Northern Pike and Bass Dynamics on smaller lakes.

[merkman]

This is something that has puzzled me for a while; I am interested in hearing the Bass communities’ observations on how the top predators (Bass and Northern Pike) get along on smaller lakes.

Are they outright competitors or do they have a mutually beneficial relationship?

I have noticed on a small lake that I fish that the Bass have exploded and Northern Pike populations seem to have been steady but not growing. Then people found out about the Bass and now the Bass seem to be declining. Just wondering what effect that will have on the Northern Pike populations.

Any input from the Bass community is appreciated.

Thanks!!

[Nick Kuhn]

I'm sure someone will have a much more detailed answer, but I'll briefly state my thoughts.

Interactions between bass and pike aren't as common as one might think. While you may see both types of fish on a given weed flat, if you break it down to a micro-habitat you would probably find bass and pike inhabiting different areas of the same weed flat. Just by nature of body shape bass are much better adjusted to areas of heavy cover, and are more suited to catching similarly shaped sunfish. Pike are more straight-line predators, and prefer a little sparser cover and perch-shaped prey. There will be some cross-over, but not enough to really have a significant impact on the others population/size structure. Just thinking of two of my better big bass lakes, one has a lot of pike and many good sized pike as well, and in the other pike are very few and far between. The bass fishing in the two lakes is remarkably similar though.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Well, I have had it both ways.. I had a tournament I cant remember if I won or not, it was either first or second.. and for about an hour I set the hook every 2 mins I bet.. and it was a craps shoot if it was a pike or bass or muskie.. go figure.. More often than not, my opinion is that but bass and pike eat the same and often times can be in the same area.. Bass however would probably not have to compete if and when they dont have to.

[LegattoAD]

Merk, BASS answered this question pretty well in their "Ask the BASS biologist" series in the 8/6 entry. Go to their HSOforum and as of today, it is still in their headlines section. Otherwise you should be able to search for it.

[Bushwacker7]

"Then people found out about the Bass and now the Bass seem to be declining"

Since the majority of people do not eat bass, does that mean that they are not very adept at "catch and release"?

[OnAFly]

Why do you think that a majority of people don't eat bass? Seems like I see a lot of it.

This is probably true with the hard core anglers you'll find on sites like this, but for the casual angler that's just fishing, they'll keep them.

[corncob]

One thing that I have found is do NOT use a spinnerbait if you dont want pike to hammer it.I fish a smaller lake and occasionaly catch a pike if Im using plastic, BUT, as soon as I put on a spinnerbait I start catching pike regularly.

[RK]

Hiya -

Interesting question. Most of the lakes I bass fish have pretty significant pike populations too so this is something I've paid attention to over the years.

I don't have any hard data, just anecdotal observations, and a (very) cursory search of AFS journals didn't turn up any direct research.

I do think that on lakes with high pike density pike can push bass into thicker, shallower cover. I can think of some lakes in the Walker area like this, where weedlines are pike city but there's a good shallow water bass fishery. Now, that could be for other reasons than interspecies competition or predation, but as a practical matter I think it's an accurate observation.

I also think that activity levels can change location and how the species relate to each other day to day. One example I've seen with incredible consistency happens on the lake my cabin's on. My favorite bass spot on the lake is a big weed point. The tip of the point is a great bass spot, but on days with the pike are really "on" all you catch off the tip are pike, even if the bass are biting well too. But if you move down either side of the point to the "shoulders" of the point rather than the tip, you'll find bass. It's almost like they get pushed off the point by the pike. It's something I've seen on this spot dozens of times over the years.

I also think these observations are more true in lakes with high populations of smaller pike than in lower density, bigger pike lakes. I wouldn't hang my hat on that 100% but it's an observation I and a couple other guys I know have made.

Have to be careful making too many conclusions about species interaction like this though - it's a complex topic I think. Pretty soon you're getting into questions of forage preference and forage reactions to predation, bioenergetics and all kinds of stuff.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Bushwacker7]

"Why do you think that a majority of people don't eat bass? Seems like I see a lot of it."

If that's so, I had no idea. I have always heard that bass doesn't taste particularly good. I guess in my circle we cpr and assumed everyone did likewise.

So you think a majority of people keep and eat their bass catch? Is that true with Smallies, as well?

[LegattoAD]

I'll keep some of the smaller sized LM's (12-15") but any bigger and they go back. They taste just fine to me. Cut the lateral line out and you're good, heck, if you cut the meat small enough you can't necessarily tell the difference between a LM and a sunnie.

SM aren't in the water that I fish so I couldn't say anything about that.

I wouldn't say that a majority of people keep what they catch, mostly because the perception is that bass tastes funny or through their personal sense of resource conservation.

The original post was too vague to say whether the decline in bass fishing on that particular body of water was from harvesting the bass or from C&R fishing pressure. And it could be either one, but I would suspect the latter of the two, IMHO.

[OnAFly]

I guess I don't know about a majority, but I see a lot of people who are out catching sunnies keeping any bass they catch too.

Smallies might be different. I don't know. There aren't a lot of them in the lakes I fish.

[mn_bowhunter]

Dan Isermann, a professor at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point conducted a release rate study based on creel surveys in MN. It may not be published yet, but the findings were that a majority of bass were released in southern MN and a significantly larger percentage were harvested in northern MN.

[corncob]

I agree with Northern Mn folks keeping more bass....I live by Park Rapids and am always surprised how many keep bass when sunnie or eye fishing.....DAH!

[goblueM]

not surprising, bass taste a lot better out of those oligotrophic lakes!

funny how some species are almost totally C&R whereas similar tasting species are consumption-city

i also did a quick literature search and didnt come up with much. competition between species is a very complex subject and one that is difficult to quantify. then you have complicating factors such as lake by lake differences