Prevent a ban on lead fishing tackle

[jeffreyd]

From a report from MnDnr.

http://www.peregrinefund.org/lead_conference/PDF/0307%20Tranel.pdf

[swamptiger]

Lot of reading, but from what I gathered, there might be a case to be made about lead bird shot, but looks like a stretch to go from there to banning all lead fishing tackle and lead bullets.

[mainbutter]

I agree with Jackpine. When I grew up there was leaded gas, lead paint, lead shot for everything and we melted down lead for decoy weights on the kitchen counter. I'm still healty and alive.

And somehow I find myself constantly complaining about old people for all KINDS of reasons

Maybe there is some link between the two?? lol

[mainbutter]

When I see some good, verifiable data that shows how terribly my 180 grain 30-06 bullet is impacting the environment, I'm all ears. Until then, all I can seem to hear is "The Sky is Falling!" Must be the lead paint chips.....

Lead in venison meat is well documented. This link is the first to pop up when I use a search engine and look up "lead venison"

http://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/

Just because it's convenient to ignore the fact that lead is pretty darn toxic doesn't mean we should ignore it completely.

I still will support lead use in firearms and fishing, but at least I do so with full knowledge of the risks.

What I want to know is the process by which it is claimed that fishing lead (in all its various forms) makes it from my lure/fishing line/whatever into the bird. Are they diving and eating jigheads that snagged on something and broke the line? Are fish "eating" lead, and then the birds eat the fish?

[FishonTom]

I myself don't mind using an alternative as long as it works and the cost is even close. I use copper for all my bullets now. Lead, they say was the cause of the downfall of the Roman empire. All their eating utensils were puter, whis is mostly lead, and the plumbing was all lead, not just drains, but fresh water storage.

[live4chrome]

I have thousands of dollars invested in lead jigs, spinners, trolling weights, ice fishing lures, and other misc. tackle. To say that it is illegal and to loose the privledge to use my tackle would be a huge blow to my wallet, and my ability to catch fish. I would however 100% support a ban on lead sinkers and split shot less than one ounce.

[Blue Kayak]

This is just a letter with a petition to EPA, and EPA now has a comment time to hear responses to this petition. This is not a rule making proposal, and EPA will certainly not adopt a rule banning lead tackle based on the comments received from this commenting period. However, EPA could decide to develop a rule based on the comments, and then there would be a rule commenting period.

Here is a copy of the letter (on American Bird Conservancy letterhead) that started this process:

Administrator Lisa P. Jackson

Environmental Protection Agency

USEPA Headquarters

Ariel Rios Building

1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N. W.

Mail Code: 1101A

Washington, DC 20460

August 3, 2010

Dear Administrator Jackson:

As provided in the Toxic Substances Control Act (“TSCA”), Petitioners

American Bird Conservancy, Association of Avian Veterinarians, Center

for Biological Diversity, Public Employees for Environmental

Responsibility, and Project Gutpile request that the EPA adopt

regulations prohibiting the manufacture, processing, and

distribution in commerce of lead shot, lead bullets, lead fishing

sinkers, and other lead-containing fishing gear, pursuant to TSCA

(15 U.S.C.§ 2605(a)(2)(A)(i)). Such regulations are needed to

protect vulnerable wildlife species from the ongoing threat of lead

poisoning, as well as to safeguard human health.

TSCA mandates that the EPA must regulate chemical substances where

there is a “reasonable basis to conclude” that such substances

“present an unreasonable risk of injury to health and or the environment”

(15 U.S.C. § 2605(a)). TSCA authorizes the EPA to prohibit “the

manufacturing, processing, or distribution in commerce” of a chemical

substance for a particular use or uses (15 U.S.C. § 2605(a)(2)(A)(i)).

The EPA has already declared that lead is a toxic substance, and has

removed nearly all lead containing products from the market.

We present in the attached petition nearly 500 peer reviewed scientific

articles documenting the toxic effects of lead on wildlife species and

conclude that the lead components of bullets, shotgun pellets, fishing

weights and lures pose an unreasonable risk of injury to human and

wildlife health and to the environment.

Ammunition and tackle manufacturers now market a wide variety of non-lead,

non-toxic bullets, shotgun pellets, and fishing tackle that can replace

lead projectiles and weights. The EPA has long held that whenever a

toxic substance customarily used in the manufacture of commercial

products can be replaced by a nontoxic substitute, the precautionary

principle dictates that articles made of the toxic substance

should be removed from the market. All hunting and fishing gear

containing lead could economically be replaced with non-toxic

alternatives, thus making a strong argument for EPA-regulatory action.

The petitioners understand that EPA is specifically prohibited from

regulating ammunition or firearms under TSCA, but that toxic

components of ammunition can be regulated if non-toxic alternatives

are commercially available. The petitioners have waited until

non-toxic alternatives have become available to submit this

petition in an effort to clearly indicate that this petition is

not an attempt to regulate ammunition or firearms.

Sincerely,

Michael Fry, PhD

American Bird Conservancy

Washington DC.

From some Web sites, it appears there is a problem with small lead sinkers and small jigs causing substantial bird mortality, especially for loons in New Hampshire. I would support a ban on lead sinkers of the size that are causing the problem.

However, as river rat316 stated, it is more likely that only the smallest sinkers, such as split shot, cause this mortality. This is not so different than the Feds banning lead shot for waterfowl. The 1/2 to one ounce and larger sinkers seem very unlikely to cause substantial waterfowl deaths.

There may be a number of fishing lures with brass or bronze that also have small amounts of lead. I would like to see some proof that these lures cause significant bird mortality before they are banned.

The Minnesota Pollution Control Agency has studied the effects of lead sinkers on loons in Minnesota and has found about five to six percent mortality to loons from lead sinkers. EPA reports the following restrictions have been implemented in other states:

New Hampshire has banned the use and sale of lead fishing sinkers that weigh less than an ounce and lead jigs smaller than an inch. (NOTE: A New Hampshire study found that 44% of death in loons was from injested lead sinkers. However, this was from very heavily fished lakes.)

Maine and New York have banned the sale of lead sinkers weighing a half-ounce or less.

In 2004, the Vermont Legislature passed a bill banning the sale (January 2006) of lead sinkers weighing 1/2 ounce or less, and then the use (January 2007) of those lead sinkers in the state.

In June 2000, the Massachusetts Fisheries & Wildlife Board voted to prohibit the use of all lead sinkers for the taking of fish in Quabbin and Wachusett Reservoirs, the two bodies of water that support the core of that state's loon population.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has banned lead sinkers in two national wildlife refuges and Yellowstone National Park; restrictions have been discussed on the use of lead sinkers and jigs at other national wildlife refuges where loons and trumpeter swans breed.

---

None of these restrictions are as broad and sweeping as what the letter to EPA is requesting, the ban of all lead containing tackle. If you want to comment on this issue, you should be aware that there apparently are some areas where loons and some other waterfowl have died from lead sinkers and jigs. Personally, I'm going to wait and see if EPA even decides to take any action before making a comment. My hope is that EPA will see that the claims in this letter are too broadly stated and will basically ignore it. If EPA proposes a rule to ban lead tackle, I'll definitely be commenting to try and get it restricted to areas where lead tackle have caused problems, or to limit it to smaller sinkers and smaller jigs.

[swamptiger]

Just thought I would throw this in for consideration.

The Center for Biological Diversity also has a program going right now they are calling the "Endangered Species Condom" program. From what I gather, the theory is the less people reproduce, the less danger some of these species will be in. Here's a quote taken from their HSOforum:

Quote:

To help people understand the impact of overpopulation on other species, and to give them a chance to take action in their own lives, the Center is distributing free packets of Endangered Species Condoms depicting six separate species: the polar bear, snail darter, spotted owl, American burying beetle, jaguar, and coquí guajón rock frog.

[Ed Carlson]

Oh No you didn't...

Now they have gone too far...

I'll never give up my daily meal of Coquí Guajón Rock Frog's!

Them Bastards!

My God..What next?

[swamptiger]

Just what I always wanted - a customized American Burying Beetle condom - how can you go wrong??

[Redlantern]

Mainbutter, I believe that the waterfowl ingest the lead while eating gravel.

[mainbutter]

Thanks Redlantern. I think it would be pretty easy to change a bit of our fishing habits (being more picky about WHEN we use lead) to limit leaving it where it's getting eaten.

It sounds like the worst thing you could do is pouring split shot all over gravel, so do the opposite of that Save split shot for when you're fishing a bit deeper.

[LMITOUT]

Some people just have to have a cause and need control over others. It could be because their own lives are so out of control.

That may be the best summation of this issue and many others.

Thank you.

[Redlantern]

I'm with you Main, not too tough for me to splurge on a non-toxic split shot for about double the cost of lead. Why is this even an issue? Of course this whole thing can be taken a bit too far but as far as split shot goes, why not?

[CANOPY SAM]

Not to be argumentative, but I think it may be more of a case of Bio-concentration. It happens when little critters on the bottom, salmanders, mud-puppys, etc., inadvertantly ingest lead, which in turn are eaten by shore birds, sandpipers, grebes, loons etc. The lead actually concentrates in the higher food chain animals flesh as it travels further up the food chain.

It's also been documented that loons will dive very deep, up to 200 ft., to hunt for their food. Hence, scattering lead in deeper water is not necessarily going to stop the problem.

Personally, I'd hate to see our MN Loon population disappear.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Thank you Jerry for that info (Blue Kayak).

Anyone have any ideas what a substitute for lead could or should be? I'm looking at my 6 & 8 oz no-roll and bank sinkers right now and wondering what could replace the weight with a similar/smaller size than lead for the same price.

The most expensive tackle for Catfishing to me is the sinkers and if they went up in price even more I would be disappointed.

However, we gotta do what is best for our wildlife. I would rather be safe than sorry and lose populations of birds.

[harvey lee]

If lead is an issue in venison, then I should have had issues years ago.

All a bunch of hogwash for some company to fill thier pockets with a new lead free product.

I think this country has issues much more serious than lead in bullets or fishing tackle.

[reinhard1]

i agree harvey. my goodness i'm surprised i'm still around with all the venison, partridge, and rabbits i have eaten and they were all shot with lead. good luck.

[PartyWhine]

Case closed ... harvey and rein haven't gotten sick.

I don't need to know anything more than that.

How about sunburns and skin cancer fellas ?

Tobacco and cancer ?

Whats been your experience ?

Cause its all about you.

[psepuncher]

How about sunburns and skin cancer fellas ?

Tobacco and cancer ?

herbicides sold at walmart/ homedepot to kill weeds.

Very highly toxic and anyone of any age can buy it off the shelf.

Millions of gallons spread all over the country.

ethanol that dr cornatzer helps produce, it sends the toxic by-products into the air, water and on land.

For their ethanol production they use waste coal and burn it for electricity.

And also, they do not capture the gasses that are highly toxic.

Since far more mercury and other toxic contaminants enter a waste coal burner to produce a given amount of electricity, these high levels of toxic contaminants have to come out somewhere. Toxic metals cannot be destroyed by burning them. Toxins are then concentrated in the highly toxic ash that ultimately threatens the groundwater wherever this ash is dumped. The industry claims that 99.8% of the mercury in the fuel is captured and ends up in their ash.

Waste coal ash is dumped in communities not far from the waste coal burners, threatening the groundwater with leaching lead, mercury and other poisons

[Bushwacker7]

1% of 1 million = 10,000. CORRECT

1% of 100 million = 100,000. INCORRECT

1% of 100 million = 1,000,000 is the correct amount!

[reinhard1]

and what has that have to do with led bullets or shotgun shells? maby try a new thread. seems like you already have determined that knowone in our families have had any of those terrible afflictions and have not felt the terrible grief that goes with it. is it ok if a couple of guys give their opinons? we are not rocket scientist like yourself who knows best for the rest of us who are in perfect health.

[mixxedbagg]

As someone who has personally handled and tagged loons and other birds that died from lead poisoning as a volunteer (since the anti-lead ban people only buy anecdotes over data), I fully support a ban on lead tackle and shot. Yes, I still have a some lead sinkers in my tackle collection, but as I go through them I am replacing with non-toxic. Additionally, I shoot steel for grouse--though it makes me a little nervous in rocky areas where ricochet is possible. The biggest problem I've had is just finding non-toxic tackle in small towns. I wish some of the local stores that sell tackle would stock some of the more affordable non-toxic alternatives so people could see that they aren't really that bad.

Am I excited about higher prices? No. Do I think a lead ban would increase competition among manufacturers to come out with an affordable, quality non-toxic product? Yes. Do I think that people who've fished with lead for 40 years would be upset with any alternative no matter how good? Yes. I'm definitely not rolling in dough and I definitely have minimalist gear, but do I think the cost difference between lead and non-toxic is a drop in the bucket compared to what most guys are spending on fishing these days? Yes. Do I think the low cost of lead encourages people to fish with lighter line and drag through snaggier cover than is probably smart? Yes.

Anyway, I just don't think sportsmen should continue to add more and more toxic lead to the environment, especially knowing that it kills waterfowl. Yes, I grew up biting split shot from the time I was six years old and IIIII'mm purfektly%%%%%fin^^^^^e stoppwatchverbbigcedartreeees....**drool** What was I? Oh yeah. The point is, I would never in a million years bite a split shot now that I know better, and even though I don't hunt deer, if I did, I wouldn't be pumping lead fragments in meat that I wanted to feed my family either, no matter how many old timers claim to be purfektly%%%%%fin^^^^^e.

I'm making the adjustment now, some type of restrictions are on their way, and I support them sooner than later.

[reinhard1]

ok, you make some good points. i am willing to have an open mind on this and may change my tune on this one. as far as i know loons diet consists of fish. could their lead content be from being in water which has a lead content or do the fish they eat , eat the lead pellets and then pass it on to the loon. in my mind i just dont see ducks eating that many pellets. but thats just me and i realy haven't looked into it as much as you did. as far as venison i would think it would have the least concern since most people remove the meat from the wounded area. i responded to the other posts because i think everyone has been impacted by some infliction or disease in one way or the other and we were talking about the damage lead that is done to birds and animals. so i will read up on it. thanks for you post. good luck.

[pureinsanity]

Ive shot many many pheasants, all with lead. Now they are coated in copper but still when cleaning birds I find bb's that are not completely covered.

Ive shot deer with a large lead slug, I have no problems.

I find it very interesting that people are concerned about the wildlife all of the sudden when they should be concerned about themselves, and there kids.

as many of you know lead occurs naturally in many places; reservoirs, lakes, rivers or a well that supplies your drinking water.

The network of pipes and indoor plumbing through which that water travels throughout your house - even a faucet itself - may contain lead, or have been connected with lead fittings or solder. Your tap water can contain harmful levels of lead.

Your city water line might have a lead fitting some where still which is dropping lead deposits into your drinking water...

And who's concerned about the wildlife??? As far as I am concerned I will still be shooting lead until they ban it. I will still be fishing with lead until they ban it. and I will still be balancing my tires with lead until they ban it.

EAT LEAD!