Twins get Matt Capps for Ramos

[zepman]

Twins didn't trust Rausch in the closer role and neither did most who've watched him. He did a fine job but it's not where he belongs. This move...a good one IMO...will allow him to go back to doing what he was brought here to do AND give us the closer we need.

Ramos was expendible and his stock was falling...period. They had to move him now!! Hope Capps works out and we're able to retain him for a few years down the road as well.

[jwmiller33]

Man, jw.... you must have some time or type like 100wpm????

apparently you have to type 100 wpm in order to be able to write four paragraphs in 5 minutes. and yes, i dont have a whole lot on my schedule at 10:45 at night besides checking my fantasy baseball team and whatnot. good dis

[jwmiller33]

even if you add 1 run to lilly's and myers ERA, it is still better than the majority of our starting rotation. Ted Lilly's ERA is 3.62 and WHIP of 1.13 and Bret Myer's ERA is 3.10 and WHIP of 1.22. Even if you "add 1 run" to account for the league difference, their ERAs are still better than Slowey's (4.76), Bakers (5.00) and Blackburns (6.66). Those guys are solid and proven veterans. Last time we picked up a solid veteran pitcher, I can't remember how he worked out for us. What was his name again? Pavano? Oh ya, he has now started 32 games for Twins and gone 18-10 with 3.72 ERA, 140/35 K/BB ratio in 217.1 IP. Without him, we would not even have a chance at the playoffs this year

fact of the matter is, there are still starting pitchers out on the market that would improve our rotation. and as i have said many times, our starting rotation needs much more help than our bullpen. lets put it this way, i'd be much more confident in our bullpen's ability to maintain a 2 run lead in the last 3 innings of a playoff game at Yankee Stadium than i would be for Blackburn (i know he isn't in the roto anymore), Slowey or Baker actually starting a game and putting us in line for a win in the same situation in the playoffs. what it comes down to is we lack a quality #3 starter. Pavano and Liriano aren't going to bring us to the world series alone or even the playoffs for that matter. It doesn't matter how good our bullpen is, were not going to get to the point of needing a good set up guy and closer if we don't have a quality SP to get us inline for the win

[hugonian1]

So looking ahead, where does this leave Joe Nathan?

[jigging-matt]

This will let them take next season and let Nathan work his way back into form. It has been shown that the 1st year back from that surgery, they just aren't the same yet. It takes a year for them to work it out. I like the trade and think B. Smith has done a nice job so far. I would have liked have Lee, but it didn't work out. We were never in the running for Oswalt. People can complain all they want, but they don't work the front office for the Twins and don't know all of the details of what happend. Since I don't know all of the details, I will trust that this was the best for the team and that is fine. While our Bullpen ERA is low, they are not doing that great right now. Burnett was hot, now he is in AAA, Guerrier was shaky the other night, Still don't trust Crain, Duensing is now a starter, Mahay is Mahay enough said. I can't wait to see Capps in a twins uniform.

[harvey lee]

This dude should help the BP for sure and give Nathan some extra time to heal next season. Good move.

Now, for this season and going anywhere in the play-offs, TERRIBLE TRADE. When the oposing team is up by 5, what good is a BP pitcher?

We need another good starter to keep us in the game.

We could trade slowey or Blackburn but for what I have no idea.

[B. Amish]

some of you act like thw twins don't know what their own needs are. this is their job. they've hashed out every scenario for the last few weeks and gone over every possible trade. if we could've gotten a starter, i'm sure we would've. it takes two to trade.

[Coach1310]

The problem with trading for a starter is THE OTHER TEAM IS NOT GOING TO WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH Slowey or Blackburn. So we would be giving up multiple prospects to get someone. The two hottest names in our system are Gibson and Hicks and BOTH I would guess are untouchable. I just don't see the value in adding Lily or Myers for multiple prospects. Neither of which greatly improves our stock or our chance to win in the playoffs.

[Born2Fish]

I think the Twins got the best deal they could of gotten. They were not going to give up either Hicks or Gibson, that is pretty clear. And I am sure if they could of gotten a starter they thought could of improved this team, they would of pulled the trigger. But honestly, is Lily or Myers a drastic improvement over what we have and what we would have to give to get them? I personally do not think so. The Twins just went 6-1 on their last road trip. While it was against sub-par competition, the starters did just fine.

[Harmonica Bear]

I like the trade just for the fact your bullpen can never be strong or deep enough IMHO. Could we have got more for Ramos? Probably, but that's hard to say

We may not make another trade before the deadline, but I guarantee our maneuvering isn’t over. Correct if I am wrong (as always), but we didn’t exactly make some blockbuster trade for Pavano and Rausch last year. In some way or fashion weren't they basically claimed off waivers, the team rescinded, and then a woopti-de-doo player exchange (trade) brought them here?

"If you thought that the Indians were done trading just because of a measly deadline, think again.

Per team media relations:

The Cleveland Indians today announced the club has completed a trade with the Minnesota Twins, sending RHP Carl Pavano to Minnesota in exchange for a player to be named. The Indians will receive this player on or before September 1. To take Pavano’s spot on the 25-man roster, the Indians have recalled LHP Rafael Perez from AAA Columbus.

This means that Pavano was in fact waived within the last three days. He made 21 starts for the Tribe this year going 9-8 with a 5.37 ERA, and managed to stay off of the disabled list."

"Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN - The Minnesota Twins announced today that they have acquired righthanded pitcher Jon Rauch from the Arizona Diamondbacks, in exchange for a player to be named later."

Good trades don't always have to be ESPN's top story.

[Dylan33]

It's a great trade to bolster our bullpen....lets think about this logically....3 of our 5 starters can't be expected to go more than 4 innings. Our pen is gonna get tired if they throw 5 innings every 3 out of 5 games.

[DonBo]

Do we have more pressing needs than another closer? Yes, certainly. Did this trade make our team better? Absolutely! How can that be a bad thing?

We have plenty of catchers. Butera and Morales are both fine catchers and very capable of giving Mauer the rest he needs when he needs it.

What this trade does is it lets Rauch do what he does best, that's eat plenty of innings for the bullpen, something he hasn't been able to do as our closer. Our bullpen has been good, but with the overuse most have seen, this trade will allow everyone out there to catch their breath and be better rested for the stretch.

[DonBo]

The other "player to be named" is left-handed pitcher Joe Testa. Testa, a reliever, was signed as a non-drafted free agent in 2008. He began this season at Double-A New Britain, where he was 1-4 with a 8.25 ERA in 21 games. He was moved to Class A Fort Myers, where he went 1-1 with a 3.30 ERA in 15 games. The Twins will also get $500,000 as part of the deal.

[Nick Kuhn]

Any time you can get a solid player for a prospect you'll never use it'll be a good deal. There simply isn't a worthwhile trade out there to make. The remaining pitchers are no more likely to return to winning form than Slowey or Baker are. Remember most of the available pitchers were in the National league, so bringing them to the AL be sure to tack on 1 to the ERA and you'd see that about a 4.50 ERA guy is the best they could do. And with Valencia playing so well it's hard to justify getting a 3rd baseman.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

I like the trade just for the fact your bullpen can never be strong or deep enough IMHO.

True especially with our rotation. We're going to need inning eaters and now Rausch can help fill that role.

I hate giving prospects up as much as anyone but I like the move.

[HookEmHard84]

In Smith we trust.

Right now it does seem a little like we got hosed, only because of how much people value Ramos. As usual, people just need to relax, and trust the people that get paid to do this for their job. The rest of us MLB "eperts" can blab all we want, but they are the only ones who really have all the facts on the story.

Capps is a good player, he will help us. IMO (little as it matters) Lee, Oswalt, or Haren are the kind of players the Twins would need to add to have a chance at maiking it past the 1st round of the playoffs. I dont think we had a shot at any of them though. We will just have to hope that the guys we have start to heat up (like they do almost every year).

[jwmiller33]

Capps was available for nothing this past offseason. Non-tendered by the pirates after posting a 5.80 ERA and a .324 opponents batting average (keep in mind this was in the NL). The Nats signed him for $3.5 mil because they were the only team that would let him remain a closer. Capps reputation as a "experienced closer" basically comes from him mopping up saves on bad teams. Its not like Rauch has done horrible for us, he has converted 21/25 saves with a 3.05 ERA and 27/9 strikeout to walk ratio in 38.1 innings. If he had been given the whole season, he probably would have turned into/been considered an "establish closer" much like Capps. These are some excerpts from Aaron Gleeman's take on this trade.

Take a look at their career numbers:

IP ERA FIP SO/9 BB/9 AVG OBP SLG OPS

Capps 317 3.50 3.80 7.0 1.7 .263 .302 .415 .717

Rauch 402 3.54 3.90 7.5 2.7 .242 .297 .390 .687

Their overall effectiveness is nearly identical across the board. The biggest difference between them is Capps has accumlated saves for 4 seasons while Rauch has been given that role for just 1 season, while Rauch's one season are pretty much in par with Capps career numbers.

I'd hardly suggest the Twins trading Ramos for a reliever who is "slightly better" than Rauch is a sound idea, yet by focusing on the save statistic, the Twins have done just that and many fans will instinctively be on board with the move for an "established closer". What Capps is not is an elite reliever or enough of an upgrade to part with Ramos.

Capps is arbitration eligible next year and the Twins essentially traded Ramos and Vesta for 1.5 seasons of Capps. Unfortunately part of his inflated perceived value includes his likely price-tag in arbitration, which is sure to rise from this year's $3.5 million salary to over $5 million (and perhaps well over $5 million) thanks to those same shiny-looking save totals. Next season the Twins will pay a premium for a quality setup man they perceive as something more because of a reliance on a flawed statistic and they gave up a good catching prospect for the right do that.

In fairness, Ramos' value is at an all time low right now. His historic debut caused the Twins fans who don't know any better to assume that he was destined for stardom and his subsequent struggles at Triple-A have exposed him as a good but not great prospect. However, he still projects as a good defender behind the plate and a 22-year-old being overmatched in his first experience at Triple-A is far from disastrous.

I'm not convinced that Ramos will become a star, but the possibility certainly exists and at the very least he looks capable of developing into a starting-caliber catcher for many years. Joe Mauer's presence meant Ramos had little shot to be that starting-caliber catcher in Minnesota, but that doesn't mean the Twins needed to deal him immediately or when his value was at an all-time low or for an underwhelming return like Capps.

In the Twins' minds they just traded him for an "All-Star closer." In reality they traded Ramos for a setup-caliber reliever who accumulated saves on bad teams and is thus overrated and soon overpaid. Among the 93 pitchers who've logged 150-plus relief innings in the past three calendar years, Capps ranks 38th in xFIP, 49th in FIP, 50th in ERA, 61st in strikeout rate, and 85th in opponents' average.

The Twins just paid a premium for a guy whose perceived value and ability are much higher than his actual value and ability solely because of his role and save total. Capps is a good reliever, but the Twins paid for a great reliever and did so for all the wrong reasons.

[DonBo]

Boy, will Billy ever be embarrased by his ideotic trade after he reads that. I'm sure he never knew ANY of those stats. Bet he had no idea what a stiff Capps is. (please place heavily sarcastic face here)

[Z-520]

I guess I don't see what the difference is if you make a save for a good team or a bad team. I think the criteria is the same, and your still pitching against Major League hitters. If anything it would be tougher to get a save on a bad team because your defense is probably not as good.

[Scott K]

Are we assuming Capps will be taking over the closer role, or have the Twins announced he will be our closer? Could he be the set up man? I dont know if it makes much sense to get a closer, that is pretty much the same caliber as we have now.

I know in the beginning of the season Rauch said he didnt want to be a closer, but would til Nathan came back, maybe Rauch doesnt want to close anymore, and that is why they they went after Capps?

Sorry, I am just trying to figure out the reasoning behind, getting Capps, over a starting pitcher.

I realize our relievers have been overworked, and need some help, but the reason that is, is because our starters just arent getting their jobs done.

[PierBridge]

Of course Capps will be the closer.

Acquiring starting pitching is nearly impossible and 95 percent of the teams fail in there attempt to do so.

[jwmiller33]

well according to someone else's logic previously in this thread, you have to "add at least 1 run" to the ERA of a NL pitcher to get comparison to the AL.

regardless, i've stressed my opinion enough. when the twins get hosed in the playoffs (if we even make it there is in question) because we dont have enough starting pitching, i am going to say "i told you so". pavano's deal is up after this year and we are probably not going to resign him because his value has gone thru the roof (in terms of twins dollars) in his past 1.5 seasons with the twins. we are going to have to pay A LOT to keep him if we want to resign him, and he is going to be looking for a multiple year deal at that. there are many teams who are going to want him and take a stab at him in free agency

with pavano most likely leaving after this year, our rotation will be in shambles. unless blackburn and slowey have miraculous offseasons and somehow "find" themselves, its going to be touch to be competitive next year.

liriano and pavano aren't going to win it all for us this year and some of you seem to think having a good bullpen is much more important than having a good rotation. the bullpen getting "holds" and "saves" is completely irrelevant if the starting pitchers hand the games over to them with us losing by 5 runs.

[mrklean]

will we have capps this year and next? Whats his contract look like?

[jwmiller33]

I guess I don't see what the difference is if you make a save for a good team or a bad team. I think the criteria is the same, and your still pitching against Major League hitters. If anything it would be tougher to get a save on a bad team because your defense is probably not as good.

what i was trying to say here is that capps wouldnt be good enough to be a closer on a "good team". he was non tendered by the PIRATES and the only team that would sign him was a Nats. i think there is a reason he wasnt signed by a "good team" in his time in the majors

It will be interesting to see how he adapts to coming to the AL after spending his whole career in the NL.

[jwmiller33]

will we have capps this year and next? Whats his contract look like?