8 - Point Restrictions Meeting In Perham

[buckhunter21]

Thats exactly where I am right in between Almora and Henning and I know of thousands of acres of public land around the area and right now only a few sections see a fair amount of pressure but mainly just during firearms. I only hunt public land during archery season a little anyways otherwise its all private, but I would much rather have a few more hunters in the area with APRs than fewer hunters without it. Im not gonna get my hopes too high on seeing it in effect this year but it sure would be great if we did.

[vister]

was that buck in your avatar taken over there? nice rack on a rather young deer!! head a few miles east to bertha, and thats the area i reference to.

[skee0025]

I'm not big on APR's, but think it's going to happen. If it does get done I would like to see regs in place limiting the number of outfitters allowed and a limit on the amount of land they can lock up. I would hate to see the everyman priced out of hunting in the state. There are downsides to more and bigger bucks.

[buckhunter21]

Nope that deer was taken up by Bemidji on my cousins land. Wish I could have aged that deer but my dog got ahold of the jawbone one night that was sitting on the workbench and took that option away but im sure it wasnt more than 3.5. The land my cousin owns is 600 acres that he started managing a few years ago and has cooperation from all of the neighbors, and that buck was the first of 4 trophy caliber deer taken off just his property this year. Just goes to show if you have a big enough chunk of land and have a few landowners passing up small bucks you can have some pretty good hunting after only a year or two. We have taken 2 nice deer off of our 80 the last 3 years but really have to work for them by passing up over 10 or 20 young ones every year. Most of the area is passing up the young ones but those 2 or 3 groups that dont really do take a toll on it when they are shooting 3 or 4 forks every year.

[96trigger]

I don't think you will be the only area in the state that goes APR. I think if APR gets implemented, it will be in a couple of areas. Hard to say if it will be next year or not, but I think 5 years from now, deer hunting in this state will be pretty different for some people.

[luckey]

buckhunter21 is right, passing up small bucks can and does show results (bigger bucks) in a short time (1-2 years).

[Musky Buck]

Agreed luckey, it's the same theory when you release lets say a muskie, well it's going to likely get bigger same as a young buck it's likely to get bigger. But, there are quite a few that when they see antlers they lose their composure. I think there's a lot of guys out there to that think well next year I won't shoot a small buck and then well for sure the next year I'll hold off etc. Then we have the tagging issues like got a buck find a tag then I'll hunt just for the big buck now that I got one down. I wish our regs said instead of you can only tag 1 buck per calendar year to you can only shoot 1 buck per calendar year. I'd like to maybe see a bucks only hunt and an antlerless/buck hunt like 1983. Give the bucks only guys a few extra days to hunt and let the brown down gang have at the 2nd weekend since there are so many of us that won't take an antlerless anyway. Just some random not thought out to well thoughts.

[00rowe]

I wouldn't compare fishing to deer hunting at all, a 50" musky or 30" walleye may be 20+ years old, a "mature" buck is commonly thought of as a 3 year old. With that thought in mind think how quickly "we" can turn our young overall average bucks into mature bucks. NO buck hunting for a couple of years followed by a "draw" buck tag system after that would turn MN into a top trophy producing state again. I can easily agree to the 8 point minimum but there are some draw backs, a mature 8 pointer with a busted off browtine would be a 7 pointer and therefore illegal, not too many of us get that good of look at a deer, especially if hunting in cover. I completely agree with changing the party hunting laws, at least for bucks, once you've shot an antlered deer NO more, maybe a few guys would think twice before shooting that opening morning forkhorn, with the possibility that a bigger buck may come by and then you legally couldn't shoot it. Here's a few ideas for buck seasons:

1. Pick your season: bow, rifle, muzzleloader ONLY.

2. Every other year buck tags, even years for those born on even years, etc.

3 if you register a buck, no buck hunting the following year.

If we were to implement any of these, then we could JACK up the non resident buck tags inline with the other "trophy" producing states and increase the revenue for the DNR to inforce the new regulation(s) and protect our resource.

Mike

[hockeybc69]

I am not a fan of regs limiting getting buck tags on consecutive years.

Let people hunt bucks, but put some limit on what can be harvested.

One thought that came up for me. I dont like the idea of antler point restrictions for bow. Let archery be as it is now I say.

Go after firearms and muzzy restricitions on bucks.

[buckhunter21]

As far as the 8 point rule I dont think it would actually be 8 points, I think the reg would be worded at least 4 points on one side, which would give you a little more time to shoot instead of worrying if it has 4 more points on the other side too. So you could shoot a 7 point or even a 6 if it had 4 on one side and 2 on the other.

Im not a big fan of getting a buck tag every other year either as long as people only take one a year and cannot party hunt there will be plenty around. I do think that if hunting in this state ever becomes what it could become, that they only give out a set amount of non-res buck tags.

Even though archery hunting is much harder than with a firearm I still think it should be a season wide APR otherwise all its going to do is fire up all the people against APRs who will complain that the archery hunters get their way on everthing. It will spare some controversy if nothing else.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Even though archery hunting is much harder than with a firearm I still think it should be a season wide APR otherwise all its going to do is fire up all the people against APRs who will complain that the archery hunters get their way on everthing. It will spare some controversy if nothing else.

Easy for you to say with that buck you have in your avatar with the bow laying on it.

[vister]

anyone ever look into applying for a non-res tag in iowa?!!! EXPENSIVE! takes two years of applying, at a minimum to get drawn, 50 bucks per preference point, two minimum, non res license, small game license as well, mandatory i dont know why, a few other fees, for a grand total of 660 bucks!! oofta!! and its 140 in MN overthecounter!!

anyways, i feel the only people against AR are true meat hunters. and i'd about guarantee that almost every hunter would like to shoot bigger bucks. its just no one wants to be told what they can and cant shoot! heck, last summer i caught a 47" musky my first time fishing the beasts! thats a trophy fish in most fishermans eyes! but the lake had a 50" minimum. i had no problem releasing it, after many pics though! and I had to release it, by law. why is it such a big deal that racks would have to have so many points/side before you could shoot it, when its a law? I mean, if i see a deer, i have to identify it is indeed a doe before i shoot, so i dont mistake it having spikes! I think AR would make us more safety, and ethical hunters, by having to identify your target! i'm sure i'll be hung out to dry by stating the above

[hockeybc69]

You cant use fishing as a parrallel to this subject.

You can choose to get a replica of it if you like.

You cant shoot a huge 3x3 buck and let it go and get a replica of it because it didnt meet the 4 pt APR requirement(if thats what was in place).

[vister]

You most definetely can use fishing as a parallel to this topic. When the dnr enforces slot limits, they are telling us what we can and can't keep. How is that different than being told what we can and can't shoot? Hunting with ar's is the same as sight fishing when panfish are in shallow spawning. Before everyone blows up at me, I'm looking at this issue from a regulation standpoint. What we would/are allowed to do

[00rowe]

Vister, the reason I don't like to compare deer and fish is strictly the age structure, I hear what you are saying about the regulations though. The biggest buck I have shot was a running broadside 150 yds buck that was obviously mature and had very long points, well 2 of them at least 12" and 9", g-2's and 3's, however his brows are only 3", with the 4 point restriction I would have had to pass on a very easy shot at a very nice 140"+ 4x4, with the 4 point restriction. I am curious as to how many guys/gals, would hunt if they were not able to shoot a buck? Is this why the early anterless season is/was a bust? I participated when it was in the area I hunted and would not have felt bad at all if I saw a huge buck I was unable to shoot.

Iowa's big price tag on their deer tags is because there is an opportunity at a world class buck, and people are excited to pay it when they get drawn. Minnesota isn't even close as far as a draw for nonresidents, and we have 100x more public land to hunt on, but we shoot all our bucks before they have a chance to grow up to "Iowa" size deer. The deer have what it takes, we just don't allow them to get there.

The amount of deer taken each year illegally is ridiculous as well, which is why I would like to see expensive nonresident tags to help pay for stricter enforcement. Why not increase fines to actually "scare" poachers and take away hunting rights.

Mike

[Jameson]

You most definetely can use fishing as a parallel to this topic....

Yep, most spear fisherman just love slot limits (sarcasm). Look on most slot lakes and you will see very few spearfisherman. Why? Because they are afraid of accidentally breaking the law.

[alwaysonthemove]

I Personaly let all small bucks walk. I think that a anlter restriction has its positives and nagatives. Especially with the younger crowd. Times are defintely changing. We used to keep all walleyes now there are slots all over.

I would really like to see a application for buck tags first. This will really get people going.

I would Really like to see the cross tagging come to an end.

These are my personal beliefs.

[vister]

yep, we're on the same page rowe. you're speaking age structure, and im speaking regs. but we know each others points. a fish of any species can take anywhere from 5-20 years to reach trophy class, as for deer...well, that only takes 3-5 years, typically. most bucks seen are 1.5-2.5 years old. give them 2 or three years, and now we're talkin! maybe if no one wants AR, then how about closing deer hunting to anterless deer only with firearms for a year or two. would that make everyone happy, mad, or what. I know because we've done are part, and continue to, id be for a change like that. id rather take a deer with my bow or smoker anyways, especially a buck!

a rifle just makes it easier to put meat in the freezer. i love party hunting during the rifle season, but success with smoke or stick and string is much more fulfilling for me! and the only deer i shot this year was with a rifle

[Musky Buck]

Just thinking out loud, thinking like a few uncles who own large tracts of land,they each own a section, let's say neither can take a buck I could picture them posting their land tight, not allowing anyone bow or otherwise to hunt it,their kids have their own properties and going out of state those years to hunt a buck waiting on the next season when they can buck hunt again. There would lie 1,280 acres of land being hunted every other year. Our yearling bucks really get hammered. As the saying goes in the Leaf river bottom Let em GO so he can grow.

[Musky Buck]

Just thinking about the Perham meeting. I think it's worth a try. I don't think it would change a lot of us already. Fawns and does and larger bucks would be targets. It's already in my area to the point that inferior bucks are doing 90% of the breeding anyway. The bachelor herds in the summer are 75% or more yearlings anyway. It's just the buck fawns that survived the previous year with a few stragglers that are 2 1/2's and the occassional older one. It used to be most farms in my area had a better age distribution, scouting nowaday reveals far fewer decent bucks. I do think area 240 from highway 71 to Ottertail would be a good area to try it in. There's already a good chunk of the hunters doing this. No one can guarantee where the big ones will be come opening day so the wealth will be spread out. We have so much opportunity now with 25 gun days and 100+ bow days, those yearling bucks which is most of the buck pop. need a breather.

[luckey]

00rowe has a point. Under APR what exactly constatutes a "point". Does it have to be 3" or better, do you have to be able to hang a ring on it? What is proposed or talked about here? I am all for letting small bucks grow, but I don't think APR is the solution. Too many issues not the least is that a lot of 1.5 year olds have 4 points on a side.

[Musky Buck]

I hear that luckey, about 20% of the yearlings I see would technically have 4 on a side. However, I think a lot of parties would move to boy you better be 100% sure and a lot of hunters in 240 would say leave all the yearlings alone, our group of 24 hunters adopted this 15 years ago. Sure there isn't a buck for each of us anymore, but the 6-10 we do get each year are quality animals soon to be replaced by the 2.5's we didn't shoot. Lob in some doeheads and we're doing fine, we're not crying about having to fill our tags, 27 dollars isn't much of a set back to anyone and if it is don't buy a tag. Bring some kind of change on that will allow fair chase for all, but establish a more mature buck ratio. It's scary that not so many years ago we had a 2 day rifle season, 4 day and or 6 day, now we get 9 days with a rifle to hunt less deer that seem to be getting a lot younger. I think 4A and 4B was the right formula that kept most happy.

[00rowe]

I would support APR, but I still don't think that will help as much as restricting the amount of buck tags. I haven't shot a buck in 10 yrs, I have however passed on 50+ bucks/opportunities in that timeframe with 4 points on a side. I think it'll make some guys shoot the first "legal" buck they see. I don't think the 4 point restriction has really helped the Colorado elk herd, it still has the highest elk population and the least amount of "trophy" bulls. I am extremely suprised that the "meat hunters" are so unwilling to giveup their buck tag, even if they can still "fill there freezers." I thought that was traditional Minnesotans' battlecry, "we're not trophy hunters, we're meat hunters." Yet meat hunting apparantly isn't any "fun" if you can't bag your "trophy."

Sorry about all the quotations. It just seems everyone want it all without giving up anything. Does the DNR have short term plans, I know the Colorado DOW has 5 and 10 year management plans, I can't see why we couldn't implement some type of short term plans, and if they aren't liked, change them back. It seems so simple with deer maturing so quickly (3 years) that there would be huge (racks) returns in a short amount of time.

Sorry about the rambling, kind of aimless thoughts scattered about.

Mike

[buckhunter21]

Im not sure if APRs are the best way to go either but as of right now I cant think of anything better except everyone deciding on their own to pass up smaller bucks. As for the guys that will shoot the first legal bucks with 4 points on a side, these are more than likely the same guys who will shoot the first bucks they see without regulations so at least we know the 4s and 6s will have to be passed on. And on the other side the guys who are passing up deer right now waiting for a mature are more than likely still going to pass up these smaller 8s and 10s until they reach at least 3.5+ old. I totally agree with at least trying something for a few years and if it doesnt work switch it back but as I am finding out on another post most people have their minds made up on where they stand and I dont think either side is going to change their opinion so I guess its up to the dnr to make the next move and decide where we go from here. Not a whole lot we can do I guess but stick to our guns and hope more people will follow suit.

[hockeybc69]

I am curious how many people would stand behind an APR with all weapons, or is anyone more focused on the rifle/shotguns and maybe even muzzy?

At 41 years old, I have not yet shot a buck with a bow. Passed many over the years, and surely wouldnt be in favor of restrictions on the bow.

I firmly believe in leaving archery "open". The archers arent putting the hurt on quality bucks, and its challenging enough to start with.

Also curious what peoples thoughts are with APR and youth. 18 years old and over APR rules maybe?