The gift of the deer tag vs trophy bucks

[psepuncher]

Little bucks chase every doe they see, but Mother Nature I think tells that doe "he ain't my type". I've read on QDMA that adult does cause yearling bucks to disperse. Maybe to keep from inbreading.? It makes sense to close the season during the rut. As far as not seeing big mature bucks during that time, it's from lockdown. Then all you see are young deer, weather it's a yealing buck or doe. That's why so many of that age get killed. And it's definantly not that there are a lack of mature deer.

[LightningBG]

I can't find the MN DNR data anywhere on its HSOforum about the age breakdown of harvested bucks. I would love to find it. With all the information, statistics and survey data the DNR does make public I would think that information wouldn't be too difficult to find.

Their harvest data only includes Adult Male, Adult Female, Male Fawn and Female Fawn.

My guess is the information doesn't exist. I've heard of the DNR sampling at registration stations, which might give some idea, but not actual numbers. Its not the easiest thing in the world to age a deer and I have a feeling the 16 year old kid at the hardware store (or wherever) isn't going to have the slightest clue on how to do it. Neither will a big percentage of the hunters (myself included).

[Basseyes]

The better the buck to doe ratio hopefully the stronger bucks do the breeding. The continued heavy harvest on young bucks increases the odds of more and more younger bucks dominating the herd. It seems odd that the more young bucks you harvest the more you have. Younger and younger bucks are going to be doing the breeding. It's like 12 year olds having kids vs a healthy stronger older male in his prime. If you kept killing off all the young kids but were still having kids eventually there would be very few older guys left. We are not only weakening the gene pool by the over harvest of the most ignorant deer in the woods we are also hurting our habitat by the over browzing by to many deer. Talk to most loggers and forest service guys who knows anything about succession.

To me there's got to be a balance between hunter opportunity and a healthy deer herd. The SE is a great spot in the state to try some different things.

The DNR can never make every body happy so why not try and keep a healthy herd. I doubt there's many out there who'd say I want an unhealthy deer herd that's hurting habitat but I could be wrong.

[Getanet]

I have to admit it does sound strange to say the more young bucks we shoot the more young bucks we'll have. I guess it's also strange to say we'll have more mature bucks by shooting more mature bucks.

[psepuncher]

I have to admit it does sound strange to say the more young bucks we shoot the more young bucks we'll have. I guess it's also strange to say we'll have more mature bucks by shooting more mature bucks.

I'll be the first to adnit. Not to many people are going to shot a mature buck. I have a trail camera that shows that I do have big bucks though.

And although they are here on my property I have yet to see one while hunting. I've seen the small guys that I choose not to shoot. Most of them have broken headgear and are missing whole sides of their main beams.

[lakevet]

Mature bucks are always going to be a minor part of the deer harvest overall. The hunter who only shoots "mature bucks" (or only shoots antlered deer because only wimps would shoot a doe or fawn) and directly or indirectly belittles those who shoot anything "less", along with the hunting media who pumps up the shooting of the book buck and talks of little else, all degrade the hunter's critical role endorsed by the vast majority of the non-hunting public in managing the deer population, and tarnish our public image.

Just as the whitetail herd is healthiest when balanced mix of sexes and maturities, a state's population of deer hunters is healthiest when it is a mix of meat and trophy hunters, party hunters and solo hunters. For one hunter group to want to force their way onto everyone else by legally banning another's way of hunting is no different than having a herd that is 100% mature bucks, or primarily young bucks, or lots of mature bucks and over run with does. It is out of balance and problems will occur.

Lakevet

[WhiskeyWoods]

I agree 100 % Because it works for one person or hunting party does not mean it should be rammed down the throats of others. Our hunting party is only and CAN only be family members whether by blood or married into the family. There are usually about 10 of us. Every year we argue amongst ourselves the same stuff we argued years past. What to shoot, whose going to give up a tag in the first couple days so a guy can get bragging rights on 2 bucks, etc. I would say that all my uncles are more meat hunters and could care less about horns compared to the younger guys but in reality and the current condition of our woods, Any one of us would just be ecstatic about getting A deer....

[lakevet]

Because it works for one person or hunting party does not mean it should be rammed down the throats of others.

That is why moving the hunt off the peak of the rut makes sense. People could still hunt "their way" but bucks would not be as susceptible to the various "styles" of hunting when compared to hunting the peak of the rut. I have been called a broken record, but the fact remains that Iowa and Wisc have party hunting for bucks and cross tagging (gift of the tag) and better mature buck hunting than Minnesota. It can be done here.

lakevet

[Musky Buck]

Lakevet I often agree with ya, but isn't wisconsin about as prime of habitat as habitat can get and I'd love to hunt our state with the same number of rifle hunters Iowa has, in my area it's shoot whatever comes out and find tags to use and fill your own last, how does that issue get solved meaning the deer hunt means 1/2 of what it used to because after the opening morning there's minimal shooting light movement, over pressured in my farm belt area.

[WhiskeyWoods]

Musky I agree with what your saying, my earlier statement was leaning more of the hunters that want to push their agenda's into others camps. I'm not saying that we need to manage areas as we have been though... The consensus of our camp is that the DNR is not micromanaging areas enough to fit the bill to that particular area. The herd in our zone (184) seems to be dwindling heavily over the past 2 years yet the DNR ties that into other zones just east of us and a hunter could get a total of 5 deer still!!! What individual really needs that amount of meat? Now the terrible thing is we KNOW the DNR needs to make our area a lottery again at the least! To solve this problem NOW lets get the worst outta the way and have bucks only (As much as our camp regrets it..) and the local herd back up in fewer years as possible! Now we have what your saying Musky....fewer deer....more pressure, and from guys that won't leave their stands....

[jeffreyd]

does mn require anyone who takes a deer by any method to check it in?

[wolfman-k]

Yes, any deer "taken" must be registered, bucks with the antlers attached. Once that is completed, a transportation tag is then issued.

[Jameson]

...What individual really needs that amount of meat?...

What individual needs to sport hunt???

I butchered 9 deer (for me) last year, and only have a little burger left at this point. Yes, I did share some of the venison with the non-hunting land owners of where I hunt, and with some non-hunting friends who I try and influence to be pro-hunting.

[nonteepical]

how did you get 9 tags "for you"? you don't think 9 tags "for you" is a little selfish and greedy? and you can't understand why fellow hunters don't agree with cross tagging?

[Bear55]

I butchered 9 deer (for me) last year, and only have a little burger left at this point. Yes, I did share some of the venison with the non-hunting land owners of where I hunt, and with some non-hunting friends who I try and influence to be pro-hunting.

9 deer for you hu? I guess we could classify you as the extreme opposite of a trophy hunter. I know us QDM guys let labeled as greedy antler hunters all the time, can we call this an example of a greedy meat hunter?

[jerkbait]

how did you get 9 tags "for you"? you don't think 9 tags "for you" is a little selfish and greedy? and you can't understand why fellow hunters don't agree with cross tagging?

Where I deer hunt I can get an unlimited number of deer tags. If could find em I could shot 100 deer if I wanted. There are spots in the state with unlimited tags.

[WhiskeyWoods]

Wow, a lacking of the word moderation comes to mind... Sounds like a bit of this "I, I, me, me, give, give, thinking thats been going on in this country and most people should know better. I am not on board with some of the Southern MN trophy hunters ideas on whats good for every hunter by limiting and counting points. Sometimes guys in our camp will take 2 or 3 deer (if they are lucky)but just because the DNR says you can do it doesn't mean you necessarily should! Lets do the math...you shoot just one doe which would have had roughly 2 fawns in the next spring then you just took 3 deer from that area...pretty straight forwared stuff if your not counting what the wolves and other predators account for as well. Be a steward with your resources and land and keep the things you love to do bountiful. Like my grandpa always would say when we would talk greedy about fishing limits, " ....just go ahead and pull the plug on the lake then boys...."

[psepuncher]

I butchered 9 deer (for me) last year,

congrats!

Hope you have many more successful hunts.

[WhiskeyWoods]

congrats!

Hope you have many more successful hunts.

Yeah congrats! Maybe if your lucky enough and you want to fill your freezer right up to the brim, you can hunt over in the Skime area! I heard that the venison from over there is D-E-L-I-C-I-O-U-S!!! I'm sure the hunting camps over there could find it in their hearts to trade stands with you.....

[psepuncher]

TB can be destroyed in the cooking process. Ya just need to put a little

spice on 'em.

The organism is destroyed by heat and there is no risk from pasteurised milk. The risk of contracting bovine TB from meat is extremely small, particularly as the organism is killed readily on cooking, and no cases have ever been recorded.

Let's go huntin

[psepuncher]

I only have a little burger left

Just a heads up Jameson.

Hunters should pay close attention to the hunting synopsis, which comes out in early August, to see if they need to apply for a lottery either-sex permit.

For the 2010 season, the deadline for the either-sex permit application is Thursday, Sept. 9.

[WhiskeyWoods]

Reference was not to the disease itself but the fact that as I drive through that area during deer season to go to my own hunting woods there are empty hunting cabins and families and groups that had to pack up and leave for an undetermined amount of time (I'm sure years..) because of the lack of deer (The Gov. sharpshoots them outta helicopters).Talk to anyone that used to hunt that area or local commerce who are hurting and maybe other people will see the answer in their frustration...I have had to live in Texas and see what "deer hunting" is down there and boy what a shame how its become a rich mans sport there, its too bad there are those in this state who want to go that route....

[nonteepical]

i don't think texas and minnesota can even be compared. all the land is hundreds and thousands of acres of private ranches, been that way for a 150 years. "everything's big in texas" as the saying goes. if minnesota ever gets to be a destination trophy state, all the land that may get leased up would be privatly owned land, and would be offlimits to 99% of the hunters anyway.

[WhiskeyWoods]

You made my point exactly...you just said it...99% of people who would want to hunt then, in fact couldn't then, sooooo you would have to pay big $$$ to hunt other peoples land. Ahhh yeah I know the saying...Like I said, I lived IN Texas for more then 2 years..Let's keep MN a state where people can trophy hunt if they want (Seems SE area of state is best for that) or let people get their few deer a year for camp meat but be smart about it and not just throw 5 tags to one person a year. I could see maybe 3 or 4 tags if it's a really intensive area. Does anyone on this forum believe in a moderate stance or is it like Glen Beck Vs. Nancy Pelosi???....

[psepuncher]

Reference was not to the disease itself but the fact that as I drive through that area during deer season to go to my own hunting woods there are empty hunting cabins

too bad there are those in this state who want to go that route....

Well then why the comment about eating deer? I'm sure it was a reference to TB.

Delicious indeed.

Since 05-09 efforts were made to control the “disease” with the help of sharpshooters in key locations.

Hunting is animal control.

So what are we going to do as hunters? I try to look at hunting is the best method for managing wildlife. If they're over populated, diseased or a healthy balance. I believe hunting is a privilege, and I enjoy it, obviously you do to.

Why risk the further spread of an Infectious disease? The management actions required aggressive tactics. They were successful., with hunter participation along with sharpshooters.

Animal diseases

As far as managing a population of diseased animals. Please refrain from equating that with normal circumstances.. It’s apples and oranges, at best. If I hunted that area or ran cattle [anywhere in the state]

I would be doing my part to help control it, rather than later it’s a Right Now situation.

Please check out the MN laboratory testing facility.

As far as how many tags one takes,

What I see is a decline in hunter participation. Hopefully we can get numbers back up.

On the other hand management in an area of unhealthy populations of deer, requires hunter participation or other methods.

Peolple who choose to go a certain route as you said,....

Deer populations in many permit areas also were lower than previous years, which is a direct result of aggressive antlerless deer management.

“In many deer areas, we’ve allowed hunters to take up to five deer each, which by design has likely lowered populations toward our established goals,” Cornicelli said.

Biologically, scientifically, environmentally, humanely, ethically. What God given inalienable right is a hunter to do? To a good Steward to the land of course.

I know for a fact the DNR does a mighty fine job of managing deer,

and the rewards sure are tasty.