What are your thoughts on........

[Agronomist_at_IA]

IA---- This big lake you talk about was it in SD? I know a couple guys that just went up there for a fishing trip......but its been hella slow up here thats for sure....

No, it wasn't in South Dakota. I'll be headed to Waubay in about 2 weeks though.

[LightningBG]

I sure hope there is more to a guided trip than a couple hot spots.

I think I would enjoy the ability to mark the spots with consent and would shy away from a guide that prohibited it. But at the same time, personally I know that spots change quickly and a set of coordinates isn't a golden goose, so it might not do me any good.

Maybe some of the guides should bring people out to the spots with a hood over there face, that'll teach those copy cats. (Kidding of course)

I would chuckle if I ever saw a disclaimer stating:

The following items are prohibited while on the trip:

GPS units

depth finders

watches or cell phones

camera's

lake charts

sun tables

moon tables

star charts

compasses or any general ability to tell direction

the ability to line up cabin X with cabin Y

the ability to identify tree species

Thank you and enjoy your trip"

Then in the summer they could just bolt an ice house onto a pontoon, cut a couple holes in the floor and fish your heart out.

[MnShooter]

pm me when before you go....i am down south of there but have a buddy up there fishing daily and been doing very good!....

[jigginjim]

We operate a guide service to make money. There alot of guides that will not allow GPS units in the boat. If you what to go fish a guides spots why go out in the boat? Just pay for his spots up front, then go fish those areas on your own.

Fishing big waters, guides work areas away from the norm, spending alot of time and their own money to find that spot on the spot. Then to have someone mark the area without doing any work, just to fish that same spot week after week, that would bug me. I had a lady call for a guide trip, stating she was sending her son & hubby out for fathers day. She also said she would be booking another trip 2 weeks later. We went out, I showed them great spots, what, and why I fished that area the way we did. Her son caught his largest northern and bass of his life. Hubby also caught several big bass, a few nice (5-8lb)pike, and good eater size walleyes, which I filleted for them to take home. Only to never get another call from them, but to see them 3 weeks fishing the walleye area, with a rental boat. I even cut my price for them as they promised another trip.

SUCKER!!! After that I really question, if I will even allow cell phones in the boat. Same as a GPS. I spent many weeks and alot of gas money, to find out of the way areas.

So, for the guys thinking thats what I should be doing. Then I will pay you for each of your fishing spots. Or why don't we just start posting all gps locations on here.

NO SPECIAL SPOTs THEN.

[grasshopper]

I won't pay for a guide. If I can't find fish myself I guess I'm out of luck.

[harvey lee]

I at times hire a guide to learn a few things about the lake and maybe a few tips for fishing said lake.

If I go out with a guide and learn a few things, the catch that day is secondary.

[jigginjim]

harvey lee, That is one of things I always try doing on all trips. Does not matter what lake, but for people that don't have boats, I even try to point out areas they can reach for the beach. As others have fish may hold on that stump today but could be totally bare of even minnows 2days from now.

Many of my clients are from out of town, I have several guys call me the next time their in town.

[Kodiak]

just go back later and look where you drilled and mark it??

[aanderud]

I would not GPS a guide's spots right there and then, but you can be darn tootin that I'd be paying attention to where we were and look at the GPS and DNR maps later. I'd want to know not only the piece of structure that's directly underneath us that day, but also what's nearby, how this spot and this time of year relates to other areas that the fish might be using either later or earlier in the year. Fish are always on the move, and seasonal movements will take them off the spot you just fished...knowing how that spot fits in with the rest of the lake will be a help for next time you go out.

I at times hire a guide to learn a few things about the lake and maybe a few tips for fishing said lake.

If I go out with a guide and learn a few things, the catch that day is secondary.

I agree that the catch on any given day does not dictate the 'success' of the day completely. Trust me, I've had plenty of fun days out fishing where I don't catch fish, skunkings are my forte. But that information you learned -- the tactics, tips, etc -- you gotta agree that in general, that information is worth more if you know that it catches fish!

If you're "learning" from someone who isn't putting you on fish, how much faith can you put in the things you learned from him? Any information you did gain about how and where to catch fish on that lake under those conditions, quite honestly, is suspect at best. You very well might have information that caught him fish under different conditions (maybe last week? different weather? different location?) It might have just been a bad luck day, but put simply, if the ONLY information you have on the lake comes from the outing you had with the guide who didn't help you catch any fish, then you can't really trust that information. It'd be hard to have a lot of confidence using those same tips and tactics yourself if you came back under the same conditions the next day.

Furthermore, whether the information learned is a primary objective or a secondary objective to catching fish also really depends on what body of water you're talking about. If I go fishing 8 miles offshore from Ixtapa, Mexico, but I live in Minnesota, then this is more than likely a once in a lifetime thing. Do I want to learn tactics for fishing there in the future? Sure that's all good stuff to pass the time...but most likely, I will never be back. In cases like this, I am there with the primary objective to see some mongo sailfish!

[Northlander]

In my opinion if your getting a guide so you can GPS the spots you fish your in it for the wrong reasons.

I would make sure I told the guide you wanted some spots to catch fish if thats what your after. This is done often when people go on new lakes, get a guide for a day or 2, and then fish them spots all week. If a guide knows this ahead of time thats cool.

On small lakes its not hard to figure out where you were anyways.

I guess I have always liked finding my own fish and I wont follow boats around if Im not catching fish. I would rather do the work. Thats me though.

[kwiggy]

This reminds me of the people who take photos at weddings next to the professional photographer. The photographer does all the work getting everybody arranged and brings the lights and knows how to work the equipment and etc... Somebody comes along and snaps a bunch of photos so they don't have to pay for the pro photos.

I agree, let's all post our GPS points so their are no hidden spots. BTW I am not a photographer or a guide, but I think people should be respectful of what their skills bring to the table.

[KG243]

I think that there is a lot more to going out with a guide then getting to know his spots, for me it is a learning experince to be able to pick his brain so you can become a better fisherman. Instead of a gps I owuld like to take a digitial voice recorder a tape the lecture!

[HeavyD]

The good guides don't care. True story: Was up at Rainy Lake this winter during a major downturn in action and ran into one of the local guides while filling up our sleds in the morning. He looked knowledgeable so I asked him what he thought we should do for the day. He proceeded to take us into the TB lodge and pulled out his 21" Lowrance with LM chip and showed us every spot on the lake he would try, where he was putting his permanent, how the 5 rivers converge, when the best times were at each location during the year, the proper use of feeding shelves and much more all in a matter of 30 minutes. He was booked for the next 2 years, understandably so, so this was definitely not a sales pitch, just a friendly guide who loved helping others catch fish. Some of you probably know the Little Canadian (SM) and are not surprised by his actions, but I was blown away and totally impressed. I now have more spots to fish on Rainy than I will likely ever be able to.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

The good guides don't care. True story: Was up at Rainy Lake this winter during a major downturn in action and ran into one of the local guides while filling up our sleds in the morning. He looked knowledgeable so I asked him what he thought we should do for the day. He proceeded to take us into the TB lodge and pulled out his 21" Lowrance with LM chip and showed us every spot on the lake he would try, where he was putting his permanent, how the 5 rivers converge, when the best times were at each location during the year, the proper use of feeding shelves and much more all in a matter of 30 minutes. He was booked for the next 2 years, understandably so, so this was definitely not a sales pitch, just a friendly guide who loved helping others catch fish. Some of you probably know the Little Canadian (SM) and are not surprised by his actions, but I was blown away and totally impressed. I now have more spots to fish on Rainy than I will likely ever be able to.

I'd love to have a guide like this. Or a guide that would try to teach you something while out there. I was just really disapointed that for $500 all we got was a bucket of have dead minnows & a shrug of the shoulders when we asked him what a person should look for to find fish.

[Chris Haley]

"You're paying for spots"

REALLY???? As a Guide you're paying for a day of fishing with rods you would probably wouldn't buy, a boat you probably wouldn't buy, electronics you probably wouldn't buy. Years of knowledge that if you need to have my spots to catch fish you haven't learned a thing on your own. Fishing the techniques that works best at that time. Patterns that the fish are living out at that time of year. Your kids and your wives hooks baited for them. Wildlife on the shore as well as in the air, that you maybe have not seen before. An eagle that is starting it's circular decent to grab a fish 50 yards from your boat. History about the water system you're on. There are more things that a guide brings to the table than just GPS coordinates.

We as guides have spots on spots. You are paying for the experience, not my spots that took years to accumulate.

So if you think you're paying paying for my spots. What about the group I have tomorrow? I shouldn't take them there because YOU bought my spot yesterday?

You have obviously never been with a guide. My advice to you is do some research and go and find your own spots, since you obviously have no clue why most people hire guides.

[HeavyD]

I totally agree with the "spots on spots" deal. As one who has forked over thousands on guides to learn as many bodies of water as possible, I can attest to the work the guides have done for us just to get us on those special fish. I've been within arms length of other fishing the same spot and not catching fish, knowing that it was because our guide knew his stuff and that others there had paid him days earlier to show them what he was now showing us. I have also paid guides up to $200 just for their knowledge and GPS coordinates, about $100 for each. I have gone out on a limb with some of my guide picks, but I have been pleased every time and definitely came away smarter than I started. Then I go and lose that knowledge at the local taverns trying to find even more spots!! That stuff is priceless.

[Chris Haley]

Thanks HeavyD!

There are plenty of "community" spots on any body of water. Those I could care less about if you want to mark them down. It's the ones that are tougher to find. This used to be an even bigger issue than it is now. Once Lakemaster came on scene, NO MORE SECRET SPOTS. If you know what you're looking for, you can go out on any water system and find just about every special spot that only guides and hardcore fishing locals knew about before.

But wait a minute. That would require a GPS and a lakemaster chip, and the knowledge of what you're looking for. If you had those three ingredients, you wouldn't need a guide after all would ya.

Anyway, I'm done now. It just rubs me wrong when people spout off about how if they hire me I should name my first born after them. Guiding is a tough enough business to begin with. What most people never think about is how your guide is up loading his boat and truck up at 5am (your trip does not start till 7am) Going to the bait shop and spending $25-$50 on bait.(that comes right off the top of his fee) Putting $50 in gas in the boat(depending on how much moving you do that could be all used up in a day) Comes off the top.

Launch the boat, and get everything organized so you have as much room as possible. Drive to your resort or wherever you decided to meet. Fish for 8hrs. Take you back and as you are heading to your cabin to enjoy a cold one and relax, I'm cleaning your fish. (sometimes after a very good day this could be an hour+)

Go back and put boat on the trailer. Go home and re-spool the rod that your son or maybe someone else that hasn't fished that much messed up beyond untangling. Get rods ready for tomorrows trip since they want to fish a different species.

So now you've paid your guide $320 for two people for eight hours. The guide has 12+ hours in his day and spent $75 of that fee on gas and bait.

You do the math and then tell me how you think you are entitled to my spots for $320

[Myrt]

I agree and disagree with you Chris. My wishes for guided services look like they would be met by you, the how, the why, to everthing from technique to picking spots for that day, to reasoning on equipment, etc. I personally do not need a gps with me for that type of service. Without the why, the how, teaching conversation,etc., I'm just paying to catch fish, and then I would want the spots saved for me to go back and learn the why and how myself, because just like there are different level of customers, there also are different levels of guides, as there are in any industry.

So I believe the best approach is good communication, make the call, ask what to expect for the service and tell what you are looking for, and the professional relay back the same. I would never want to pay someone just for the spots(marking them) unless that is really all they are offering! I have bought equipment a guide used after he explained why, so I think if you get the whole experience it is woth it, and worth it without gps!

[LightningBG]

So now you've paid your guide $320 for two people for eight hours. The guide has 12+ hours in his day and spent $75 of that fee on gas and bait.

You do the math and then tell me how you think you are entitled to my spots for $320

for $20+ per hour, I could think of worse things to be doing than fishing.

Spending money on bait and gas isn't "coming off the top". Those are business expenses. Those costs should be built into your fee. If you want zero overheard, become a dog walker (opps, but then you'll have to buy shoes).

If you're upset about only getting $320 for a day, then raise your price or get out of it. You can FemaleDog about your customers all day long, but they are your lifeblood, you work for them. If you don't want anyone marking your spots, fair enough, but you can expect that someone with the same locating expertise and equipment is going to be able to charge more or have higher volume if they allow marking.

It could be worse. Someone could skip paying the guide and drive around the lake looking for guides and mark the spots that way.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

Chris I think you're miss understanding me. I made the simple statement asking what people's thought were on GPS marking a guides spots when he takes you out. I never did or planned on doing it. I just wanted peoples opinions on it. I was stating in my previous post that the guide in which I paid for was a huge disapointment. Reason being is that he was unwilling to really teach a person anything about fishing. Now I didn't expect an 8hr class a day on fishing, but it would have been nice if he would have showed a person a few things to look for or a few tricks.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

Thanks HeavyD!

So now you've paid your guide $320 for two people for eight hours. The guide has 12+ hours in his day and spent $75 of that fee on gas and bait.

You do the math and then tell me how you think you are entitled to my spots for $320

Sorry but your not going to get any pitty from me being a guide and making $245 a day. I have customers this last year that got up at 4 A.M. to milk cows, and got done at 8 P.M. at night 7 days a week. With a small lunch break. This year they lost $1,000,000 basicly producing the milk on your table. Did they owe you a cheap milk? Everytime I poor a bowl of milk for my cereal I think of the poor SOB.

Do I think guides owe me GPS spot because I paid them....no never said they did or wanted them. I do believe that for the money being spent the guide should try to educate you a little, so when you do go out fishing on your own a person would have a better idea on what to look for when you go back home to fish.

[fishersofmen]

$1,200 a week to fish.......sounds like heaven.

[CDT]

Agronomist, I am going to guess the lake you are suggesting was in North Dakota. This is based on the fact nearly the exact same thing happened to me. We hired the guide (a well know guide service in the area) and the first day we went to one place and never moved the rest of the day. He couldn't get some of his equipment running so we ended up basically hauling some of his people on the two ATV's we brought. I think among 8 or 10 people we caught 2 fish. We told the guide we didn't want his services any more and settled up the bill. The next day we went off by ourselves. He took the rest of the group to a small lake 30 miles away and caught some tiny perch. We started drilling holes on the lake he was s'posed to guide us on and ended up nearly limiting out on jumbo perch and then caught a 41" pike in the process. That night he asked where we caught the fish and we told him. When I got home I read on his HSOforum that "good numbers of perch" were being caught in the spot we told him about. I have decided no more "guides" for me. I will say I go to Lake of the woods and use a service there for using either a sleeper house or day shack but I feel this is different than a guide service. Those experiences have all been positive. I guess there is a lot of room for ethics on both sides when using a guide.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

Agronomist, I am going to guess the lake you are suggesting was in North Dakota. This is based on the fact nearly the exact same thing happened to me. We hired the guide (a well know guide service in the area) and the first day we went to one place and never moved the rest of the day. He couldn't get some of his equipment running so we ended up basically hauling some of his people on the two ATV's we brought. I think among 8 or 10 people we caught 2 fish. We told the guide we didn't want his services any more and settled up the bill. The next day we went off by ourselves. He took the rest of the group to a small lake 30 miles away and caught some tiny perch. We started drilling holes on the lake he was s'posed to guide us on and ended up nearly limiting out on jumbo perch and then caught a 41" pike in the process. That night he asked where we caught the fish and we told him. When I got home I read on his HSOforum that "good numbers of perch" were being caught in the spot we told him about. I have decided no more "guides" for me. I will say I go to Lake of the woods and use a service there for using either a sleeper house or day shack but I feel this is different than a guide service. Those experiences have all been positive. I guess there is a lot of room for ethics on both sides when using a guide.

Yep sounds like you must have had the same guide that I got up there. It's my first bad experiance that I've had with a guide/outfitter though. In the past I've used Chad Benson, Raveling Outdoors, and Kelly P on Upper Red and Nodak's at Winni and had extremely good results with all of them. Also that Doug guy who runs Sportsman's Cove over in Waubay is one heck of guy for just having a bait shop. If he ever did guided fishing trip package at Waubay I'd jump at it in a heartbeat. I think the most diappointing thing about it all is that when I got back and was talking with a cousin that had gone up there a few years ago who used a different guide service had a very good experiance & learned a lot about finding out how to find spots that hold fish.

[thrax]

I don't guide but am considering starting, thats a whole different story. I am particularly careful with anything I do, and often "swear in" my own buddies that they will not speak of what we were doing or where we were doing it. In the area I live in, this stuff spreads like wildfire. Its much worse in the winter than the summer also IMO. I have had previously unfished areas become monster villages because I told one wrong person. I teach constantly in my boat, and love doing it. That doesn't mean I need every person in the county to know about it. If I was guiding and had paying clients, thoughts would change. First time clients could get different instructions or permission than returning clients whom I know and trust and like. Thats not to say I would sabotage a trip, but there are certain things that good fisherman just shouldn't give up for any price. I would think that respectful return clients would do better than brash first timers who sometimes might present themselves totally the wrong way and with bad attitudes. Maybe I'll get the chance to figure this all out on my own soon enough!