the fish??? Is that unethical??? You are creating un-due harm to a poor little fish to catch a bigger fish!!! Who are you to judge if treating the minnow is right or wrong for ethics?

If this is unethical, then so is a fawn bleat call that you use during deer hunting. Have you ever watched the stress in a doe's eyes when you blow that bleat. She looks like she is going to cry.........but that ain't unethical. Hell, that is a tool that you need to harvest these animals!!!!!!!!!

Get off the ethical/unethical dump. Be more concerned with the following the rule books. That is your guide to ethics, and if there is something in there that isn't to your liking, then write the dnr and lobby it.

Ethics........jeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzsssssssshhhhhhh.

Can "you" honestly say "I'm ethical" with your $30,000 boat, $3,000 in graphs and GPS (don't forget the mapping system with 1 foot contours, $500 camera (to see if they are suckers or walleyes), $200 rods (that are so sensitive, they can feel a fish breathe on them)???????? (Rats!!! I forgot the $40,000 SUV)

What I see today, is that fishing has become a sport worse than golf. If you don't have all the "goodies" up above, you aint' squat!!!!!! Walk into Gander Mountain, and look at all the tackle they have. That is not ethical.

So, what I see here is, if you have, say........$100,000 to buy all the goodies to catch fish, that is ethical. However, if you come up with a million dollar idea, that doesn't cost any money, then that ain't professional, (whoops, did I say "professional") I mean ethical.

------------------
Let 'em go so they can grow!!!

[BDR]

Big G- Nice signature is that ethics?

[This message has been edited by BDR (edited 04-13-2004).]

[Guest]

Sure it is!!!!!!

------------------
Let 'em go so they can grow!!!

[Blackstarluver]

Ethics are simply how we judge right and wrong. They are how we behave. You can be a consequential ethicist, whereas you only make decisions on whether or not you will get caught doing something wrong. To say, "I won't steal that lure because I very possibly will get caught" is an example of consequential ethics. There are non-consequential ethicists, these are golden rule people. They do the right thing because, simply put, it is the right thing. Doing good deeds merely for the sake of doing good w/o considering whether or not they will get a reward is an example of altruistic non-consequenctial ethics. You also have the existentialists who believe that the only person responsible for ones actions is themself. This ideology was begun by a depressed swede and a disenchanted frenchman.
Ethics I suppose are subjective. If they weren't we wouldn't need police and lawyers.
God lyk!

[deadeye]

All i have to say is that at least he kept it and counted it as part of his bag limit. And another thing, it isn't that much different than juglining which is done all over south of here. Unethical? depends on your upbringing and opinion. Legal? not here but just about everywhere else.
><>deadeye

[Brother Bro]

Diddo Big G-

Nicely put.....

------------------
Brother Bro

Work Less Play More

[Dynasty]

I have just heard of this and will never do it. But it got me thinking, if you catch a sunny why would you need to tie a balloon to it to find the school? You already caught one, they are almost always in schools so the school would be pretty close to where you caught the first one, wouldn't you think?

Plus a sunny struggling under a balloon would probably just attract northerns or bass, scaring away the rest of the school.