wader trespassing

[Farley]

Say I'm going to wader fish a lake and there is a creek inlet about 1/4 mile down the shoreline from the public landing. Is it considered trespassing if I was to wade my way down to the creek even if I was in the water the whole time. I don't even think there are any cabins or houses between the landing and the creek, it's just private property and I don't know who owns it.

Thanks

[The Chemist]

There's a public landing? Why would it be tresspassing if you stayed in the water? Look at it this way - it isn't tresspassing if you're in a boat. Those are Public waters. Now if there weren't a public access it might be a different deal.

[Bobb-o]

even though i dont think it is technically illegal, i would still try to find out who owns it, some people will raise a huge stink about things like that.

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"America is our team, and if you aren't gonna root for your team, then you should get the he!! out of the stadium."

~Southpark

[Sturgeon46]

I think it's a-ok to wade. Hope there are no docks to go over or around!

[Surface Tension]

I miss read your post Farley.
I think your fine to wade the shoreline.

[doubleUcubed]

I'll see if I can find the info. again, I just attended a seminar at the Earle Brown Center at the U of M, St. Paul and the topic was "Interaction of Ground Water and Surface Water". One of the topics dealt with what is considered the "Ordinary High Water Level" (OHWL) with respect to the boudary of waterbasins, watercourses, public waters and wetlands. (1) the OHWL is an elevation delineating the HIGHEST water level that has been maintained for a sufficient period of time to leave evidence upon the landscape, commonly the point where the natural vegetation changes from predominantly aquatic to predominatntly terrestial; (2) for watercourses, the OHWL is the elevation of the top of the bank of the channel; and (3) for reservoirs and flowages, the OHWL is the operating elevation of the normal summer pool. The OHWL is the landward extent of DNR jurisdiction over anyone who works in the bed of of the public waters or public waters wetlands (collectively referred to as public waters). 1. It is commonly used in public waters work permits and by local zoning authorities to determine lot size, structure setback, and drainfield location and elevation. It is NOT: *a runout elevation: *an average water level: *an extreme high water level: *nor an arbitrary elevation set by an individual, group or agency. It has no significance with respect to private ownership. FYI This is information from the "Guidelines for Ordinary High Water Level (OHWL) Determinations". by John Scherek and Glen Yakel. St. Paul, MN Technical Paper 11 MN DNR June 1993. Seems pretty clear in you scenario that you would be legal but I would take the advice of others and alway's try to ask for permission when in doubt. I'm sure you can find a copy of the paper I referenced at the DNR HSOforum or contact the DNR for a copy. Good Luck and be safe!

[The Chemist]

Lakes with no public access are still public waters. If you can access then by river, cannels or of plane for example you can are perfectly legal.

ST: this isn't entirely true. Remeber the guys that landed their plane on Lower Red during the winter? They lost their plane for trespassing.

I don't know the full letter of the law here but I think the only way that you can access waters on private property you must be able to access from a roadway/right of way or adjoining waters.

[MNice]

I think the red lake deal was only because of tribal laws, nothing to do with State laws.

[Guest]

Chemist,
The difference there is that they were tresspassing onto a soverign nation. The state does not have any control over that part of Red or any water in the reservation for that matter so the normal water laws do not apply.

[Nels]

I asked a similar question about hunting from water with public access:

03/03/03 04:58PM >>>
Hello,
The way I read it in the hunting Regulations, is that if a body
of water is open to canoeing (has a public access), then it would be
legal to hunt from this body of water. (As long as it is not within city
limits that prevent the discharge of firearms). Is this correct?
Would I be able to wade/canoe along the Snake River between
Cross Lake(pine city) and the St. Croix, and hunt for crows?

Response from Tim Hage@ MN DNR:

Yes you can hunt as long as you are legal to discharge a firearm in the
area and have gained legal access to the water.

[The Chemist]

I know that the Red Lake deal was because of Tribal trespassing laws. But those were "private" waters.

I guess my point was that if you can't gain access into the area without crossing private land you could be charged w/ trespassing.

[DARK30]

Last summer I stopped by a small creek to catch some Chubs. I accessed the water under the bridge and was fishing just a few yards upstream when I heard someone say..."You gonna be here long?". I said "Whats that?". The guy standing on the road above me says..."Your trespassing on my property!, Get out or I'll call the Game Warden!". I said..."His name is Scott, I don't have his number handy but I'll wait here for him".

Well, the guy left and never came back with Scott.

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[iffwalleyes]

Chemist,
Tribal laws are different than normal private law. The others are right if you can get to a lake by creek or another way other than land it is public. Also if a piece of land is flooded from rising water that becomes part of the lake and then you can access that part as well it doesn't matter about the property lines. Look at Devils Lake in ND it is a public lake and thousands of acres have been flood.

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Grip it and Rip it

IFFWalleyes
I Fish For Walleyes

[Aquaman01]

I was told that if you're feet stay below the average waterline you're good. Still might be nice to just let the dirt owner know you're there - don't wanna walk up on a meth lab, or any other stuff you don't wanna be a part of or witness to.

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Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
Peace and Fishes

[Fisher Dave]

What you described is perfectly legal.. as long there is some type of public access. It doesnt matter if its a boat launch, roadway, etc.

It is best to get permission if possible, but if thats not possible you can access any area by water so long as you entered the water on state property. Even if a person owns all the property around a lake, and there is a creek that flows into the lake that you can lawfully access at a roadway, etc, you can use the creek to legally access that lake.

I would recommend keeping a cell phone handy to call the police or DNR in the area in case you run into trouble.

[Surface Tension]

Bobbo where have we heard this one before.
I would try and contact the landowner first. Who knows he/she might let you walk on there land to get access instead of wading the creek.

If you can take a canoe down it then I would say go for it. Wading in a few inchs of water, I wouldnt push my luck.

The public landing on the lake would make no differance on wheter its legal or not. Lakes with no public access are still public waters. If you can access then by river, cannels or of plane for example you can are perfectly legal.

[Farley]

Part of the reason I ask is because I heard that if a public lake overflows onto private land and you can float a boat over the public/private boundry, you can legaly hunt/fish that private land as long as you stay in the boat and don't walk on any shoreline. Was I given a line of B.S. or is this true?

Also, I'm not talking about wading down the creek, I was going to wade the shoreline from the public landing to the creek.

[This message has been edited by Farley (edited 04-24-2003).]

[The Chemist]

I guess my reference to Red Lake was bad, sorry.

The way that I've understood the law is that if you can access the body of water by legal means(ie. right of way, public landing.) it is okay. But here's where I don't think it is legal and maybe I'm wrong. We have been looking at a property that contains a lake. The lake is entirely surrounded by land. There is no means to legally access it by land. But ST said that you could fly in, and I can't see how that would be legal. Maybe I mistook what he said. I just can't see how that would be legal.

[Blackstarluver]

You know, I was talking to my brother in law a couple years ago about peoples right to access any body of water as long as you are in the water, he replied, pp Yeah, but sometimes even though you have the law behind you, looking down the barrel of a shotgun can change your mind about your rights. He had a friend who got chased off the shoreline by someone with a gun.
scary huh? Which reminds a few years ago I read an article in fly-fisherman mag that spoke about some property owners on rivers were [PoorWordUsage]ed that the local guides were rowing their drift boats and fishing in front of the [PoorWordUsage]ed property owners. One of the owners looked up the law of the state, I don't remember which, and the archaic law said that the owner owned the river from the borders of their property out to where it would meet the owners property, from the other side in the middle of the river. I guess these people were using the law to kick out the guides and their customers. Scary huh?
JC

[doubleUcubed]

The Chemist, I believe you are correct with the land locked body of water. As I understood the conversations the other day you would need permission to access the land locked body of water from the air. No public right of way or waterway, no access. Once again the law may be on the side of the people wading/boating the waters but risking bodily harm by uninformed land owners is not worth it! Good Fishing and Good Luck!

[Surface Tension]

My property line ends half way across the a lake. I can tell for with absolute certainty that I have no control over that area thats under water. Same thing is true for rivers. If I tried to kick you off I'd be breaking the law. Mn has strict laws to protect the Sportsmen against harassment from certain groups.
The term "private lake" is generic meaning no public access. It docent mean the lake is privately owned. I'm not talking about someones homemade pond or gravel pit here.
Its plain old landlocked thus keeping 99.99 percent of the people out. Yes you can access from a plane but how often will that happen? Why fly into a cabin infested lake when you could be half way to Canada. I was just using that as an example.

[Finlander]

From the center of the road out to 33 feet is "public right of way"! No if's, and's, or but's about it!
Any road thats next to any water is indeed "accessable" as long as it's 33 feet from the center of the road.
It state law!
Don't beleive me ask the DNR!
Go Fish!!

[Blackstarluver]

Well if the public right of way is 33 feet from the center of the street then the city/county should mow my front lawn and resurface my driveway!
Wouldn't that be nice?
JC

how come I have 2 post# 47?

[This message has been edited by Blackstarluver (edited 04-25-2003).]

[Chris Haley]

Make sure you know what kind of road you are dealing with before you assume you have 33ft, some dirt roads only have 16ft and some dirt roads are deemed cartpaths and have no right of way past the surface. Some highways are wider and are given more right of way.

[Sturgeon46]

This same sort of issue often comes up when we fish under and around people's docks and inside marinas. This is all public property and land owners don't have the right to tell you you can't flip under their docks. Marinas too often try to limit your access.