Now what do you think of the zone 3 antler restrictions

[Musky Buck]

Some say they want the bigger bucks doing the breeding or most of it, well in 1 of my areas 90% of the does are likely bred by yearling bucks as there are very few mature ones around, the bachelor groups prove this each summer and if a decent 1 or 2 get dropped during the bow hunt that's a huge % of the mature bucks in the area, the APR is to try to protect half of the yearling bucks that typically would be gunned down. Wish all my land was in the APR zone, why not the last 5 years have been awful anyway not in the APR area, I'd be game.

[John478]

I have no drought in my mind that if you surveyed any number of deer hunts and asked them if they would like to see more mature bucks the answer would be yes (meat hunter or not)

I took one of these surveys (I think it was in 2005) I do not remember exactly how I answered but I’m sure some where along the line I said I would like to see more mature bucks.

Yes it’s been pointed out here that the majority of hunters zone 3 where in favor of APRs, but of those hunters how many actually know how hard it was going to be to actually count points. I will be willing to bet in couple of year the numbers will not be so high.

As I mentioned in pervious post I past on a buck that I’m 90% sure was an 8 point or better but I could not tell for sure. So how many legal bucks do I have to pass on before I can take one?

Last year I shot the biggest 8 pointer of my life but at the time I shot him in the low light if I had to count points I could not have be certain he was a 8 pointer. My bother in law also shot a nice 10 pointer last year but admits at if he had to count points he would not be able to be sure he was legal.

Half way though the first week of the firearms season the DNR reported that 9 people had turned them shelves in for shooting a buck that was not legal If 9 people turned them shelves in then there where probably 90 that accidentally shot illegal bucks. Now I will be willing to bet that most of these people where hunters that where for the most part law abiding people.

Now the DNR confiscated these deer and probably gave them to a food shelve that found a microscopic piece of lead in it and though the whole thing in the trash

[james_walleye]

Not trying to start something but alot of guys are saying how great it will be in 3 or 4 years and I will bet my last dollar that these same guys will be the ones saying that there are to many hunters in this area because of what these APR have done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you cant please evryone at the same time no matter what is done.

In places where APR's have been instituted in the past there has NOT been a mass migration of hunters after a couple years. So i will gladly take your bet.

[Musky Buck]

Can't even get through 1 try at something before it's a problem, give it 3 years, so you can't shoot a 1 pointer to a 6 that's fair on square to all in the area, that's what our party has been doing for 20 years, no yearling bucks or you're done, mass hunter what cmon, so the leaving mass wants to be able to dust off the yearling bucks, I'm glad the DNR is trying to break the cycle of people just blasting off anything with horns, praying my area is next so we can hopefully get some balance in the herd again, deer stands out number the bucks in my area 5 to 1 and chances are 3 out of 5 guys will blast that forky so I pray for a buck next rifle season that shed a rack the previous winter and other guys are praying their buck fawn will make it to next year as a fork, the cycle continues and no I've never scored 1 out of the 25 bucks I've taken, I'm not impressed by deer hunting shows, we just can't hardly see at any time of the year a decent buck, velvet or not, why is that? Dad hasn't shot a buck in 20 years, why because there's like few decent ones around if any, there used to be so what changed ? Give it a try down there, if you want I would consider swapping properties with a zone 3 guy anyone game ?

[DHost21]

Can't even get through 1 try at something before it's a problem, give it 3 years, so you can't shoot a 1 pointer to a 6 that's fair on square to all in the area, that's what our party has been doing for 20 years, no yearling bucks or you're done, mass hunter what cmon, so the leaving mass wants to be able to dust off the yearling bucks, I'm glad the DNR is trying to break the cycle of people just blasting off anything with horns, praying my area is next so we can hopefully get some balance in the herd again, deer stands out number the bucks in my area 5 to 1 and chances are 3 out of 5 guys will blast that forky so I pray for a buck next rifle season that shed a rack the previous winter and other guys are praying their buck fawn will make it to next year as a fork, the cycle continues and no I've never scored 1 out of the 25 bucks I've taken, I'm not impressed by deer hunting shows, we just can't hardly see at any time of the year a decent buck, velvet or not, why is that? Dad hasn't shot a buck in 20 years, why because there's like few decent ones around if any, there used to be so what changed ? Give it a try down there, if you want I would consider swapping properties with a zone 3 guy anyone game ?

+1 I completely agree and am willing to trade anyone that doesnt want to count points as well!

[Bear55]

+1 I completely agree and am willing to trade anyone that doesnt want to count points as well!

Hmmmm maybe you guys can start a "land for trade" thread. I am sure there are a bunch of upset meat hunters in zone 3 that might go for it.

[harvey lee]

I do not know if one can judge how well the APR works after a few weeks of hunting in one season.

Maybe it would be better to let it play out for a few years and give it time for some real results.

The ranch our group hunts on, we do not shot anything less than an 8. It's either a nice deer or we let it go. Seems to work fine for our group doing it on our own.

We always seem to have some nicer bucks around every season with some season being much better probably due to the severity of the winter.

[HandGunner]

i was an exsemption so i was able to harvest a spike. saw 2 spikes shot one and missed a doe. one group member had a barley legal buck the ranger said he didnt want to see another one like it and the reply the ranger got was "wen a deer comes out ur full of adrenalin and wen i looked thru the scope and counted the points on the one side i could see i saw 4 and took the shot, what am i supose to do? take about a min to try and measure it?"

lots of spikes were seen and passed up meaning that could have been the only thing you saw on firearms openner. some were unhappy about it some didnt care.

another thing to add is some ppl are saying they pass up deer all the time, but some are private land hunters and guess what, its a dif story when u hunt public land

lastly my last thaught is yea more bigger bucks but in this case not age but only racks and im sure once they reach legality range they will all be shot already so that dosnt neccesarily mean there will be big racks out there

[surewood]

I hunt public land and pass up many young deer. The only thing I see that changes on public land vs private is the attitude if I don't shoot it someone else will. Some people have a negative attitude towards the hunting quality of public land. Thing is, we are the public. We've craeted the quality. People don't like it, change the way you hunt it. It starts one person at a time. If you don't care fine. To each their own.

[Gordie]

I hunt public land and pass up many young deer. The only thing I see that changes on public land vs private is the attitude if I don't shoot it someone else will. Some people have a negative attitude towards the hunting quality of public land. Thing is, we are the public. We've craeted the quality. People don't like it, change the way you hunt it. It starts one person at a time. If you don't care fine. To each their own.

Thats another type of QDM

quality deer meat

much like APR

another pointless reason

[harvey lee]

I will agree that public land would be tougher than the private. I guess I have been so lucky to hunt private land all of my life that I never considered this.

In regards to stopping to count and or look at the rack b4 shooting, it is the law that one has to do it. If there are dead deer lying in the woods due to the fact that they were not large enough, that's not the fault of APR, that is the fault of the hunter for shotting b4 he knew what he was shooting at.

One has to follow the rules and not say, oh well, I will shoot and count later. You are only ruining your future deer hunting along with everyone else's.

[harvey lee]

I hunt public land and pass up many young deer. The only thing I see that changes on public land vs private is the attitude if I don't shoot it someone else will. Some people have a negative attitude towards the hunting quality of public land. Thing is, we are the public. We've craeted the quality. People don't like it, change the way you hunt it. It starts one person at a time. If you don't care fine. To each their own.

Well stated surewood.

[Gordie]

Time will tell the outcome of APR and QDM It does work and it does have a proven track record in other states so time will tell but if the rules are not followed like you say Harvey Lee then it could be long hard battle

[#fishhunt#]

Since I only bowhunt, if I dont like a zone I will hunt another. I would consider myself a meat hunter and I hunt all zones. I had a 5 point last weekend bowhunting at 8 yards walking around in front of me. It was fun to watch. The body was huge. Saw 2 other 6 pointers this year also on the same private land. Took a 7 point earlier so I would not have been able to shoot the 5 point anyway. Like elwood said, time will tell....and I can't wait for next year to see if the quality of the bucks increases....Then I will give an opinion.

[Bear55]

Well said surewood, I have easily passed up 60-80 bucks on public land in the past 10 years, and many of them were nice two year old 8 pointers so it can be done if you are willing, love to hunt, and put your time in. I agree to each his own, but if you really want to get a larger deer you have to let the little ones walk. Most of the deer I pass up probably get shot but I bet some of them sneak through the cracks too. One reason meat hunters don't shoot a lot of mature deer is because they often shoot the first thing they see, this either keeps them out of the woods because they got a deer or they are tipping off the big bucks to their location because pulling a deer out of the woods often causes a great disturbance to an area and leaves a lot of human scent behind. Half the mature deer I shoot I end up passing up a smaller buck earlier in the hunt, if I shoot that small buck I don't get the big one.

[surewood]

Every year that I've shot a nice deer I've seen atleast one 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer, sometimes many more. I had a decent 2.5 year old seven come right under my stand and thought I wonder how many people would shoot him. Then less then an hour later I shot the biggest deer to date. Never woulda happened if I shot the seven. Easily puts things in perspective for me. Let em walk.

[flipper]

But if you would have shot the little one then that big one would have gotten even bigger and spread his genes some more.

[InTheNorthwoods]

But if you would have shot the little one then that big one would have gotten even bigger and spread his genes some more.

You can't know that. Your assertions may be wrong on several levels. First, bucks will at some point begin to decline in antler size as they age. Second, not all mature bucks take part in breeding, some of the largest bucks are solely focused on survival and solitude and take no part in the rut. Third, that young buck that was passed up could easily have superior genetics to the one that was shot, and could one day grow into a much larger buck than the one that was shot. The point is, you never know what a young buck has the potential to become if you shoot them at a young age. If you take a mature buck, atleast at that point you have an idea of his potential (and you already have several years of him participating in breeding to have passed on his genetics).

[flipper]

And you do know for absolute sure he will not get any bigger or spread his genetics after you shoot him. I know deer aren't fish but according to your analysis the fishery people have everything wrong and we should not be harvesting the eaters but only the adult fish.

[HandGunner]

what if you shot a buck that had the antlers shot off? seeing some deer from ppl i can tell there are more ppl who go for headshots then i would expect. lets say the moon and stars were all aligned and someone happened to shoot off both antlers making them break off leaving 3 inches or less on when going for a head shot and you harvested it thinking it was a small nubby or thinking it wasa legal "antlerless" deer. you ralize the antlers were shot off and you know the rangers will know it too but you did not do it intensionally but you harvested it thinking it was an antlerless deer. what happens?

just thaught of this scenerio. it is not likley but plausable

[flipper]

The chances of this happening are kind of remote but as long as you were not the one who shot them off that would be a legal deer to harvest as an anterless deer.

[Jimmy from Cottage Grove]

I hunt zone 342 and think it is a great idea. I think it is a great thing for zone 3. I would be willing to bet they deer population is alot stronger down there, then northern minnesota. I did not take a deer this year, since I was waiting for a mature buck. I did however see almost sixty deer in 5 days of hunting. I seen 18 bucks that are going to get a chance to grow into something special. (Granted some were probably the same deer)

[surewood]

Flipper, he had a good 6.5 maybe 7.5 years to spread his genetics. It's deer management, not trophy. Some deer will never carry a high scoring rack. How would you have big bucks if you shot the young ones? Sure they might have superior genetics, but they would never be reached. Sooner or later the mature one you pass on will die. You get big deer by letting them reach they're third bday or more.

[flipper]

The truth is I like to see the more mature bucks in the herd too. It is

fun to watch them as their behavior is different from the young bucks. I

enjoy venison and I would just as soon shoot a nice juicy doe as anything. However when you hunt in a lottery area shooting a doe is not always an option. And if you shoot every mature buck that comes your way there aren't going to be any in the herd are there?

I do have a problem when hunting becomes an elitist thing to some people and they make somebody feel guilty if they shoot a younger buck. As long as someone is within the law what they shoot is there business. I also have a problem with these horn hunters who don't eat their venison. I guess I am old fashioned enough that I believe if you don't want to eat it don't shoot it.

[96trigger]

Quote:

However when you hunt in a lottery area shooting a doe is not always an option. And if you shoot every mature buck that comes your way there aren't going to be any in the herd are there?

Just a couple of things to note flipper. Almost all of zone 3 is either intensive or managed. I don't believe APR should ever get instituted in places where it is a lottery area. In that case, the management should be to build the population, not age structure.

Secondly, if you shoot the 4.5 year old buck, and let the little 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks go, you will then have 2.5 and 3.5 year old bucks for next years breeding season. So even though you are taking a mature buck out of the population, by letting 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks walk, you are hopefull allowing them to mature to 2.5 and 3.5 the following season to do some breeding.